About the Signs of the Second Coming of Jesus

[Curtis]

Jay Ross, That is your private interpetation of Hoseas 6:v.1-3, this passage is combined with John 2:v.19-21:
19 Jesus said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
21 But he spake of the temple of his body. -the Church-Eph.1:v.21-22 and 1Cor.12:v.27-31, among others Scriptures.

In His mind, JESUS was speaking of His Church that He would go to build in three Days. Don't you think that this is marvelous? Well, the third Day has already gotten, and the words of JESUS will really fulfill LITERALLY hence forwards or from now on and the days will be shortenned.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.


From JESUS until now has passed two complete Days or two thousand years, we are living in the beginning of the third Day , exactly in the beginning of the first century of the third millennium.

The third Day exactly coincides with the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium that we have just entered. We are
living right at the beginning of the first century of this last millennium or the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, and JESUS
will fulfil LITERALLY what He said day after day, even being invisible, for a while evidently.





What prevails is the Word of God, not human conceptions, opinions, imaginations, speculations, conjectures, and so on.

Revelation 14:v. 17 to 20
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth (Israel); for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth(Israel), and gathered the vine of the earth(Israel), and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was (will be) trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


Romans 9:v.20 to 23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

If you want to learn what Paul was actually referring to in Romans 9 about the potter and clay, try reading Jeremiah 18, the potter and clay chapter.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The first half of the last week Daniel 9:v.27 will be ruled by the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.5- according to the treaty that will be made between the Dragon and the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.2- .

Assumption: that there is a "Treaty." In reality, Dan 9 speaks of a covenant confirmed approx. 490 years after the Persian King Artaxerxes in approx. 456 BC. This brings us to the cross of Christ, where Jesus confirmed that the covenant under the Law of Moses was fulfilled in his eternal atonement for sin.

This was the view of the Church Fathers and of many Christian scholars through the centuries. Making this into a futuristic prophecy is a modern interpretation, and perhaps a few ancient isolated interpretations, though I'm not completely sure about the evolution of this view.

Just know that it is not a given that this covenant is a covenant of Antichrist, since no such thing exists in the book of Revelation. In fact, no covenant of Antichrist is mentioned at all in the Bible if Dan 9 is properly viewed as fulfilled historically, the Abomination of Desolation being the Roman invasion 66-70 AD.

The Dragon will give his Power, and his Throne in the temple of Jerusalem, and his Authority to the Beast of sea-the blasphemer Pope, the Papacy, and the Papacy, or the Pope, but not Pope Francis, but the next and last Pope, he will sit on the Throne of the Dragon in Israel-2 Thessalonians 2:v.11-12-(strong delusion), and will blasphemy against God and his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ-Ephesians 1:v.3.

You know more than I do!

Revelation 13:v.8-10

And it was given unto the Beast of sea to make War with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

None of that states what you claimed. I do consider it biblical, however, that the Beast rises out of the old Roman Empire. And the 2nd Beast, therefore, may be a corrupt Pope--I'll give you that.

When the FIRST half of the week, as described above, ends, then the Dragon will sit on his Throne and will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. And the Abomination of Desolation will be established and Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 will be FULFILLED LITERALLY.

There is zero in the book of Revelation indicating the Dragon sits on a throne after a 3.5 period. On the contrary, the entire period in which Antichrist rules, by the power of Satan, lasts 3.5 years, after which he may lose his power, and the world collapses into chaos at Armageddon. But I'm not real clear on that.

 

[Curtis]

Believers will be raptured before the great tribulation. Believers are not appointed to God's wrath=the great tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

• Revelation 19:6-8 NKJV Jesus said we should watch and pray to be counted worth to escape the soon coming evil times. “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36 NKJ

I agree, that is, if you have the correct understanding that the tribulation consists of general tribulation for 3.5 years, and the great tribulation for 3.5 years - which is when the mark is given and the A/C makes war on the saints and overcomes them - thus the rapture is mid trib, pre mark, pre wrath, and premillennial.

But be aware that per Luke 21:36, and Revelation 3:16 where Jesus vomits out the lukewarm, there will be many Christians that will be left behind for being unworthy.

Half the virgins get locked out of the wedding supper in Matthew 25.

So when Jesus says one will be taken and the other left, that’s the same ratio of 50% found in Matthew 25.

Sadly it appears that half the believers are lukewarm and won’t make the rapture.

 

[Truth7t7]

Because the earth is described in scripture as having been DESTROYED by water, yet it’s the same planet, and because the Bible twice states WORLD WITHOUT END, and because there are nations that still exist such as Egypt in Zechariah 14 when God dwells on earth forever, and because Jesus splits mount olive in two with a huge chasm in the middle at His return in Zechariah 14, which is to make room for the literal city New Jerusalem to land on earth in Old Jerusalem per Revelation chapter 21, where God will dwell forever, and because most scholarship is also of the opinion that the earth and heavens are cleansed by fire, then made new and restored to edenic condition - I continue to believe that this earth will remain.
And there’s no reason to disbelieve the account in Revelation that mentions the thousand years four times.
The early church, such as Barnabas, believed that God created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th, as a prophetical foreshadow of there being six thousand years, or days, between Adam and the return of Jesus, and the millennial reign will be the 7th day, aka as Gods sabbath rest for His people, which is briefly referred to in Hebrews chapter 4.

Baruch HaShem Adonai.

Scripture clearly teaches the existing earth will be dissolved to it's very elements, there will be a New Heaven and Earth, a New Creation (Behold I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:6-13KJV
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Oseas]

I do. Every day I go back and consider what I lack in my understanding of the End Times. However, you have not provided me with any newer insight into the End Times for me to consider.

I work with the Word of GOD , the Word is GOD, so I have provided yes in all my posts what the Word of GOD reveals about the End Times. The Word is GOD, understand? He whom God has sent speaks the words of God.

Actually it is you who are not familiar with the Word of God, but with long profane disputings and vain babblings destituted of the Truth, based not in revelation of the Holy Spirit, but based in human opinions, and evil speculations and imaginations, and presumptions, and conjectures, in the way the Devil likes, they have nothing to do with the Word of GOD.

You lack the understanding that make the scriptures come alive with excitement in our Souls as we watch God's prophetic End Time Prophecies unfold before us.

Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective, being consequently a stumbling block in the path of the true Christians, unfortunately.

The life is in the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, the life is in His Son, the Word made flesh. He that has the Son has life, and he that has not the Son of God has not life.

Now, in the "End Time Prophecies" what matters is what JESUS said: Matt. 25:v.33-34

The LORD shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall He say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.

 

[Curtis]

Assumption: that there is a "Treaty." In reality, Dan 9 speaks of a covenant confirmed approx. 490 years after the Persian King Artaxerxes in approx. 456 BC. This brings us to the cross of Christ, where Jesus confirmed that the covenant under the Law of Moses was fulfilled in his eternal atonement for sin.

This was the view of the Church Fathers and of many Christian scholars through the centuries. Making this into a futuristic prophecy is a modern interpretation, and perhaps a few ancient isolated interpretations,

Then the church fathers and Christian scholars failed miserably at reading comprehension and interpretational ability.

There’s no possible way Daniel 9:27 is talking about Jesus and fulfilling the law.

In verse 26, Messiah is cut off, the city is destroyed by a prince that shall come, and he in verse 27 then makes a seven year covenant with many, that he breaks after 3.5 years by stepping into the temple stopping the sacrifices there, and that will be the abomination of desolation.

To whit:

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I believe preterism to be erroneous in the extreme.

David Guzik commentary does a good job of refuting the preterist interpretation of the 79 weeks of Daniel:

2. (Dan 9:24 b) What will be accomplished in the seventy weeks.

To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

a. To finish the transgression: This means that transgression itself will be finished. Taken literally this means establishing an entirely new order on earth, with an end to man’s rebellion against God.

i. “The culmination of appointed years will witness the conclusion of man’s ‘transgression’ or ‘rebellion’ against God - a development most naturally entered into with the establishment of an entirely new order on earth. This seems to require nothing less than the inauguration of the kingdom of God on earth.” (Archer)

b. To make an end of sins: Taking these words at face value, this means not only the end of the guilt of sin, but an end of sin itself. It means to “seal up” or “restrain” sins. This looks to a new, redeemed world.

c. To make reconciliation for iniquity: Man’s iniquity must be reconciled to God’s justice and holiness. This work was clearly accomplished at the cross.

d. To bring in everlasting righteousness: One might take this in an individual sense, but there have always been righteous individuals. Taking the statement at face value, this means a new order of society brought in by the Messiah.

e. To seal up vision and prophecy: This speaks of both the ending and fulfillment of prophecy, concluding the final stage of human history and culminating with the reign of the Son of God.

i. “It must include his enthronement.” (Archer)

f. To anoint the most holy: Taken at its simple, literal meaning, this refers to a place, not a person. There is a most holy place - the most holy place of the temple - that will be anointed and blessed.

g. Taken as a whole, Gabriel made a remarkable announcement to Daniel. He told him that each of these amazing things would happen within the period of seventy weeks.

i. Looking back in history, we can only say this things have each been fulfilled if we ignore their plain, literal meaning and give them a “spiritual” meaning that ignores their plain meaning. Some like to say that these promises are fulfilled generally in the spread of the gospel over the centuries, but this ignores the plain and simple meaning of these words.

3. (Dan 9:25) The course and dividing of the seventy weeks.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times.

a. From the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem: Here Gabriel reveals to Daniel the starting point for the seventy-weeks prophecy. There was a command to restore and build Jerusalem in history that began this specific time period.

i. The Bible presents four possible decrees that might fulfill this description:

• Cyrus made a decree giving Ezra and the Babylonian captives the right to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple in 538 B.C. (Ezr 1:1-4 and Ezr 5:13-17)

• Darius made a decree giving Ezra the right to rebuild the temple in 517 B.C. (Ezr 6:6-12)

• Artaxerxes made a decree giving Ezra permission, safe passage, and supplies to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple in 458 B.C. (Ezr 7:11-26)

• Artaxerxes made a decree giving Nehemiah permission, safe passage and supplies to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and the walls in 445 B.C. (Neh 2:1-8)

ii. Only the last of these four decrees was a command to restore and build Jerusalem. The first three each focused on the temple, not on the street or on the wall.

b. Until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks: Gabriel’s message to Daniel is simple and striking. 483 years - that is, 69 units of seven years - would pass from the time of the command recorded in Neh 2:1-8 until the appearance of Messiah the Prince.

i. Some say the 483 years were completed at Jesus’ birth (5 or 4 B.C.). There is little chronological support for this date.

ii. Some say the 483 years were completed at His baptism, at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry (if dated at 26 A.D.). This is possible if one begins with the earlier decree of Artaxerxes, and figures with our present measurement for years instead of the ancient measurement of years (360 days).

iii. Some say the 483 years were completed at the triumphal entry of Jesus (if dated at 32 A.D.). Sir Robert Anderson’s significant work The Coming Prince follows this argument in great detail.

• Anderson, using a 360-day year (which Israel used in Daniel’s day), calculates 173,880 days from the decree to the triumphal entry, fulfilling the prophecy to the day. “It is customary for the Jews to have twelve months of 360 days each and then to insert a thirteenth month occasionally when necessary to correct the calendar.” (Walvoord)

• The year 32 A.D. (based on Luk 3:1) for Jesus’ death is controversial (most chronologists favor 30 or 33 A.D.). But recent attempts have made some case for the date: “A recent article attempts to give credence to the date of A.D. 32; cf. R.E. Showers, Grace Journal, XI (Winter, 1970), pp. 30ff. The evidence presented is worthy of notice.” (Wood)


End of part one:

 

[Curtis]

PART TWO: refuting preterist interpretation of the 70 weeks of Daniel
David Guzik commentary:

• “No one today is able dogmatically to declare that Sir Robert Anderson’s computations are impossible.” (Walvoord)

iv. Some say the 483 years were completed at the exact time of the crucifixion.

c. Until Messiah the Prince: Taking Anderson’s calculations as reliable, we see a remarkable fulfillment of prophecy. A Gentile king made a decree and 483 years later to the day, Jesus presented Himself as Messiah the Prince to Israel.

i. In our mind a Prince is a good step lower than a king. In the Hebrew vocabulary, “Prince” has more the idea of “strong, mighty ruler” than “son of a king and heir to the throne.”

ii. “There was only one occasion in our Lord’s earthly ministry on which He is depicted as presenting Himself openly as Zion’s King, the so-called ‘Triumphal Entry,’ recorded in each one of the Gospels and fulfilling Zec 9:9 and Psa 118:26.” (Newell)

• On that day, Jesus deliberately arranged the event to present Himself as Messiah (Mar 11:1-10)

• On that day, Jesus welcomed praise (Luk 19:38-40) instead of quieting it (Luk 5:14 and Luk 8:56)

• On that day, Jesus made special reference to the importance of that day (Luk 19:41-42)

iii. This prophecy is so specifically fulfilled that it has been a significant testimony to many. “Others of the Jewish [scholars], by the evidence of these words, have been compelled to confess that Messiah is already come, and that he was that Jesus whom their forefathers crucified.” (Trapp)

d. The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times: This indicates that the rebuilding of the streets and wall of Jerusalem would happen in the first seven weeks mentioned. Then would follow another 62 weeks of years until the coming of Messiah the Prince.

i. The seventy weeks are divided into three parts:

• Seven weeks - 49 years, until the city and its walls are rebuilt

• 69 weeks (7 plus 62), 483 years from the decree, until Messiah the Prince appears

• A final 70th week to complete the prophecy

4. (Dan 9:26) What happens after the first sixty-nine weeks.

And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.

a. After the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off: The Biblical term cut off is sometimes used to describe execution (see Gen 9:11 and Exo 31:14). The Messiah will be cut off for the sake of others, not for Himself.

i. “Able chronologists have shown that the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ occurred immediately after the expiration of 483 prophetic years, of 360 days each, from the time of Artaxerxes’ order.” (Ironside)

ii. Strangely, many able commentators simply ignore these numbers. “The numbers are symbolic and not arithmetical.” (Baldwin)

iii. Cut off is a poignant description of Jesus’ earthly life up to and including the cross. “Born in another man’s stable, cradled in another man’s manger with nowhere to lay his head during his life on earth, and buried in another man’s tomb after dying on a cursed cross, the Christ of God and the Friend of the friendless was indeed cut off and had nothing.” (Heslop)

b. Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: After the Messiah is cut off, Jerusalem and her temple would be destroyed again by an overwhelming army (with a flood). Most all Bible scholars and commentators agree that this was fulfilled in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

c. The people of the prince who is to come shall destroy: The destroying army is made up of the people of the prince who is to come. This coming prince is described more in Dan 9:26.

6. (Dan 9:27) The events of the seventieth week.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.

a. He shall confirm a covenant: The “he” Gabriel mentions is the prince who is to come mentioned in the previous verse. If we know that the prince’s people destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., then we know this coming prince has his ancestral roots in the soil of the ancient Roman Empire.

i. Therefore, the prince who is to come will in some way be an heir to the Romans, even as the final world government is an heir to the Roman Empire (Daniel 7).

b. He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week: The coming prince will make a covenant with Israel for the final unit of seven years, completing the seventy weeks prophesied for the Jewish people and Jerusalem.

i. Covenant with many: The word many here is a specific reference to Israel, not a general reference to a group. The ancient Hebrew says, “covenant with the many.”

ii. With this covenant Israel will embrace the Antichrist as a political messiah, if not the literal Messiah. Jesus predicted this in Joh 5:43: I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

iii. Taking the description of what would be accomplished in the 70 Weeks from Dan 9:24, we know that the 70 Weeks are not yet complete. Yet the events promised in the first 69 weeks are fulfilled, indicated that there is a lengthy “pause” in the 70 Weeks, between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week will begin when the coming prince shall confirm a covenant with the Jewish people. These “gaps” or “pauses” in prophecy may seem strange to us, but they are common. Comparing Isa 9:6 and Luk 1:31-33 shows another significant “pause” or “gap” in prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah.

iv. We can think of it in this way: God has appointed 490 years of special focus on Israel in His redemptive plan. The years were “paused” by Israel’s rejection of Jesus. Now, there is no special focus on Israel in God’s redemptive plan because this is the time of the church. God’s focus will return to Israel when the church is taken away (at the rapture) and the last seven years of man’s rule on this earth begin.

v. “The 70th week will begin when the Jewish people are restored in unbelief to their land and city; and among them will be found a faithful remnant, owning their sin, and seeking Jehovah’s face.” (Henry Ironside writing in 1911)

c. In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering: The coming prince will break the covenant with Israel in the middle of the seven years, the final “week.”

i. The Book of Revelation sees this seven year period with both its halves as yet future (Rev 12:6; Rev 12:13-14; Rev 13:5-9; Rev 13:14-15). The middle of the week and the end of sacrifice had not yet happened in 90 A.D.

d. On the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate: The ending of sacrifice will come with abominations, followed by tremendous desolation.

i. Abominations translates an ancient Hebrew word (shiqquwts) that is connected to horrific idolatry (Deu 29:17, 1Ki 11:5-7, 2Ki 23:13). The idea is that the coming prince breaks the covenant and brings an end to sacrifice and offering by desecrating the holy place of the temple with a horrific idolatry.

ii. Jesus called this the abomination of desolation (Mat 24:15) and indicated that it would be a pivotal sign in the Great Tribulation. Paul referred to the idolatry of the coming prince in 2Th 2:3-4.

e. Until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate: This breaking of the covenant and abomination of desolation has a promised consummation. Before the 70th week is completed, each of the things described in Dan 9:24 will be accomplished and everlasting righteousness will reign.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis your claim of Mid-Trib isnt biblical as you claim

The Church will be present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, as Luke 21:25-28 clearly teaches below

How is that Mid-Trib Below Curtis?

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Luke 21 is a parallel account with Matthew 24.

Luke 21:20-24 is describing those in Judea fleeing when the abomination of desolation steps into the temple and declares himself to be God, explained more completely in Matthew 24:15-20 - which occurs in the middle of Daniels 70th week.

This establishes that Luke 21:21-24 is at the mid-trib point in time, and verse 27 is a rapture. The events they witness in verse 25 occur before the mid trib rapture in 27.

Through verses 21:5-35 Jesus describes the tribulation, then says this about it in 36:

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus describes the tribulation then tells them to pray always that they will be worthy TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, in the tribulation events He had just described, i.e., escape the great tribulation, which is the last half of the tribulation- ergo, the mid-trib, pre mark, pre wrath tribulation is established by Jesus Himself.

Of course, the lukewarm won’t be worthy, and will be left behind, per Revelation 3:16.

So now you know how a mid-trib rapture is found in Luke 21.

BTW verse 27 says then THEY shall see.... He’s talking to the apostles, so the THEY who see the rapture and the events before it, are those left behind on the earth, the ones who’s hearts are failing with fear of what they are seeing, then THEY shall see the rapture occur.

Baruch HaShem Hamasciach Y’eshua.

 

[Curtis]

Scripture clearly teaches the existing earth will be dissolved to it's very elements, there will be a New Heaven and Earth, a New Creation (Behold I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:6-13KJV
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-2KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Continuing to quote those same scriptures does not prove that the new earth is not the newly restored earth. anymore than continuing to quote that the earth was destroyed by water would prove this present earth is a different planet than the one destroyed by water.

Things are made new - by being newly restored to original edenic conditions, after being cleansed by fire..

Not just my opinion- as I said many biblical scholars also believe the earth isn’t destroyed but completely made new and restored.


Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Then the church fathers and Christian scholars failed miserably at reading comprehension and interpretational ability.

There’s no possible way Daniel 9:27 is talking about Jesus and fulfilling the law.

In verse 26, Messiah is cut off, the city is destroyed by a prince that shall come, and he in verse 27 then makes a seven year conversation with many, that he breaks after 3.5 years by stepping into the temple stopping the sacrifices there, and that will be the abomination of desolation.

To whit:

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I believe preterism to be erroneous in the extreme.

Assumption: that I am a Preterist. False. Many prophecies were fulfilled in history. To believe the prophecy of the 70 Weeks were fulfilled in history is fact and obviously true. If ever there was a prophecy with a time clock on it, this is one! And yet, you take the opposite position, that those who actually believe what is said are "obviously wrong?"

As I said, a king established a policy to continue the policy of Cyrus, to restore both Jerusalem and the temple. The temple was built first, and then work began on the city. But it wasn't until Artaxerxes began to make arrangements to complete this vision that the time clock began, in approx. 456 BC. Did you completely ignore that point while you were so busy denouncing my position and that of the Church Fathers, and that of so many scholars? No, I suppose your view and the modern view counts more than that?

From Artaxerxes' decree to complete the vision until Christ was just less than 490 years. The final week of years was terminated in the "midst of the week," or after 3.5 years. Since Jesus had a 3.5 year ministry, and died, he perfectly fits the prophecy.

In the generation of his death he had appointed that the Romans, the Abomination of Desolation, should come and avenge his death, punishment Jerusalem for rejecting their Savior. This happened in 70 AD. And the punishment, according to Jesus, in Luke 21, continues all through the present age until Israel is restored at Christ's return.

This not only makes sense, it's exactly what the prophecy says. If you want to take some modern Futurist view of things, turning historically-fulfilled prophecies into fanciful prophecies of Antichrist, a Peace Treaty, and the like, be my guest. I just have to say, I think you're wrong.

I'll try to answer Guzik later.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21 is a parallel account with Matthew 24.

Luke 21:20-24 is describing those in Judea fleeing when the abomination of desolation steps into the temple and declares himself to be God, explained more completely in Matthew 24:15-20 - which occurs in the middle of Daniels 70th week.

This establishes that Luke 21:21-24 is at the mid-trib point in time, and verse 27 is a rapture. The events they witness in verse 25 occur before the mid trib rapture in 27.

Through verses 21:5-35 Jesus describes the tribulation, then says this about it in 36:

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus describes the tribulation then tells them to pray always that they will be worthy TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, in the tribulation events He had just described, i.e., escape the great tribulation, which is the last half of the tribulation- ergo, the mid-trib, pre mark, pre wrath tribulation is established by Jesus Himself.

Of course, the lukewarm won’t be worthy, and will be left behind, per Revelation 3:16.

So now you know how a mid-trib rapture is found in Luke 21.

BTW verse 27 says then THEY shall see.... He’s talking to the apostles, so the THEY who see the rapture and the events before it, are those left behind on the earth, the ones who’s hearts are failing with fear of what they are seeing, then THEY shall see the rapture occur.

Baruch HaShem Hamasciach Y’eshua.

Curtis what you claim isnt found below, the scripture clearly teaches the church will be on earth to witness the end of the tribulation, mens hearts failing for fear of the Lord, the powers of heaven shaken, then the second coming, they shall see the son of man coming, look up your redemption draweth nigh

The day of redemption is the (Second Coming)

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Continuing to quote those same scriptures does not prove that the new earth is not the newly restored earth. anymore than continuing to quote that the earth was destroyed by water would prove this present earth is a different planet than the one destroyed by water.

Things are made new - by being newly restored to original edenic conditions, after being cleansed by fire..

Not just my opinion- as I said many biblical scholars also believe the earth isn’t destroyed but completely made new and restored.


Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Yes scripture clearly teaches the earth will be dissolved by fire "Pass Away", and replaced with the New Creation

Your claim God is going to have a camp fire with a little house cleaning isnt found in the scripture below

Scripture clearly teaches the existing earth will be dissolved to it's very elements, there will be a New Heaven and Earth, a New Creation (Behold I Make All Things New)

(Isaiah) 24:19-20KJV
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

(Psalm) 75:3KJV
3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

(2 Peter) 3:6-13KJV
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

(Revelation) 21:1-2KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Jay Ross]

I work with the Word of GOD , the Word is GOD, so I have provided yes in all my posts what the Word of GOD reveals about the End Times. The Word is GOD, understand? He whom God has sent speaks the words of God.

Actually it is you who are not familiar with the Word of God, but with long profane disputings and vain babblings destituted of the Truth, based not in revelation of the Holy Spirit, but based in human opinions, and evil speculations and imaginations, and presumptions, and conjectures, in the way the Devil likes, they have nothing to do with the Word of GOD.




Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective, being consequently a stumbling block in the path of the true Christians, unfortunately.

The life is in the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, the life is in His Son, the Word made flesh. He that has the Son has life, and he that has not the Son of God has not life.

Now, in the "End Time Prophecies" what matters is what JESUS said: Matt. 25:v.33-34

The LORD shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall He say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.

Oseas, please be careful in your accusations as to the source of my understanding of the End Times.

You say that you use the word of God in your responses, but my sense is that that you use the word in an attempt to bully others into accepting your understanding of what the Word of God might be saying.

Have a good day now.

 

[Truth7t7]

Assumption: that I am a Preterist. False. Many prophecies were fulfilled in history. To believe the prophecy of the 70 Weeks were fulfilled in history is fact and obviously true. If ever there was a prophecy with a time clock on it, this is one! And yet, you take the opposite position, that those who actually believe what is said are "obviously wrong?"

As I said, a king established a policy to continue the policy of Cyrus, to restore both Jerusalem and the temple. The temple was built first, and then work began on the city. But it wasn't until Artaxerxes began to make arrangements to complete this vision that the time clock began, in approx. 456 BC. Did you completely ignore that point while you were so busy denouncing my position and that of the Church Fathers, and that of so many scholars? No, I suppose your view and the modern view counts more than that?

From Artaxerxes' decree to complete the vision until Christ was just less than 490 years. The final week of years was terminated in the "midst of the week," or after 3.5 years. Since Jesus had a 3.5 year ministry, and died, he perfectly fits the prophecy.

In the generation of his death he had appointed that the Romans, the Abomination of Desolation, should come and avenge his death, punishment Jerusalem for rejecting their Savior. This happened in 70 AD. And the punishment, according to Jesus, in Luke 21, continues all through the present age until Israel is restored at Christ's return.

This not only makes sense, it's exactly what the prophecy says. If you want to take some modern Futurist view of things, turning historically-fulfilled prophecies into fanciful prophecies of Antichrist, a Peace Treaty, and the like, be my guest. I just have to say, I think you're wrong.

I'll try to answer Guzik later.

Your claim of 70AD fulfillment Is False, The Bad Guy Below In (Daniel) 9:27 Will Be On Earth Until The (Consummation) The Ultimate End (Future)

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Take Close Note, The Bad Guy Below In Verse 27 Will Be Around Making Abomination And Desolation All The Way To The (Consummation) "The Ultimate End"

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Oseas]

It is interesting to note that you said what I had posted was my own private interruption, but you then went on to provide a similar argument to the one I had provided but where I had used Hosea 6:1-2 to highlight the events that will prevail for the nation of Israel, you instead used both to establish your private interpretation with respect to Christ re-establishing God Temple, in the Body of the Saints, but not, IMHO, until three days of the Lord have passed.

Who first mentioned for you Hosea 6:1-3 was CharismaticLady through the post#8, trying to teach you how to interpret the prophecy of Hoseas, as below:

The bottomless pit will open when Jesus comes and starts the 1000 year millennium. Satan is gone from the earth for those 1000 years.

Jay, you might be interested in a prophecy that is actually a day for 1000 years.
Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us; (2,000 years) On the third day He will raise us up,(resurrection and 2nd coming and 1000 year millennium) That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know, Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord. His going forth is established as the morning; He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth. (1st and 2nd comings of Christ.)

But you refused to learn the Truth and replied to CharismaticLady, as we can see through your post #14, as below:

That is your private interpretation of Hosea 6:1-3. This passage is speaking of the two ages where God has turned his back on the Nation of Israel, and at the completion of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers on their children and their Children's children, during the third and fourth age of their existence, God will raise up the Nation of Israel once more to re-establish the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nations and His Possession among the nations, covenant and will make it like new again for them with subtle changes, so that they will live in His sight.

In your reply above you lied to CharismaticLady. You say about "God's covenant making it like new again for them with subtle changes, so that they will live in His sight", what is a devilish lie and will never happen, its you who is being subtitiously to sow your tares here. Furthermore, you lie saying "God will raise up the Nation of Israel to make things according your imaginations, not according His Word", for God said clearly since ancient time by His prophets that "a very small remnant-Isaiah 1:v.9- would be left, and Revelation 7 reveals the "very small remnant" is 144K, these are/will be ALL Israel in the Kingdom of God-Revelation 14:v.1-5.

It is interesting to note that you said what I had posted was my own private interruption, but you then went on to provide a similar argument to the one I had provided but where I had used Hosea 6:1-2 to highlight the events that will prevail for the nation of Israel, you instead used both to establish your private interpretation with respect to Christ re-establishing God Temple, in the Body of the Saints, but not, IMHO, until three days of the Lord have passed.

To understand what JESUS says by His words, first of all is necessary to have the Spirit of Christ, your human spirit will never undestand JESUS.

In my posts before I used your own words to CharismaticLady for Judging also "your private interpretation of Hoseas 6:v.1-3. In fact, the prophetic message of Hosea is combined with John 2:v.19-21:

19 Jesus said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
As said before, From JESUS until now has passed two complete Days or two thousand years, we are living in the beginning of the THIRD Day , exactly in the beginning of the first century of the THIRD millennium after Christ.


21 But he spake of the temple of his body. - the Church-
I mentioned Ephesians 1:v.21-22 and 1Corinthians 12:v.27-31, among others Scriptures. But you are not familiar with the Word of God, but with long profane disputings and vain babblings destituted of the Truth, based not in revelation of the Holy Spirit, but based in human opinions, and evil speculations and imaginations, and presumptions, and conjectures, in the way the Devil likes, they have nothing to do with the Word of GOD.

In His mind, JESUS was speaking of His Church that He would go to build in three Days. Don't you think that this is marvelous? Well, the third Day has already gotten, and the words of JESUS will really fulfill LITERALLY hence forwards or from now on and the days will be shortenned.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day.
From JESUS until now has passed two complete Days or two thousand years, we are living in the beginning of the third Day , exactly in the beginning of the first century of the third millennium.

The third Day exactly coincides with the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium that we have just entered. We are
living right at the beginning of the first century of this last millennium or the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, and JESUS
will fulfil LITERALLY what He said day after day, even being invisible, for a while evidently.


What prevails is the Word of God, not human conceptions, opinions, imaginations, speculations, conjectures, and so on.


CONCERNING ISRAEL - WHERE THE DRAGON WILL COME FROM - the RED DRAGON

Revelation 14:v. 17 to 20

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth (Israel); for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth(Israel), and gathered the vine of the earth(Israel), and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was (will be) trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Romans 9:v.20 to 23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Oseas]

We all need to be careful when we made blanket statements like this as it often is a reflection of the cunning fables that we weave into our understanding of the scriptures. Need I say any more.

You are not familiar with the Word of God, but with long profane disputings and vain babblings destituted of the Truth, based not in revelation of the Holy Spirit, but based in human opinions, and evil speculations and imaginations, and presumptions, and conjectures, in the way the Devil likes, they have nothing to do with the Word of GOD.

What prevails is the Word of God, not human conceptions, opinions, imaginations, speculations, conjectures, and so on. Your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective, being consequently a stumblingblock in the path of the true Christian, unfortunately.


Isaiah 33:v.14
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?


JESUS warned: Matthew 10:v.27-28

27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. - This words will fulfill LITERALLY from now on -

Be careful or get ready

 

[Oseas]

Oseas, please be careful in your accusations as to the source of my understanding of the End Times.

You say that you use the word of God in your responses, but my sense is that that you use the word in an attempt to bully others into accepting your understanding of what the Word of God might be saying.

Have a good day now.

I do not know word more powerful than the Word of God. The Word is GOD, understand?

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged Sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him to whom we must render an account.


JESUS said to the Jews: John 8:v.47 - He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

JESUS said unto the Jews they are not of GOD. Do you agree with the Word of GOD - JESUS?

They said to JESUS: We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:v.41


JESUS said to the Jews: John 8:42-45

42 If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the Truth, ye believe me not.

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. Matt.10:v.24-25

 

[Randy Kluth]

David Guzik commentary does a good job of refuting the preterist interpretation of the 79 weeks of Daniel:

2. (Dan 9:24 b) What will be accomplished in the seventy weeks.

To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

a. To finish the transgression: This means that transgression itself will be finished. Taken literally this means establishing an entirely new order on earth, with an end to man’s rebellion against God.

No, this has to do with Israel filling up the cup of their transgressions. Israel came to the critical stage of their sin, rejected their Messiah, and then lost both their religion and their status as "God's People."

b. To make an end of sins: Taking these words at face value, this means not only the end of the guilt of sin, but an end of sin itself. It means to “seal up” or “restrain” sins. This looks to a new, redeemed world.

No, Christ brought an end to sin in Israel by delivering the wicked nation over to the ungodly Romans. This ended sin in Israel, even if it continued among the scattered Jewish People. Their testimony to God was finished, at least until Christ comes back.

c. To make reconciliation for iniquity: Man’s iniquity must be reconciled to God’s justice and holiness. This work was clearly accomplished at the cross.

Yes, reconciliation was made at the cross, where *all* of these things were fulfilled. The 70 Weeks were designed to be completed, 486.5 years later, at the cross of Christ.

d. To bring in everlasting righteousness: One might take this in an individual sense, but there have always been righteous individuals. Taking the statement at face value, this means a new order of society brought in by the Messiah.

Christ's resurrection from the dead did bring in everlasting righteousness on behalf of the saints. This will allow, later on, our immortalization. But the fulfillment of this prophecy took place at the time of the cross, at the resurrection.

e. To seal up vision and prophecy: This speaks of both the ending and fulfillment of prophecy, concluding the final stage of human history and culminating with the reign of the Son of God.

When Jesus said, "It is finished," he finished all the prophecy concerned with the redemption of mankind. Again, these 6 items were completed at the cross of Christ.

f. To anoint the most holy: Taken at its simple, literal meaning, this refers to a place, not a person. There is a most holy place - the most holy place of the temple - that will be anointed and blessed.

On the contrary, this was a person, and no longer a place. The place, which had been the holy of holies, had now been fulfilled in the holy one, the Christ. He anointed the temple in heaven for the redemption of mankind.

g. Taken as a whole, Gabriel made a remarkable announcement to Daniel. He told him that each of these amazing things would happen within the period of seventy weeks.

Exactly, and that's why I say it was all fulfilled at the cross. This is not Preterism, but historically fulfilled prophecy. There is still future prophecy yet to be fulfilled, but Dan 9 and the 70 Weeks are all about the cross of Christ.

b. Until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks: Gabriel’s message to Daniel is simple and striking. 483 years - that is, 69 units of seven years - would pass from the time of the command recorded in Neh 2:1-8 until the appearance of Messiah the Prince.

Yes, and the last Week, the 70th Week, would be completed with Christ's confirmation of the covenant of the Law through the establishment of his New Covenant. This took place when he died in the middle of the Week. This fulfilled the 70 Weeks by finishing off the 70th Week in only a half week.

ii. Some say the 483 years were completed at His baptism, at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry (if dated at 26 A.D.). This is possible if one begins with the earlier decree of Artaxerxes, and figures with our present measurement for years instead of the ancient measurement of years (360 days).

This is what I think. But it doesn't require 360 day years, I don't believe. 486.5 years = 456 BC to 30 AD. 30 AD is approx. when Christ was "cut off."

 

[Randy Kluth]

Your claim of 70AD fulfillment Is False, The Bad Guy Below In (Daniel) 9:27 Will Be On Earth Until The (Consummation) The Ultimate End (Future)

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

No, I believe this was a vision, which is typically symbolic and esoteric. It is designed as such to confuse unbelievers, but to give believers insight. Joseph saw 7 cows for 7 years. It's not too difficult to see a Week for 7 years.

But the most striking thing is that 6 things were to be fulfilled by the 70th Week, representing items that only Christ could fulfill at the cross. It has to be 486.5 years after the 456 BC decree of Artaxerxes to complete Cyrus' project in Jerusalem.

 

[Jay Ross]

In your reply above you lied to CharismaticLady. You say about "God's covenant making it like new again for them with subtle changes, so that they will live in His sight", what is a devilish lie and will never happen, its you who is being subtitiously to sow your tares here. Furthermore, you lie saying "God will raise up the Nation of Israel to make things according your imaginations, not according His Word", for God said clearly since ancient time by His prophets that "a very small remnant-Isaiah 1:v.9- would be left, and Revelation 7 reveals the "very small remnant" is 144K, these are/will be ALL Israel in the Kingdom of God-Revelation 14:v.1-5.

Please, please, do not show your ignorance in what you write. I was quoting what Jewish scholars believe and I agree with their understanding in that the second Kingdom of Priests a Holy Nation and God's possession among the Nations Covenant it will be subtly different from the Mt Sinai covenant which Israel rejected in under 40 days while Mses was up on the mountain with God for 40 days. Compare the covenant structures between the Mt Sinai and the Jeremiah recorded covenants and you will see that they are different.

It is you who are saying that my statement that Israel will be raise up and healed so that they will be able to live within His sight, is a lie, because only a small remanent will be left. It is you who is presenting a lie, as what I have said is not.

Because your understanding is limited, there is no further need for you to try and teach me how to suck eggs. That is not needed.

Have a good day then.