Lots of eschatological (last things) discussion these days. About the 2nd coming, the final days, the rapture, tribulation, etc. But once in a while someone actually uses the term "heaven" to mean the afterlife..so when do you think 'heaven' begins and why?
About heaven..
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Here's a scripture to consider.
But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. Eph 2:4-7 (NLT)
It has already begun! Heaven is a realm. The kingdom of heaven is a state of being in the spiritual reality.
When Paul says we are seated in heavenly places, that is something that can be experienced, seen and walked in. We are to set our minds on this plane of reality.
Of course one must be born from above in order to see and partake in heavenly things!
Maran atha
goodshepard55
New Member
Prentis
New Member
Our Lord Jesus made it so simple that a lot of folks struggle to believe it...
Matt 22:29-32
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
(KJV)
Some people are funny. You can put a brand new perfectly working frig up for garage sale and put a sign on it saying 'Free', and people will think something's wrong with it and be reluctant to buy it. But put a price on it and they'll buy it asking little or no questions. Those same folks treat some Scripture in God's Word that are so simple, they pass over them as if they're too good to be true.
Matt 22:29-32
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
(KJV)
Some people are funny. You can put a brand new perfectly working frig up for garage sale and put a sign on it saying 'Free', and people will think something's wrong with it and be reluctant to buy it. But put a price on it and they'll buy it asking little or no questions. Those same folks treat some Scripture in God's Word that are so simple, they pass over them as if they're too good to be true.
Heaven obviousley exists right now, but are there any humans there yet? No pmostl likely not, they'll ge tthere after the aslt juedgement. The same I think goes for Hell.
I do also believe in Purgatory though, and I think that people get sent there once they die and are then allowed into Heaven on the alst judgement. Purgatory is for believers so heathens don't go their, they just fall asleep and wake up for the alst jdugement where they get sent o Hwell.
I do also believe in Purgatory though, and I think that people get sent there once they die and are then allowed into Heaven on the alst judgement. Purgatory is for believers so heathens don't go their, they just fall asleep and wake up for the alst jdugement where they get sent o Hwell.
revturmoil
New Member
There are humans who passsed on in heaven. They rose with Christ at his resurrection. All who have died in Christ and since Christ are now in paradise waiting for "The Day of the Lord."
discipleHelovestoo
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- May 14, 2011
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i vote 'other' because i believe we enter into heaven - life eternal - the instant we are reborn in Christ. to me, the concept of 'heaven' has little to do with the mansions He has for us to live in, or the perfect weather, health, etc. that most people think of when they think of 'heaven' - heaven is simply knowing God - the greater the degree I know Him now the greater the degree i experience 'heaven':
John 17:3 KJVR
(3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:3 KJVR
(3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Well alrgiht, there are those old Testiment prophets which Christ brought up to Heaven possibly from Sheol, but the general rule of thumb I think is that Heaven and Hell coem after the final judgement, purgatory is before and Limbo, that coudl be bfore or after I suppsoe.
Now, but it's a little bit more complicated than that.
God is timeless, and he exists outside of this plain of existence, as does heaven which we know to be in his presence. I think any doubt and many doctrines about heaven can be understood much more clearly when we don't try to frame it by our concept of time. That's why I believe the smiles at death and verses like Psalm 23 happen.
God is timeless, and he exists outside of this plain of existence, as does heaven which we know to be in his presence. I think any doubt and many doctrines about heaven can be understood much more clearly when we don't try to frame it by our concept of time. That's why I believe the smiles at death and verses like Psalm 23 happen.
That's fine as long as you still recognize God's Heavenly Abode as a real place, and that we still await the redemption of our body like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 8 and 1 Cor.15.
The reason I mention that distinction is because how some are being wrongly taught that this world how it is today already is the future "thousand years" reign of Christ on earth per Rev.20. The world system being setup now on earth by men has nothing to do with Christ's future Kingdom on earth that is yet to come. When we put on Christ Jesus, we become strangers upon this earth, waiting for our redemption to Him. But one day, Christ is going to return and rule over everyone on this earth, and that's when His reign over all things will officially begin, for He must reign until all His enemies are put under His feet.
Yes indeed, I agree Shep.
Paul also said, "Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God's right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your [fn] life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory". Col. 3:1-4
Just a quick question.. I agree with you that God exist outside of time. Do you believe that Heaven is timeless as well?
Joshua David
Of course, just like God is, for Heaven is His Abode. Wherever God's Eden is, that's where His Heavenly Abode is.
Do we only become timeless when our spirits are transformed by the Holy Spirit, or are our spirits timeless by God-given nature? It would be pretty much like heaven entering our hearts; becoming Eden-hearted.
That would be equating the creation with the creator, and assigning a divine attribute (existing outside of space and time) to a creation. Heaven was created. It has a beginning. I believe that the current Heaven that exists today will have an ending, but whether or not that you agree that Heaven will end, scripture proves that it has a beginning.
Gen 1:1 [sup]1[/sup] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
[font="Verdana][size="3"]Since it has a beginning, I believe that it exists inside space and time. God, being the creator, is the only thing that exists outside of space and time. There are no scriptures that suggest or even imply that Heaven exists outside of space and time that I am aware of. Perhaps you could share some.[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="3"]
[/size][/font]
[font="Verdana][size="3"]Joshua David[/size][/font]
Since that's the viewpoint you mean, then...
Isa 66:1-2
1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool: where is the house that ye build unto Me? and where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things hath Mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at My word.
(KJV)
Matt 5:34
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
(KJV)
Matt 23:22
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by Him That sitteth thereon.
(KJV)
So that begs the question, just how long has God been sitting upon His Throne, which the Scripture says is His Heaven?
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Choir Loft
My vote was for "other" because the question does not provide a succinct definition of heaven.
The usual answer is that heaven begins when life ends.
Pretty short and sweet except that the whole notion of what heaven is - leaves much to be desired.
The Qur'an states that there are seven heavens.
The Bible states that there are three.
Secular philosophy acknowledges one - if it acknowledges any metaphysical reality at all.
Biblically speaking the physical life or earth where we all live and plug in our computers is heaven #1.
So I suppose the question of when heaven begins might be answered as;"at birth".
The place where the throne of God resides and that place where the saved are destined is #3.
Heaven #2 is the spiritual plane that is experienced by those near death accounts you've read about.
It is also the place where all sorts of spooky critters move about and perform their invisible mischief.
Back to the original question of when heaven begins - if one is in Christ one experiences #1 & #2 simultaneously.
A guarantee of ultimately living in #3 is also provided.
If a guarantee by the Almighty has any currency in life then I suppose one could rightly say that when one is saved,
they have snagged the brass ring of all the heavens in a single moment of time.
The usual answer is that heaven begins when life ends.
Pretty short and sweet except that the whole notion of what heaven is - leaves much to be desired.
The Qur'an states that there are seven heavens.
The Bible states that there are three.
Secular philosophy acknowledges one - if it acknowledges any metaphysical reality at all.
Biblically speaking the physical life or earth where we all live and plug in our computers is heaven #1.
So I suppose the question of when heaven begins might be answered as;"at birth".
The place where the throne of God resides and that place where the saved are destined is #3.
Heaven #2 is the spiritual plane that is experienced by those near death accounts you've read about.
It is also the place where all sorts of spooky critters move about and perform their invisible mischief.
Back to the original question of when heaven begins - if one is in Christ one experiences #1 & #2 simultaneously.
A guarantee of ultimately living in #3 is also provided.
If a guarantee by the Almighty has any currency in life then I suppose one could rightly say that when one is saved,
they have snagged the brass ring of all the heavens in a single moment of time.
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