n2thelight
Well-Known Member
I have no interest to discuss the resurrection, you have been shown clearly Gods words of truth regarding the subject below
All good, stop then!!!
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I have no interest to discuss the resurrection, you have been shown clearly Gods words of truth regarding the subject below
Paul makes it clear that's true, but you haven't a clue what Paul is saying. You in fact call Paul a liar and not only Paul but also God who inspired the scriptures to be written. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17 Paul makes it clear that the resurrection of the righteous doesn't start until the second presence/Coming begins. That's not going to change just because you're trying to teach what you're teaching, it certainly isn't what Paul taught.
You have the unsaved spiritually dead receiving glorified bodies, and going into what you believe to be a Millennial Kingdom On EarthYou the one that has no clue, when you quote scripture please stay with the subject.
I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
I Thessalonians 4:14
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].
It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them.
The subject is where are the dead
I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."
This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.
"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.
Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.
Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.
To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".
Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.
Why?
Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.
I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.
I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.
Direct Questions?You the one that has no clue, when you quote scripture please stay with the subject.
I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
I Thessalonians 4:14
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].
It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them.
The subject is where are the dead
I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."
This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.
"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.
Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.
Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.
To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".
Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.
Why?
Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.
I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.
I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.
You Continue To Use The Word "Millennium" That Will Never Take Place, In Total Disregard Of The Scripture BelowPaul makes it clear that's true, but you haven't a clue what Paul is saying. You in fact call Paul a liar and not only Paul but also God who inspired the scriptures to be written. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17 Paul makes it clear that the resurrection of the righteous doesn't start until the second presence/Coming begins. That's not going to change just because you're trying to teach what you're teaching, it certainly isn't what Paul taught.
Direct Questions?
1. Do you believe in a future human man to fulfill the role of (The Beast) as seen in Revelation 13:4 below?
Revelation 13:4KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
2. Do you believe in a future (Great Tribulation) as seen in Matthew 24:21 below?
Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
So God's Word is a distraction?The timing when Satan was bound from gathering the nations to battle in Revelation 20:3 has no significance, and is nothing but a distraction
Like me asking you to give a time when God created the 6th vial to be poured out in Revelation 16:12?
P S. At no time did I State Satan wasn't bound, as the 6th vial being poured out, are his chains in binding
Satan Bound By A Literal Lock, Key, & Chain?
From Ace Hardware or Home Depot, Smiles!
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?
Scripture clearly teaches they are separate, as (The Beast) and (The False Prophet) are separate humans, that will (Both) Be Cast (Alive) Into The Lake Of Fire1 No the false prophet the man of sin the anti christ , are all the same person satan himself
The first beast is the one world government ,which shall fall apart (deadly wound) the 2nd beast is a religious system under satan that will heal that wound , which will then turn into a one world religious system as all the world will believe satan to be Christ
2 There are two tribulations, and this tribulation is the tribulation of the deception. This is the tribulation of the locust army, spoken of in the book of Joel. This locust army will so pervert the minds of all men on earth, that the truth of God word will be as a desolate wilderness. It is at this time that the Holy Spirit will speak through the elect, as recorded in Acts 2:6-8.
I Cant Understand Why You Disregard The Very Clear Scripture BelowCan't figure out why you see it this way .
Genesis 9:11 "And I will establish My covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."
So see now your gonna say not by flood but by fire which means God is playing games with us .
You the one that has no clue, when you quote scripture please stay with the subject.
I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
I Thessalonians 4:14
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].
It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them.
The subject is where are the dead
I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."
This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.
"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.
Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.
Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.
To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".
Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.
Why?
Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.
I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.
I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.[/QUOTE\]
You're saying, that these who are dead in Christ, are not dead? That before Jesus second presence/Coming happens, you don't believe they're dead but instead alive with Jesus?
It says in the scripture at 1 Thessalonians 4: 15, 16 that those who belong to Jesus and are alive, meaning on Earth, when the second presence/coming happens will not be resurrected first. But that the Lord Jesus will descend from heaven with a commanding call and then those who are already dead will be resurrected first. These who are resurrected first are sleeping in death until they are resurrected back to life and that happens just as this scripture says it happens when the second presence/Coming of Jesus happens. I'm not going to deny this scripture because you do.
As there is no 'rapture to heaven', there is also no end to the earth: Eccl 1:4, Psalms 78:69, Isaiah 45:18
Pretty Simple, A New Heaven And Earth, 5th Grade Reading ComprehensionWhat do you do with "a new heaven and a new earth"?
Compare Isa. 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
To Revelation 21:1
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Scripture clearly teaches they are separate, as (The Beast) and (The False Prophet) are separate humans, that will (Both) Be Cast (Alive) Into The Lake Of Fire
Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
As we are clearly told; The new heaven and earth come AFTER the Millennium and the final Judgement. Revelation 21What do you do with "a new heaven and a new earth"?
Compare Isa. 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
To Revelation 21:1
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
The New Heaven And Earth Takes Place At The Second Coming, When Jesus Christ "Dissolve" This Earth By Fire.As we are clearly told; The new heaven and earth come AFTER the Millennium and the final Judgement. Revelation 21
Your Claim Is False, The Heavens And Earth Will Be "Dissolved" By The Lords Fire In Judgement, They Will "Pass Away"but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens being on fire will be dissolved and the elements being intensely hot will melt! But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” 2 Peter 3:5-7, 10-13.
Now in 2 Peter 3: 5-7 it shows that a heaven and earth perished during the days of Noah when the Flood happened. How do I know, because Peter tells us that the heaven and earth that are now are store up and exist now are reserved for judgment and destruction. So during the days of Noah was the planet obliterated out of existence, of course not was the heavens the physical universe destroyed out of existence, of course not but the scriptures let us know that a heaven and earth pass away during Noah's day. What was the heaven and earth in Noah's day that passed away?
"Heavens" refer to invisible spirit creatures that had joined Satan in rebellion and materialized to cohabit with women. This arrangement was ended by the flood. "Earth" meant the wicked human creatures living on this planet, and who were destroyed by the flood. This isn't an arbitrary view, or private interpretation, because the scriptures frequently use the designation of a place or realm to mean the inhabitants of such a place or realm. Mankind uses such places as Russia, Egypt or Mexico and can mean the place or the people, it depends on the context. Consider these scriptures: " hear, O heavens and give ear, O earth." "All the earth sought the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom." "Sing to Jehovah, all the earth." The context of these scriptures show that it wasn't the physical heavens and earth that are being told to listen. It was talking about person's being told to listen. The planet earth nor the universe have ears to listen with, but the angels living in heaven can listen and the people living on planet earth could go and listen to Solomon, and sing praises to Jehovah God.
Satan and his demons still exist though not in the same arrangement as before the flood of Noah's day. Satan and his demons are the heavens that will be destroyed at Armageddon. People who are organized in opposition to Jehovah rulership by not being submissive to the king Jehovah God has put over the earth, his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, these people opposed to Jehovah rulership, is the earth that will be destroyed at Armageddon, not the planet earth. Isaiah 1:2; 1 king 10:24; Psalms 96:1; Genesis 6:1,2; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 6:12; Revelation 12:9,12; 20:1,2.
No place in my KJV Holy Bible does it state (The Beast) is shot in the head, more make believe Sci-FiNot human .
Also you actually think this man gonna get shot in the head and be brought back to life by the other man ?