Against Gnosticism

[CoreIssue]

This is a misrepresentation of what I said. We are not a spirit...nor are we a body. We are a soul that has a body and a spirit.

On judgment day our souls (us) will be judged....whether they are worthy of continuing life....and the quality of that life.

It looks like you did not read the links.

Everyone has an eternal spirit, including the damned.

Until the first and second resurrections we are only spirits, unless the saints still living on the earth.

At the resurrection our bodies rejoin our spirits. No mention of a soul.

Saints are judge for rewards. At the white throne judgment that damned are judge for punishment.

 

[Episkopos]

It looks like you did not read the links.

Everyone has an eternal spirit, including the damned.

Until the first and second resurrections we are only spirits, unless the saints still living on the earth.

At the resurrection our bodies rejoin our spirits. No mention of a soul.

Saints are judge for rewards. At the white throne judgment that damned are judge for punishment.

This is science fiction. We are never spirits. We have a spirit that returns to the Lord. We are only a soul....always a soul.

And GWT is about the book of life. Only they who are not written in it are cast into the fire.

 

[CoreIssue]

The wedding supper of the lamb and the judgment of rewards are during the trib. The GWT is at the end of time.

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Dichotomy or trichotomy?

Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

Does our soul or spirit go to heaven?

The spirit of John was called to heaven, not his soul

Nowhere says our soul goes to heaven.
I posted to definitions of words for soul. Neither agree with you but you reject both.

You never offer any proof for what you're saying.

 

[Enoch111]

Nowhere says our soul goes to heaven.

Actually Rev 6:9-11 does say that souls go to Heaven:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:,10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary
under the altar--As the blood of sacrificial victims slain on the altar was poured at the bottom of the altar, so the souls of those sacrificed for Christ's testimony are symbolically represented as under the altar, in heaven; for the life or animal soul is in the blood, and blood is often represented as crying for vengeance ( Genesis 4:10 ).

The altar in heaven, antitypical to the altar of sacrifice, is Christ crucified. As it is the altar that sanctifies the gift, so it is Christ alone who makes our obedience, and even our sacrifice of life for the truth, acceptable to God. The sacrificial altar was not in the sanctuary, but outside; so Christ's literal sacrifice and the figurative sacrifice of the martyrs took place, not in the heavenly sanctuary, but outside, here on earth. The only altar in heaven is that antitypical to the temple altar of incense. The blood of the martyrs cries from the earth under Christ's cross, whereon they may be considered virtually to have been sacrificed; their souls cry from under the altar of incense, which is Christ in heaven, by whom alone the incense of praise is accepted before God. They are under Christ, in His immediate presence, shut up unto Him in joyful eager expectancy until He shall come to raise the sleeping dead. Compare the language of 2 Maccabees 7:36 as indicating Jewish opinion on the subject. Our brethren who have now suffered a short pain are dead under (Greek) God's covenant of everlasting life.

Upon the death of a saint, both the soul and spirit go to be with Christ. And at the Resurrection/Rapture, the Lord brings them with Him to be united to their resurrected, immortal, and glorified bodies, then taken back to Heaven.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It is unfortunate that we need a thread to expose another man made "ism". But people can't help themselves I suppose. So the purpose of this thread is to expose the error and heresy of Gnosticism...which at least some on this board have fallen into.

Now there are various degrees of Gnosticsm...and it leads different people to different conclusions. But the essence is this. It is a denial that we are NOT our bodies nor our spirits...but a living soul caught somewhere between the two.

Gnosticism denies the responsibility of actually BEING holy and uses as a excuse that the body is evil of itself. So then this denies that Jesus was a man like us....that somehow His flesh was different to ours.

The truth is that the flesh is WEAK...not evil.

The truth is that we are a living soul...not a spirit.

We HAVE a body and we HAVE a spirit...but we ARE a soul.

(Below is just hopefully helpful writing tips)

I find a lot of the time labels aren't the most helpful things in the world. A stronger way to talk about your point here would to be to just talk about your point, sans the labels. When you do have to use nouns ("body", "spirit", etc) it's best to define them in text, so people know exactly what definition you're using (cause definitions do vary).

 

[Episkopos]

The wedding supper of the lamb and the judgment of rewards are during the trib. The GWT is at the end of time.

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Dichotomy or trichotomy?

Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

Does our soul or spirit go to heaven?

The spirit of John was called to heaven, not his soul

Nowhere says our soul goes to heaven.
I posted to definitions of words for soul. Neither agree with you but you reject both.

You never offer any proof for what you're saying.

James 1 :21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

Mat. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat. 16:26 "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

John was IN the Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

(Below is just hopefully helpful writing tips)

I find a lot of the time labels aren't the most helpful things in the world. A stronger way to talk about your point here would to be to just talk about your point, sans the labels. When you do have to use nouns ("body", "spirit", etc) it's best to define them in text, so people know exactly what definition you're using (cause definitions do vary).

what is not understood so often is the definition itself. But clarity is important..

 

[Jane_Doe22]

what is not understood so often is the definition itself. But clarity is important..

I totally totally agree that definitions are SO frequently misunderstood. Especially is theological settings. Hence my recommendation on stating clear definitions right away, and then going from there.

 

[Episkopos]

I totally totally agree that definitions are SO frequently misunderstood. Especially is theological settings. Hence my recommendation on stating clear definitions right away, and then going from there.

OK

The body: our outer shell in the natural world.
The soul: who we really are...our thoughts, our will, our mind and hearts,.
Our spirit: a place where God speaks to us...our connection to God. The inner sanctum of the heart.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

OK

The body: our outer shell in the natural world.
The soul: who we really are...our thoughts, our will, our mind and hearts,.
Our spirit: a place where God speaks to us...our connection to God. The inner sanctum of the heart.

That is helpful. I know many people (including myself) which would have used different definitions for those.

 

[Episkopos]

That is helpful. I know many people (including myself) which would have used different definitions for those.

Do tell...

 

[CoreIssue]

James 1 :21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

Mat. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat. 16:26 "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

It does not mean holy spirit. John was there looking around and talking.

https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.htm

This link talks of both.

It does not mean holy spirit. John was there looking around and talking.

.The Soul Versus The Spirit

I don't dismiss either but you dismiss the spirit. Is not a resolved issue and I'm not sure it will ever be on this earth

Do you type your posts in a word processor or something and then paste them in. Every time I quote your post the text is all messed up.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here's a good read:

Soul - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online

Animals are souls as well

A spirit is that eternal noncoporial reality while the soul is the totality of our being.

 

[Episkopos]

Here's a good read:

Soul - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online

Animals are souls as well

A spirit is that eternal noncoporial reality while the soul is the totality of our being.

Stick with the bible...that should be evident.

 

[CoreIssue]

I do stick with the bible.

 

[aspen]

Gnoticism is a tempting heresy - i think it is also part of the false understanding nonbelievers have about Christianity - along with reward based doctrine

 

[CoreIssue]

And GWT is about the book of life. Only they who are not written in it are cast into the fire.

I forgot something.

I forgot something. The GWT uses more than the book of life. There are also books about the deeds of people that will go toward determining their punishment. Punishment is not one size fits all.
​

Revelation 20:11-14 New International Version (NIV)
The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Do tell...

For example, my definitions:
Body: is pretty obvious. The organic physical thing that was created in your mother's womb, now moves around with you, and will continue to exist (and decay) after your death.
Spirit: isn't something you can just see with your eyes, still is important. It's the incorporeal part of thoughts, wills, personality, etc. The most obvious example you'll see is upon death: a person's spirit leaves their body and now no one is "home" so to say. The Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit.
Soul: body + spirit.

There's a whole bunch of other definitions in philosophy, theology, and people's just general perceptions.

 

[CoreIssue]

Curious, what do you do with the animals having souls and such as
1 Samuel 28 ?

As for souls under the altar.

The Souls Under The Altar

 

[Episkopos]

Curious, what do you do with the animals having souls and such as
1 Samuel 28 ?

As for souls under the altar.

The Souls Under The Altar

You'll have to actually quote what you are speaking of.