After the Devil is Cast Out

[Davy]

Satan could accuse the Old Covenant faithful saints before God in heaven because none could be saved before the Son of God was born of a woman.

Made up speculation, because Old Testament times is not the timing that Revelation 12:7-10 is about. The "power of Christ" did NOT come in Old Testament times, even as you have testified in your above sentence. So how could Rev.12:10 be about Satan accusing the saints before God's throne having ENDED back in Old Testament times??? Like I said, you don't know The Scriptures and are just throwing out speculation.

 

[Davy]

What is going on in Revelation 12 after the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension? - "there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Those Rev.12:7-17 verses DID NOT HAPPEN at the cross. Those events ARE STILL FUTURE, and very soon to come at the end of this world.

 

[Davy]

WPM Satan isn't omnipresent, when he was cast unto the earth that was it, the door to heaven was shut

That DID NOT HAPPEN when Satan fell. He is STILL ABLE TO APPEAR IN HEAVEN TODAY, and accuse us before God's Throne. The timing Rev.12:7-17 is for the very 'end' of this world, not past history.

Jesus warned us already that AFTER the cross, "the prince of this world" is COMING.

 

[Davy]

The sons of God are not the heavenly host. Your teachers have taught you wrong.

Yeah they are, ALL... references in the Old Testament Books to the "sons of God" is about ANGELS. Those who don't understand the difference with how that term is used between OT and NT Books is because of their 'fleshy' carnal thinking.

The "sons of God" label is about the Heavenly manifestation, not a FLESH manifestation.

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

HOW are we "now" the sons of God like John says? And if John was pointing to our flesh today, then why would he include that idea about it does NOT YET APPEAR WHAT WE SHALL BE, and then pointing to Christ's Heavenly body state? One cannot... understand that using their 'fleshy' mind! Wake up! And those whom God did not call can't teach you what it means either.

1 Cor 15:44-47
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
KJV

When Lord Jesus went to Heaven, His body was made a "quickening spirit" according to Apostle Paul. Thus Christ's body in Heaven today IS NOT A FLESH AND BLOOD BODY like some idiotic preachers wrongly teach. Apostle Paul made it plain that a flesh and blood body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50).

Thus the "sons of God" label for CHRISTIANS is about that glorious Heavenly "spiritual body" in the world to come, which is a body like Christ's Heavenly body. And that is WHY that label in the Old Testament Books is about that Heavenly body state LIKE the angels...

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us otherwise. Both heavenly hosts, i.e., the beasts, the Little Horn and Satan, and the judged kings of the earth, are gathered like prisoners in the Bottomless pit to await the time of their punishment after many days.

But... WHEN that happens, none of them will be in a flesh body any longer, because on the day of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord", no one will be in a flesh body anymore. This world in the flesh will be over. Everyone... will be in their "spiritual body", including the wicked, because the spiritual body is the body TYPE of the world to come. That is why there will be a "resurrection unto damnation" also, what Paul had hope in for the "unjust" in the world to come (Acts 24:15).

 

[Davy]

Where does it mention the abyss? It is talking about hell. Different matter.

The abyss is about the abode of the wicked called "hell". Per the end of Rev.20, the abode of hell goes into... the future "lake of fire". Have ye not read?

 

[Timtofly]

No, I'm not saying that at all. How exactly did you get that from what I said?

You agreed they rebelled and were cast out at the birth of Jesus.

Can you clarify when they were cast out of heaven, if not at the birth of Jesus?

 

[WPM]

Those Rev.12:7-17 verses DID NOT HAPPEN at the cross. Those events ARE STILL FUTURE, and very soon to come at the end of this world.

Not true. Revelation 12 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.

Satan's defeat came through His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. Here is when He got His eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection were the decisive blows against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

Before being cast out of heaven through Christ’s victorious assault on his kingdom the devil had access to both heaven and earth. He had the ability to come before God to accuse the brethren of their sins. When he was cast down he no longer had access to heaven but only to earth.

Revelation 12:11 tells us that “they (the Church) overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony.” Satan can be overcome in this life.

Satan is curtailed when the Church operates in and under the anointing and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ’s life, death and resurrection have opened the door and bust the devil aside. As ambassadors of another nation (a more powerful heavenly nation), we have been given authority over the devices of the enemy. We can defeat in our lives and through the spread of the Gospel.

 

[Davy]

Never. The context is that angels and humans were created at the same time as creation in the first 6 days.

No such idea is written in God's Word. You are speculating.

The Job Scripture is pointing to ANGELS as the "sons of God", NOT flesh humans.

 

[Davy]

You are forcing your own beliefs on the sacred text.

No, he is not. He is right about that Isaiah 24 prophecy, which is about the kings of the earth taken and put in Satan's pit with him on the day Jesus comes, and their being 'visited' after many days is a metaphorical reference to the "thousand years" of Christ's future reign over all nations while Satan is locked in his pit prison per Rev.20. Even Isaiah 14 has a pointer for that future time when Satan is locked in his pit prison, and we see him and say, "Is this the man that...".

 

[WPM]

The abyss is about the abode of the wicked called "hell". Per the end of Rev.20, the abode of hell goes into... the future "lake of fire". Have ye not read?

No so. Humans go to hell. Demons are restrained in a spiritual prison - the abyss. Both are banished to the lake of fire when Jesus comes. The abyss is not a geographical place but a spiritual condition of restraint. Please remember demons are spirits. Satan and his minions were injured at the cross, Satan’s head is now bruised. His movement is impaired. He is incapacitated.

Satan is a spiritual being. We are therefore looking in Revelation 20 at spiritual chains and a spiritual prison. The abyss is a spiritual condition. A physical chain and a physical prison will not cut it. The restraint upon him is spiritual. He is like a dog on a chain. A chain does not prevent movement, it limits movement.

Do prisoners have movement within a prison?
Can prisoners hurt?
Can prisoners steal?
Can prisoners kill?
Can prisoners scheme?
Can prisoners commit disorder?

Of course they do.

The wicked are repeatedly depicted in Scripture as being in a prison and being in chains, does that suggest an inability to move?

Of course not!

Spiritual enemies are bound in spiritual chains and are placed in a spiritual prison. This occurred at and through the first Advent. The dragon is currently spiritually bound with spiritual chains in a spiritual prison. This is a symbolism representing restraint in order for the Gospel to reach the Gentiles (ethos). We all know that Satan is not a literal physical dragon or serpent. This is imagery.

 

[rwb]

Like I said before, you don't understand the Revelation 12:1-5 events about Satan (that "red dragon"). And the reason is because you do not know The Scriptures, and that includes Scripture in God's Word about the overthrow in the old world by Satan. God has HID it from you, because it is given in the form of parables in 'certain' Old Testament Scriptures.

And I won't show you where to find it because of your 'haughtiness'. Ask others here, because I know there are others here that well know what Scriptures I'm talking about. Or ask your preacher, IF you think he might have studied His Bible enough to know.

You've skirted around the question Davy!

"Where in Scripture do you find this "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven?"

I'll answer the question for you Davy! NOWHERE in the creation account do we find what you call "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven!

As always you prove it is you who present MUCH speculation, guessing and opinions that cannot be supported by Scripture!

 

[Timtofly]

You are forcing your own beliefs on the sacred text.

So are you calling the sons of God, the heavenly host.

A son is one who is in the image of the father. Humans are in the image of God. Angels are not in the image of God, any where in Scripture.

They can take on human form, but were not created as sons of God.

 

[Davy]

Yes Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation, these are future events unfulfilled

There will be a literal human man that will proclaim to be God on this earth, he will have great world power literally

That part in underlined bold is speculation. God's Word does NOT tell us the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah will be FLESH HUMAN MAN, as that is what you're actually speculating.

Satan himself, that "dragon" of the Book of Revelation, is who we are shown in God's Word that is coming. Even Lord Jesus showed it with revealing that "Hereafter... the prince of this world cometh..." (John 14:30).

Satan has the image of man, just as ALL the angels do, because the image of man ORIGINATES FROM GOD'S OWN IMAGE per Genesis 1:26-27.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ. I'd be very careful listening to many of these here that push the Jew's fleshy reasoning, which is why they cannot understand Biblical metaphor and many heavenly matters, because they are too focused on the flesh.

 

[WPM]

No, he is not. He is right about that Isaiah 24 prophecy, which is about the kings of the earth taken and put in Satan's pit with him on the day Jesus comes, and their being 'visited' after many days is a metaphorical reference to the "thousand years" of Christ's future reign over all nations while Satan is locked in his pit prison per Rev.20. Even Isaiah 14 has a pointer for that future time when Satan is locked in his pit prison, and we see him and say, "Is this the man that...".

Don't agree. Isaiah 14:15-18, Isaiah 24:21-22 and Isaiah 66:22-24 all correlate. When Jesus comes the demonic realm is destroyed by being banished to the Lake of Fire. None of these passages make any mention of a future sin-cursed millennial period. That is because they relate to the eternal state. The wicked and the demons are placed as an eternal reminder to the righteous of the eternal justice of God.

Isaiah 14:15-18: “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.”

This is talking about the lake of fire in eternity!!!

Isaiah 24:21-22: “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.”

This is talking about the lake of fire in eternity!!!

Isaiah 66:22-24: “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”

This is talking about the lake of fire in eternity!!!

This is just hyperbole language describing the reality of eternity in terms that the OT listener/reader could easily grasp. That is nothing more than poetic verbiage used to impress eternity to we humans stuck in time.

 

[Davy]

You've skirted around the question Davy!

"Where in Scripture do you find this "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven?"

I'll answer the question for you Davy! NOWHERE in the creation account do we find what you call "original rebellion" by Satan and his angels, and their ejection from heaven!

As always you prove it is you who present MUCH speculation, guessing and opinions that cannot be supported by Scripture!

I didn't skirt around anything, because I stated due to your haughtiness, I will NOT show YOU the relevant Scriptures about Satan's overthrow in the world before this present one. Just keep thinking in your fleshy mind, and maybe one of these days you will study and actually 'believe' what God's Word says, instead of you just speculating about what it says.

 

[rwb]

Made up speculation, because Old Testament times is not the timing that Revelation 12:7-10 is about. The "power of Christ" did NOT come in Old Testament times, even as you have testified in your above sentence. So how could Rev.12:10 be about Satan accusing the saints before God's throne having ENDED back in Old Testament times??? Like I said, you don't know The Scriptures and are just throwing out speculation.

You seem to lack any comprehension for reading. You're like a small child just learning to read, but lacking understanding of the meaning of the words written. When you graduate from kindergarten reading level perhaps we can further discuss?

 

[Ziggy]

Luk 10:17
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

How do you hear this sentence....

I beheld Satan, as lightening fall from heaven
or
I beheld Satan as lightening, fall from heaven.
or
I beheld, Satan as lightning, fall from heaven

Zec 9:14
And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Where we were, where we are, and where we're headed.
And everything inbetween


Hugs

 

[WPM]

I didn't skirt around anything, because I stated due to your haughtiness, I will NOT show YOU the relevant Scriptures about Satan's overthrow in the world before this present one. Just keep thinking in your fleshy mind, and maybe one of these days you will study and actually 'believe' what God's Word says, instead of you just speculating about what it says.

LOL. Tell the truth. You have nothing. This is why you duck and dive round every single biblical argument. That is why you are into petty name-calling. That is why you run from every discussion when challenged.