About the Signs of the Second Coming of Jesus

[CharismaticLady]

The second coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is at the mid trib point, and that timeline is established as a fact, because Jesus has the abomination of desolation occurring in verse 15 - which is in the middle of Daniels 70th week - then the GREAT tribulation, which is the last 42 months, starts in verse 21, followed by His second coming in verse 30-31, as the next event.
Jesus confirms again His mid trib second coming, by saying He comes after THE tribulation - verse 29 - not the GREAT tribulation that He refers to in verse 21, but the tribulation, which is the first 42 months of the tribulation - (which is general tribulation- there’s no mark given yet, no wearing out the saints of God yet, as in the last 42 months).

Notice also that the sun goes dark, and the moon goes black, just before His second coming, which os what happens at the great and terrible day of the lord - the day of the lord, and the Lords return, are the same event.

Therefore, when Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 that we won’t be gathered together to be with the Lord until the mid-trib event occurs called the abomination of desolation (caused by the son of perdition declaring himself God while sitting in the Jewish temple), and also calls it the day of the lord, he didn’t switch topics or events - the second coming of the Lord, and the day of the Lord, are synonymous.

Back up one chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2, to chapter one, and it confirms that Jesus returns with flaming fire and the vengeance of the Lord, which occurs at the day of the lord.

So we have the dark sun and black moon occurring just before His coming, in Matthew 24, and that He comes with flaming fire and vengeance in 2 Thessalonians 1, verifying the day of the Lord and His second coming are the same event - then Paul writes we won’t be gathered together to be with Jesus in the second coming/day of the Lord until the mid-trib son of perdition/abomination of desolation event happens, in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Which chapter of Daniel do you believe Jesus is speaking of in verse 15? 7, 8, or 9?

Why do you think the Great Tribulation is the last half of 7 years? What happens during the first part do you think? When does the Antichrist appear?

 

[GISMYS_7]

All the signs of we were told to look for just before the rapture "catching up" have been fullifiled and Jesus will return any time any day!!PTL.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that the disciples who heard the message on the Mount of Olives were fully expectant of what Jesus Christ had to say when they asked Him to tell them about the signs of the end and how they could know that the end of the Age they once lived in was coming to an end. It was one of the driving explanations that lead them to Go out and teach about the coming of the Lord, along with all the other promises of hope Jesus Christ had taught them and told them about in the coming of the Kingdom of God -> Also leaving and to go and be with the Lord God Almighty by and through resurrection; because they knew Jesus Christ was going to return.

 

[Truth7t7]

Which chapter of Daniel do you believe Jesus is speaking of in verse 15? 7, 8, or 9?

Why do you think the Great Tribulation is the last half of 7 years? What happens during the first part do you think? When does the Antichrist appear?

No place in the scripture, dose it teach of a 7 years tribulation

1260 days or 42 months isnt 7 years, it represents a future 3.5 year tribulation

 

[Oseas]

Assumption: that there is a "Treaty." In reality, Dan 9 speaks of a covenant confirmed approx. 490 years after the Persian King Artaxerxes in approx. 456 BC. This brings us to the cross of Christ, where Jesus confirmed that the covenant under the Law of Moses was fulfilled in his eternal atonement for sin.

Randy, I wrote in my post: "The first half of the last week Daniel 9:v.27 will be ruled by the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.5- according to the treaty that will be made between the Dragon and the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.2.

As you and all can see, the message is about the current time of Apocalypse, and you about a "covenant approx. 490 years after Persian King Artaxerxes in aprox. 456BC". Though your theory be linked to storytellers and has nothing to do with what I posted about the Man Beast who speaks as Dragon, and the Beast of sea, the Pope, I'm curious to know what kind of covenant of 490 years did the King Atarxerxes make, and with whom, and why?

This was the view of the Church Fathers and of many Christian scholars through the centuries. Making this into a futuristic prophecy is a modern interpretation, and perhaps a few ancient isolated interpretations, though I'm not completely sure about the evolution of this view.

See, my post is about Revelation 13 that GOD gave to JESUS to reveal unto His servants (it was around 95AD) the things which should come to pass in the future; not on events ocurred centuries BC. Well, even you said that "are not completely sure about the evolution of that (foolish) view" you have posted. Actually, its hard to comment the Word of GOD in the darkness, but the Word is a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our path.

Just know that it is not a given that this covenant is a covenant of Antichrist, since no such thing exists in the book of Revelation. In fact, no covenant of Antichrist is mentioned at all in the Bible if Dan 9 is properly viewed as fulfilled historically, the Abomination of Desolation being the Roman invasion 66-70 AD.

Sorry, Rand, why to know, and what good will it do me to know what you are selling, if there is not even one unique Truth in your message? I will never work in the way the Devil likes. The theologians who say the Abomination of Desolation was the Roman invasion 66-70 AD, they are disciples of the father of the lie, not of the LORD Jesus; the worst, Randy, is that you are believing in them.

 

[Oseas]

Please, please, do not show your ignorance in what you write. I was quoting what Jewish scholars believe and I agree with their understanding in that the second Kingdom of Priests a Holy Nation and God's possession among the Nations Covenant it will be subtly different from the Mt Sinai covenant which Israel rejected in under 40 days while Mses was up on the mountain with God for 40 days. Compare the covenant structures between the Mt Sinai and the Jeremiah recorded covenants and you will see that they are different.

It is you who are saying that my statement that Israel will be raise up and healed so that they will be able to live within His sight, is a lie, because only a small remanent will be left. It is you who is presenting a lie, as what I have said is not.

Because your understanding is limited, there is no further need for you to try and teach me how to suck eggs. That is not needed.

FAKE. FAKE.
I like to speak of God's Truth. GOD is Truth. Your comment comes from the father of lie, you fell in Devil's traps.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No place in the scripture, dose it teach of a 7 years tribulation

1260 days or 42 months isnt 7 years, it represents a future 3.5 year tribulation

Times, time and half a time is also 3.5 years. Don't forget that one. Added together it is 7 years.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Times, time and half a time is also 3.5 years. Don't forget that one. Added together it is 7 years.

I think where the confusion lies is who is the focus of the Antichrist's wrath; the Jews or the Christians.

Rev. 12. During the first 3 1/2 years the partial blindness is lifted from national Israel and those during the last seven years become saved and come into Christ's Church. These Jews are hidden. So the Antichrist instead goes after the "rest of her offspring" the grafted in Gentiles into spiritual Israel.

Rev. 13. The second 3 1/2 years (42 months) the Antichrist is "allowed to continue." Note the word continue meaning there was something prior, namely the time, times and half a time (3 1/2 years). Now the Antichrist attacks the whole church of both Gentile and newly saved Jews.

 

[Oseas]

Oseas said: ↑
The Dragon will give his Power, and his Throne in the temple of Jerusalem, and his Authority to the Beast of sea-the blasphemer Pope, the Papacy, and the Papacy, or the Pope, but not Pope Francis, but the next and last Pope, he will sit on the Throne of the Dragon in Israel-2 Thessalonians 2:v.11-12-(strong delusion), and will blasphemy against God and his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ-Revelation 13:v.6 and Ephesians 1:v.3.

You know more than I do!

Yes, the Man Beast of earth like a lamb with two horns (earth is Israel, the clay, the dry land), but speaks as Dragon-Revelation

13:v.11- he will give his Power, and his Throne in the temple of Jerusalem, and his Authority, to the Beast of sea-the blasphemer Pope, the

Papacy, and the Papacy, or the Pope, but not Pope Francis, but the next and last Pope, he will sit on the Throne of the Dragon in

Israel-2 Thessalonians 2:v.11-12-(strong delusion), and the Dragon, the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah of the

Jews, will make great signs and wonders of lie, he has power to give life unto the image of the Beast of sea-the Pope-, that the image of the

Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast of sea (enthroned in the great city of

Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt), should be killed.

And the Man Beast of earth-the Dragon- will deceive them that dwell on the earth (the inhabiters of Israel) by the means of those miracles

which he has power to do in the sight of the Beast of sea, the Pope, saying to them that dwell on the earth(dwell in Israel), that they should

make an image to the Beast of the sea-the Pope-, which had the wound by a Sword, and did live.


Yes, the next and last Pope who will be elected soon, or as soon as Pope Francis dies, yeah, the next Pope will be linked with the Dragon-

Revelation 13:v.2. On the other hand, the fall of Netaniahu may be a signal that the Dragon is at door, and he will incorporate the Roman

Catholic Church which rides upon the Beast of sea, with 7 heads, 10 horns, and has a gigantic and universal religious structures, leaded and

guided by the Pope, whose structures the Dragon, the esoteric , and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah of the Jews, will make a fusion between

Judaism and Catholicism whose structures belongs to Satan per nature, then they both -the Dragon and the Pope- will build a monstrous

religious and satanic kingdom in the Earth. Satan has material a lot, material and spiritually, to build his universal kingdom. This will be the

Antichrist's kingdom now in the end of the time.

JESUS WARNED: Matthew 24:v.15 to 19

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall

deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Daniel 12:v.11-12
11 And from the time that the...the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think where the confusion lies is who is the focus of the Antichrist's wrath; the Jews or the Christians.

Rev. 12. During the first 3 1/2 years the partial blindness is lifted from national Israel and those during the last seven years become saved and come into Christ's Church. These Jews are hidden. So the Antichrist instead goes after the "rest of her offspring" the grafted in Gentiles into spiritual Israel.

Rev. 13. The second 3 1/2 years (42 months) the Antichrist is "allowed to continue." Note the word continue meaning there was something prior, namely the time, times and half a time (3 1/2 years). Now the Antichrist attacks the whole church of both Gentile and newly saved Jews.

There is a 3.5 year tribulation from the time the antichrist is revealed the 42 months start

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a 3.5 year tribulation from the time the antichrist is revealed the 42 months start

Which chapter in Revelation are you in? Or are you in Daniel???

And who is the focus of the tribulation? Christians or Jews?

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a 3.5 year tribulation from the time the antichrist is revealed the 42 months start

Please read mine again, because you are missing a whole 3 1/2 years. You have to look at both chapters 12 and 13.

 

[Timtofly]

You and I have had this dance several times already. Why do you jump to conclusions about what I know? You are once again bearing false witness against what I believe. You should know it by heart by now, for we have discussed this many times.

YOu are lousy at understanding basic grammar. Every time you see the word covenant you seem to want to force it to mean the New Covenant- which is not even a covenant God made with the Gentiles!

But once again let us look at the important and relevant verse:

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

verse 26:

1. Jesus is cut off for the people.
2. people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and sanctuary--Rome and the events of AD 66-70! The prince that shall come is not connected in time to the people of the prince, just that they are related-Roman.
3. The HE of verse 27 by grammatic rule (which you disdain I know) does and must refer back to its nearest personal noun antecedent! That is the prince of the people. so this is a Roman prince who makes a 7 year covenant with Israel.
4. Jesus never made a 7 year covenant with Israel.
5. Jesus never caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease! Teh verse does not read "He shall cause the efficacy of the sacrifice and oblation to cease". YOur definition is nothing more than a rewrite of scripture.
6. Jesus would never do anything to cause an overspreading of abominations- He is God and will not cause evil. The second He once again has to refer back to its nearest personal noun antecedent. that is the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary and city- a Roman.
7. Taking a context and bounce it between literal and allegorical interpretations is wrong wrong wrong!

There is no metaphor in those verses. So no one is bouncing back and forth.

There is no 7 year covenant. That is a presupposition. You are supposing verse 29 is the 70th week. It is not. It is a week of days. It is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Which is also the 3rd woe. Revelation 10:7

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery of Daniel 9:27. This is Jesus Christ confirming the Covenant. The Covenant that was the cause of the Messiah being "cut off". That is the Atonement Covenant. It is the Gospel that is being confirmed.

Revelation 13 is the abomination that splits this week in half.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

God allowed the week to be split. Why would confirming the Atonement with many cause the week to split? It will be because too many humans are left on earth, after the harvest of the sheep and goats, and the wheat and the tares. This harvest happens during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. The 7th Trumpet is a woe if the week is split. The 7th Trumpet is the completion of the 70th week of Daniel 9. If it is not split, then the winepress happens and there is no 42 month extension. All of Adam's flesh and blood are destroyed, and the Millennium begins immediately.

Messiah is the one cut off in verse 26 and the one confirming the Covenant in verse 27.

"and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined"

The "people" is the subject. "Of the prince" is a prepositional phrase describing the subject. It is the people who destroy the city. It can be argued that Jesus Christ is the prince that shall come. The people of Israel in the first century were looking for a prince, not a Messiah. Daniel is saying they destroy the city because their prince never came. Jesus came as Messiah, not as prince. The Messiah was introduced in verse 25. Was cut off, but not for himself in verse 26. The Messiah will confirm the Covenant to complete the Atonement Covenant, to finish the list of items God is doing for His people.

We know it was the rebel Jews who destroyed both Jerusalem and the Temple. They were the cause that brought Rome against them.

Now why take a preposition and turn it into the entire subject?

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince"

Gabriel already defined Jesus as both the Messiah and the Prince. The preposition was already established as Jesus being the prince. History proves Jesus was the Messiah instead of setting up a throne as Prince. When will Jesus set up His throne? At the Second Coming. Matthew 25:31.

Revelation declares that Jesus Christ Himself is the 70th week. That is what Gabriel is saying, but in a way that made it the mystery that can only be solved at the Second Coming.

 

[Timtofly]

How do you interpret Daniel 9:27?

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

I see the Messiah being cut off BEFORE this time of Daniel 9:27. The prince to come is not Christ, but Titus the general that destroyed the temple in 70 AD, years after the Messiah is cut off, but prophesied by Jesus. I also see this last verse 27 as at that time, but a paradigm of the future one in Revelation 12-13.

Verse 27 as I see it. The second Jewish revolt was from 66 AD to 73 AD. (ONE WEEK OR 7 YEARS). The Middle of the week was 70 AD.

There are three 7 year periods regarding the Jews and "antichrists"

The first one was in Daniel 8 (2,300 mornings and evenings - from 167 BC to 160 BC Antiochus Epiphaanes IV and the Maccabean war.

Already covered this for Ron.

Gabriel is only describing Jesus Christ in those verses, both as Prince and Messiah. Jesus came unto His own, but His own (people) recieved Him not. The Prince shall come, but the Second Coming (time around). Israel destroyed their Temple and Jerusalem. That day they cried, "His blood will be upon us and our children". The people of the prince, Jesus Christ which shall come at the Second Coming, this people will destroy their own city. Gabriel is only talking about God and His chosen people.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city.

It is God doing the determining. God came as the Atonement. God will confirm the Covenant, and God allowed His people to destroy Jerusalem in the first century. God may allow Satan to make it desolate for 42 months, only if necessary. Obviously not the Temple that was destroyed. Christ sets up a throne, why not a Temple?

I think setting up a Temple was left out as part of the mystery of God's plan. Just like the Thunders were left out of Revelation as part of this mystery. The Thunders could have explained it more. The church was given enough knowledge, and still messed it all up with many different theological interpretations. Revelation was not necessarily for the church, yet the church was supposed to teach it to the world. It is the world that will deal with all this tribulation.

 

[Jay Ross]

FAKE. FAKE.
I like to speak of God's Truth. GOD is Truth. Your comment comes from the father of lie, you fell in Devil's traps.

Have it your way then as there is only one truth as far as you are concerned and that is your struth and no other.

Have a good day now.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Already covered this for Ron.

I rarely read other posts to other people.

The prince is not Jesus. He is already cut off. Besides, Jesus is KING. It is about 70 AD

 

[n2thelight]

I rarely read other posts to other people.

The prince is not Jesus. He is already cut off. Besides, Jesus is KING. It is about 70 AD

70 AD was a type

 

[n2thelight]

It's not 3 1/2 years as they were cut short .
4th beast is supernatural , ie satan himself and his 10 angelic kings
The fallen angels are returning , people need to understand that

They are not flesh men

 

[n2thelight]

Yes indeed , let no man , woman or child make a covenant with the RCC and her false unity all inclusive religion

It's not just the rcc ,all end time prophecy focuses on the nation of Israel ,two baskets of figs returned to form that nation state , those in control now are the bad figs ,waiting for their father to return

 

[Davy]

You said all that to not say who you believe is the woman???

It's my understanding of what you have stated about your position that 'your' interpretation of the symbolic "woman" of Rev.12 is based on your belief in a Pre-trib Rapture theory, their 'tribulation saints' idea. There's no Biblical basis for that idea in the Scriptures. That idea instead is a doctrine from men, not from God's Word. So the two halves of Daniel's final symbolic "one week" aren't just about Jews and Jerusalem. It's about the saints in Christ Jesus too, the Church, both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles together, on earth, patiently waiting on the true Jesus Christ to return 'after'... the tribulation, as written.