(Adultery) C.I. Scofield And Dispensationalism's Foundations

[teamventure]

I have given you a clear and concise answer, I disagree with your opinions

My question was, what is harmfull about pretrib doctrine which you have not answered.

 

[No Pre-TB]

My question was, what is harmfull about pretrib doctrine which you have not answered.

If I may:
1. It’s not a doctrine
2. It doesn’t prepare the believer for what is to come. They expect to escape. Christ prayed for the apostles to remain awake and not sleep so that they would be spiritually strong in difficult times.
3. I realize this will mean nothing to you perhaps, but many believe it is a false teaching. Let’s pretend for a minute and say it is…do you want to learn and teach others falsely even if you were ignorant to it being false? Or do you want the truth?

The problem is that those who want to show Pre-Trib believers this “truth”, do so in a argumentative way. Not just that, but almost devoid of love with little scriptural support. They do a disservice.

 

[teamventure]

If I may:
1. It’s not a doctrine
2. It doesn’t prepare the believer for what is to come. They expect to escape. Christ prayed for the apostles to remain awake and not sleep so that they would be spiritually strong in difficult times.
3. I realize this will mean nothing to you perhaps, but many believe it is a false teaching. Let’s pretend for a minute and say it is…do you want to learn and teach others falsely even if you were ignorant to it being false? Or do you want the truth?

The problem is that those who want to show Pre-Trib believers this “truth”, do so in a argumentative way. Not just that, but almost devoid of love with little scriptural support. They do a disservice.

Thank you for being respectful.

For those reading I would assert that they do it devoid of love because it is not the spirit of love at work and with little scriptural support because it's not the spirit of truth at work.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Thank you for being respectful.

For those reading I would assert that they do it devoid of love because it is not the spirit of love at work and with little scriptural support because it's not the spirit of truth at work.

Perhaps not coming from them. But, the idea that we avoid persecution is unscriptural. In fact, Paul and really hundreds if not more believers suffered death by hanging, fire, decapitation, fed to beasts, stretched out to pieces, used as an archery target and more so. We are to suffer for him and we are like sheep for the slaughter.

To mistake tribulation for wrath is a great error. The 2 words are not even alike. Thlipsis is tribulation which means persecution. For wrath, there are 2 NT words. Orge and Thumos. Thumos is out poured wrath whereas Orge is specific judgment. Neither of these two relate to great tribulation. As a matter of fact, we are protected from God’s Orge but not tribulation.

If you want to know more, and are sincere to hear it, I’ll indulge you. If your mind is made up on Pre-TB, I will pray you’ll open up to understanding more.

Rev 4:1 is the Pre-TB go to rapture verse. Where in scripture has John ever been a symbol for the church universal? He hasn’t. Then how can Pre-TRibbers do exactly what they tell others not to do? That is to read it literally and apply proper understanding to avoid exegesis. Yet they make John the church and do exactly what we’re not supposed to do. If it were a rapture verse, why would we ascend through an open door in heaven and God tell us “let me show you the things hereafter?”

 

[teamventure]

Perhaps not coming from them. But, the idea that we avoid persecution is unscriptural. In fact, Paul and really hundreds if not more believers suffered death by hanging, fire, decapitation, fed to beasts, stretched out to pieces, used as an archery target and more so. We are to suffer for him and we are like sheep for the slaughter.

To mistake tribulation for wrath is a great error. The 2 words are not even alike. Thlipsis is tribulation which means persecution. For wrath, there are 2 NT words. Orge and Thumos. Thumos is out poured wrath whereas Orge is specific judgment. Neither of these two relate to great tribulation. As a matter of fact, we are protected from God’s Orge but not tribulation.

If you want to know more, and are sincere to hear it, I’ll indulge you. If your mind is made up on Pre-TB, I will pray you’ll open up to understanding more.

Rev 4:1 is the Pre-TB go to rapture verse. Where in scripture has John ever been a symbol for the church universal? He hasn’t. Then how can Pre-TRibbers do exactly what they tell others not to do? That is to read it literally and apply proper understanding to avoid exegesis. Yet they make John the church and do exactly what we’re not supposed to do. If it were a rapture verse, why would we ascend through an open door in heaven and God tell us “let me show you the things hereafter?”

Pretribers don't believe everyone will avoid persecution. In fact they believe that millions of saints will be beheaded for their testimony.

You're getting hung up on the word tribulation. Instead look up the 70th week of Daniel, the time of Jacobs trouble.
(Actually confusing the general word tribulation in scripture with the term tribulation as it applies to the end times is misleading)

The pretibers I know don't believe that about John being the church.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Pretribers don't believe everyone will avoid persecution. In fact they believe that millions of saints will be beheaded for their testimony.

You're getting hung up on the word tribulation. Instead look up the 70th week of Daniel, the time of Jacobs trouble.
(Actually confusing the general word tribulation in scripture with the term tribulation as it applies to the end times is misleading)

The pretibers I know don't believe that about John being the church.

Im not hung up on the word at all. It is quite mistaken for wrath consistently in churches, books and websites with Pre-TB backing. My own church is Pre-TB, I’m very familiar with its teaching.

There are some Pre-TB believers that would say as you, persecution will come. But the same (perhaps not you) will say but not the great tribulation. They say that’s different. Persecution whether wide spread or localized is still persecution.

There is no need to read upon Daniel’s week. I’m familiar with it. But thank you for the suggestion.

 

[GEN2REV]

Pre-trib and dual covenant theology are staples of conventional Christianity,

That's for sure.

Modern Mainstream Churchianity.

 

[teamventure]

Im not hung up on the word at all. It is quite mistaken for wrath consistently in churches, books and websites with Pre-TB backing. My own church is Pre-TB, I’m very familiar with its teaching.

There are some Pre-TB believers that would say as you, persecution will come. But the same (perhaps not you) will say but not the great tribulation. They say that’s different. Persecution whether wide spread or localized is still persecution..

The great tribulation will come (second 3 1/2 years) but we won't be around for it or the 1st half.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes!! Satan loves to attack men of God but woe to those that help him!!!

If we're not calling out False Teachers in the pulpit, we're not doing our job as Christians.

Keeping quiet about known deceptions puts the blood of those that are led astray on your hands.

 

[GEN2REV]

The great tribulation will come (second 3 1/2 years) but we won't be around for it or the 1st half.

See ya on the Last Day.

John 6:39
John 6:40
John 6:44
John 6:54
John 11:24
John 12:48

 

[GEN2REV]

So hypothetically, if they are false deception, then they would be harmfull. Dual covenant results in love for Israel and pre trib results in hope for the future.
What's the harm in that?

There's not much wrong in hoping for something that's unbiblical, but if you're teaching it to others, you're in danger of hellfire ... for them and for yourself.

That's pretty harmful.

 

[teamventure]

See ya on the Last Day.

John 6:39
John 6:40
John 6:44
John 6:54
John 11:24
John 12:48

Amen brother!

 

[Truth7t7]

Pretribers don't believe everyone will avoid persecution. In fact they believe that millions of saints will be beheaded for their testimony.

You're getting hung up on the word tribulation. Instead look up the 70th week of Daniel, the time of Jacobs trouble.
(Actually confusing the general word tribulation in scripture with the term tribulation as it applies to the end times is misleading)

The pretibers I know don't believe that about John being the church.

I disagree, the whole foundation of the pre-trib teaching is to escape the tribulation and beheadings

So you can better understand the propaganda surrounding the pre-trib rapture, in the 70's-80's they created several low budget movies to display the pre-trib teaching, as people are raptured away, with Antichrist death squads seeking those that refuse the mark, no medical, food, run and hide!

These propaganda movies pushing fear were played in churches across America on Friday/Saturday nights for "Decades"

The Rapture Propaganda Movies:

A Thief In The Night (1972)

A Distant Thunder (1978)

Image Of The Beast (1981)

The Prodigal Planet (1983)

 

[GEN2REV]

Amen brother!

This is not a dig, I'm sincerely interested.

Have you ever read the Bible cover to cover, on your own, without anybody teaching it to you as you go?

 

[teamventure]

There's not much wrong in hoping for something that's unbiblical, but if you're teaching it to others, you're in danger of hellfire ... for them and for yourself.

That's pretty harmful.

I agree dual covenant is unbiblical

However, there is too much scripture that points to pretrib for it to be called false teaching.

 

[teamventure]

This is not a dig, I'm sincerely interested.

Have you ever read the Bible cover to cover, on your own, without anybody teaching it to you as you go?

That's the only way I read the Bible.

 

[GEN2REV]

I agree dual covenant is unbiblical

However, there is too much scripture that points to pretrib for it to be called false teaching.

Do you only know the scriptures that seem to point to it or do you consider all the scriptures that completely contradict it?

 

[teamventure]

I disagree, the whole foundation of the pre-trib teaching is to escape the tribulation and beheadings

Pretribers believe the beheadings will happen, mostly to those who find faith after being left behind.

 

[teamventure]

Do you only know the scriptures that seem to point to it or do you consider all the scriptures that completely contradict it?

I understand the context that they don't.

 

[Truth7t7]

Pretribers believe the beheadings will happen, mostly to those who find faith after being left behind.

Once again the whole pre-trib platform is built upon escaping, and your response just proves my claim