ALL TIMELINES NEED TO BE REVISED

[Trekson]

Hi Folks, As I was praying and studying the Word, God pointed out something to me that I must have read a thousand times but never made the connection until today. Let me first say that this in no way backs up my timeline POV. In fact, it destroys it just as it will if you're pre-trib, pre-wrath or post -trib, if you're willing to accept the truth of God's word. We all have our little timelines that we create to make sense and put in order the events of the 70th week. Well, this nugget will assuredly destroy them all. Perhaps you think I'm being overly dramatic, well you tell me. The topic is the Three Woes.

Rev. 8:13 - "[sup] [/sup]And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The first woe is the 5th trump as found in Rev.9:12 - "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

The second woe is after the 6th trump and after the Jerusalem earthquake that destroys a tenth of the city and kills 7000 ( Rev.11:13) . Rev. 11:14 - "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Now if we were to go in order it would seem that the 7th trump would be the third woe! IT IS NOT! I had always believed it made sense and never really considered anything else.

However, the third woe ( the last time a woe is mentioned in Revelations ) is found in Rev. 12:12 - "[sup] [/sup]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This third and final time a woe is mentioned is connected to the originating verse, Rev. 8:13 by the underlined, highlighted phrase. Since this is the case, shortly after this verse we find in Rev. 12:14 - "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As we all know the highlighted, underlined phrase means 3 1/2 yrs. So here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week. That is in no one's timeline that I have ever heard. It's playing havoc with mine, that's for sure.

So I've spent the day trying to make sense of this and asking God for understanding. I've come up with another question and a possible, tentative alternative. Please I'm asking for some serious guidance here and not a mockery by those who are unwilling to bend in the face of revealed truth.

Who said that all the seals must be within the context of the 70th week? I've always believed they were but is there any scriptural "proof"?

Here's my tentative alternative. Could WW3 as shown in the 4th seal begin the 70th week and could the a/c make a covenant based on that war that begins the week?

What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi trekson,

My take is that the third woe has to do with the final assult and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Roman army which must have lasted the 3 1/2 years you are looking for. The first two woes were finished and the third was to come quickly.

Luk 21:20


And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


I have read that there were no Christians killed in that destruction.

 

[tgwprophet]

Hi Trekson.... i had in my research found no scripture that requires the seal to be opened only during Tribulation.

I noticed that you have the woman delivering the 2nd comming of Christ mid point of Tribulation? You stated it a little differently as mid point of the 70 weeks....did you mean the 70th week? - again placing that mid point of Tribulation.
I however place the woman giving birth at the start of the 7 year period of Tribulation and this is why... First, she is given an eagles wings and protected 3 1/2 years - then she is again protected for a time and times and dividing of a time.
At the Abomination of Desolation is where I have Satan taking on physical form but being cast down at the same time the woman gives birth.

The perspective you gave is interesting and I certainly will consider it.

ok i got a possum in my bathroom and i am hoping he has left the building.

By the way... it speaks of those fleeing to the mountains ande asking the rocks to fall for protection... interesting since the Jews will be the ones doing this and because they do not agree with the New Testiment, they will not have had places in the mountains already prepared that they need only shut the doors.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Rocky, Thanks for your input but I don't believe 70AD has anything to do with Daniels' 70th week.

Hi Terry, Your response confuses me. I re-read my post and I don't see where I mentioned the middle of the "70 weeks". The woman does not give birth to a "second coming" of Christ. This is referencing His first coming.

 

[dismas]

Hi Folks, As I was praying and studying the Word, God pointed out something to me that I must have read a thousand times but never made the connection until today. Let me first say that this in no way backs up my timeline POV. In fact, it destroys it just as it will if you're pre-trib, pre-wrath or post -trib, if you're willing to accept the truth of God's word. We all have our little timelines that we create to make sense and put in order the events of the 70th week. Well, this nugget will assuredly destroy them all. Perhaps you think I'm being overly dramatic, well you tell me. The topic is the Three Woes.

Rev. 8:13 - "[sup] [/sup]And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The first woe is the 5th trump as found in Rev.9:12 - "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

The second woe is after the 6th trump and after the Jerusalem earthquake that destroys a tenth of the city and kills 7000 ( Rev.11:13) . Rev. 11:14 - "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Now if we were to go in order it would seem that the 7th trump would be the third woe! IT IS NOT! I had always believed it made sense and never really considered anything else.

However, the third woe ( the last time a woe is mentioned in Revelations ) is found in Rev. 12:12 - "[sup] [/sup]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This third and final time a woe is mentioned is connected to the originating verse, Rev. 8:13 by the underlined, highlighted phrase. Since this is the case, shortly after this verse we find in Rev. 12:14 - "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As we all know the highlighted, underlined phrase means 3 1/2 yrs. So here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week. That is in no one's timeline that I have ever heard. It's playing havoc with mine, that's for sure.

So I've spent the day trying to make sense of this and asking God for understanding. I've come up with another question and a possible, tentative alternative. Please I'm asking for some serious guidance here and not a mockery by those who are unwilling to bend in the face of revealed truth.

Who said that all the seals must be within the context of the 70th week? I've always believed they were but is there any scriptural "proof"?

Here's my tentative alternative. Could WW3 as shown in the 4th seal begin the 70th week and could the a/c make a covenant based on that war that begins the week?

What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please.

As we all know the highlighted, underlined phrase means 3 1/2 yrs. So here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week. That is in no one's timeline that I have ever heard. It's playing havoc with mine, that's for sure.

Well, I've been trying to put forward this very idea in many posts, to no avail I guess.

Look at Matt. 24:4-14. Jesus lists off the false christs, wars, famine, and plagues and then in verse 8 says that these are the beginning of birth pangs. In other words, the seals (which mirror the false christ, war famine, plagues of Seals 1-4) are only the prelude. 12-24-16, Hannukah lands on Christmas through 9 months of birth pangs is the Rev 12:1 star alignment on 9-23-17. 12-24-16 plus 2300 days to purify the 3rd temple is 4-29-23, the last day of Passover. Subtract 2520 days to get 6-4-16, which is 1260 days after the infamous 12-21-12.

Look at Rev. 2:10, Jesus says that you will have tribulation 10 days (meaning 10 years). The false christ of Seal 1 has authority for 1260 days (to trick people into worshipping the real antichrist.) Then the 7 yr covenant period - meaning when the 3rd Temple is started.

What you call WWIII is either the war in the 2nd Seal or the war described in Trumpet 6. Trumpet 6 is the Gog war, which we know is 7 years before the end, the bowl 6 Armageddon war (Israel burns the weapons of the T 6 war/ Gog war for 7 years.) So to take your assertion one step further, the end of Trumpet 6 war/ Gog war is in fact what starts the true 7 year tribulation/ the Daniel 70th week.

Getting back to the 10 year tribulation idea. At Trumpet 5, there is 5 months of torment, but only for the ungodly. After this timeframe starts the persecution: 12-21-12 plus 5 months is 5-21-13. 5-21-13 through 4-29-23 is this 10 year timeframe of persecution.

Look at Ezekiel chapters 38, 39. These refer to the Gog war (which is 7 years before the end/ Armageddon). Then immediately after in Ezekiel 40, he talks about a bronze figure and goes into measuring the 3rd Temple.

Now compare Rev chapters 9-11. In Chapter 9, John describes the Trumpet 6 war/ the Gog war, then in Chap 10 there is the mighty angel with the 7 thunders voice, then they are measuring the 3rd Temple. Then it goes to Trumpet 7 which is talking about the 3rd Temple. The 7 bowls of wrath are the same 7 years of tribulation/ Daniels 70th week. In Rev. 11:7 it says that the 2 witnesses prophecize for 3.5 years and then the beast from the sea emerges. In Rev. 11 we get this: 3rd Temple measured, 2 witnesses prophecize, then the beast from the "bottomless pit".

The "wicked prince of the covenant" (the Jewish messiah) signs the agreement with the king of the north on 6-4-16 which allows for the 3rd Temple. The prince breaks the agreement 11-16-19, so the king of the north sends in an army to take over Jerusalem and stops the sacrifices (Daniel 8:9-12). This king of the north is the "beast from the sea".

 

[tgwprophet]

Trekson, Hi you got me a bit addled here... whenyou spoke off his first comming you mean wen he was first born and you are attributing that as being desrcibed in Revelation?

 

[Trekson]

Hi Terry, The short answer to your question is Yes! (words in parenthesis mine)

Rev. 12:5 - "And she (Israel) brought forth a man child, (Christ) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron(in the millennium): and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne." (Christ's ascension as depicted in Acts 1:9-11). The next verse skips over a couple of thousand years but the "woman" is now believing or uncompromising Israel who goes into hiding, who refuse to accept the mark of the beast. This theme is repeated in vs. 13 but when they are protected by God, the 144,000 among them, then Satan turns his wrath to the Gentile church in vs. 17. The great trib is confined to that event and for the duration of that event only. The rapture of His church ENDS the great trib and the world is left to face the wrath of God which I thought included the trumpet judgments but based on the OP, I'm not sure about that now.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson.

Hi Folks, As I was praying and studying the Word, God pointed out something to me that I must have read a thousand times but never made the connection until today. Let me first say that this in no way backs up my timeline POV. In fact, it destroys it just as it will if you're pre-trib, pre-wrath or post -trib, if you're willing to accept the truth of God's word. We all have our little timelines that we create to make sense and put in order the events of the 70th week. Well, this nugget will assuredly destroy them all. Perhaps you think I'm being overly dramatic, well you tell me. The topic is the Three Woes.

Rev. 8:13 - "[sup] [/sup]And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The first woe is the 5th trump as found in Rev.9:12 - "One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter."

The second woe is after the 6th trump and after the Jerusalem earthquake that destroys a tenth of the city and kills 7000 ( Rev.11:13) . Rev. 11:14 - "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

Now if we were to go in order it would seem that the 7th trump would be the third woe! IT IS NOT! I had always believed it made sense and never really considered anything else.

However, the third woe ( the last time a woe is mentioned in Revelations ) is found in Rev. 12:12 - "[sup] [/sup]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This third and final time a woe is mentioned is connected to the originating verse, Rev. 8:13 by the underlined, highlighted phrase. Since this is the case, shortly after this verse we find in Rev. 12:14 - "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As we all know the highlighted, underlined phrase means 3 1/2 yrs. So here is the inescapable conclusion. At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week. That is in no one's timeline that I have ever heard. It's playing havoc with mine, that's for sure.

So I've spent the day trying to make sense of this and asking God for understanding. I've come up with another question and a possible, tentative alternative. Please I'm asking for some serious guidance here and not a mockery by those who are unwilling to bend in the face of revealed truth.

Who said that all the seals must be within the context of the 70th week? I've always believed they were but is there any scriptural "proof"?

Here's my tentative alternative. Could WW3 as shown in the 4th seal begin the 70th week and could the a/c make a covenant based on that war that begins the week?

What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please.

Calm down, calm down. You're just not making the connection. The seventh trumpet or the seventh shofar, sounded in Revelation 11:15, is an ALARM! And, yes, it IS continued throughout the vials of wrath poured out in chapter 16, and begun as the "woe" in 12:12.

But, the REASON for the seventieth Seven was to USHER IN THE MESSIAH, to "ANOINT THE MOST HOLY." The problem is that many well-meaning Christians, without a good understanding of their Jewish heritage in the Messiah, have concluded that the "tribulation" IS the "seventieth Seven" of Dani'el. That's not the case. What happened (and God knew it would and incorporated it into the prophecy in Dani'el) was that the Jews, the elders of the Tribe of Judah, who were SUPPOSED to anoint Him as their King when Yeshua` offered Himself as their King, during the first half of the seventieth Seven, the 3.5 years of the "ministry of His first Advent," failed to do so. In rejecting Him as their King, they plunged Isra'el into a 2000-year-long tribulation, "book-ended" by the two halves of the last Seven! (The "midpoint of the seventieth Seven" is HARDLY a "point!")

So, technically, there will be 3.5 years left to anoint Yeshua` as Isra'el's King, beginning as the King of the Jews, just as David's Kingdom began. However, His Coming this second time, the second Advent, is as the attack of a lion! He comes to rescue His people, both national Isra'el and persecuted believers of every nation, but in particular the Jews of Jerusalem who are prophesied to be under the boot of Gentile invaders. Think of His Coming as the strafing run of a Spitfire and the seven bowls of judgment as the rapid-firing of his guns on the enemy! This culminates in the battle at Har-Megiddown (Greek "Armageddon"), or "Tel-Megiddo" as it is known today, the "Mountain of Megiddow" south and east of Haifa, physically located at 32 degrees, 35 minutes, 4.64 seconds North, 35 degrees, 11 minutes, 0.58 seconds East in global coordinates. This Tel overlooks Gei-Yizr`e'el (the Valley of Jezreel), east of Haifa, and guards the pass in the mountains for Road 66, close to the intersection of Roads 66 and 65 in Isra'el.

Technically, the "tribulation," or "the time of Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) Trouble," ends just before or as the Messiah returns (Matthew 24:29-31), but there will be some "clean up work" for Him to perform! As He drives the enemies out of Jerusalem and Judah and chases them across the mountains of Isra'el, they will rally in the valley of Jezreel, but to no avail as He stomps them like so many grapes in a wine vat! After a war tribunal, He will begin His reign in Jerusalem and call for the rest of Isra'el to come home.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Retro, Your words: "What happened (and God knew it would and incorporated it into the prophecy in Dani'el) was that the Jews, the elders of the Tribe of Judah, who were SUPPOSED to anoint Him as their King when Yeshua` offered Himself as their King, during the first half of the seventieth Seven, the 3.5 years of the "ministry of His first Advent," failed to do so. In rejecting Him as their King, they plunged Isra'el into a 2000-year-long tribulation, "book-ended" by the two halves of the last Seven! (The "midpoint of the seventieth Seven" is HARDLY a "point!")"

I disagree with your summation. No part of Christ's ministry accomplished any part of the 70th seven. The 69th week didn't end until Christ was crucified. You can't start the 70th until the 69th was complete. So the 70th week is still future, imo and only part of that week focuses on the Jews.

There is no seven year or 3 1/2 yr. "trib period" prophesied. The great trib and the time of Jacob's Trouble, although similar, are two different events affecting two types of people. Trib on the church, the other on Israel.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson.

Hi Retro, Your words: "What happened (and God knew it would and incorporated it into the prophecy in Dani'el) was that the Jews, the elders of the Tribe of Judah, who were SUPPOSED to anoint Him as their King when Yeshua` offered Himself as their King, during the first half of the seventieth Seven, the 3.5 years of the "ministry of His first Advent," failed to do so. In rejecting Him as their King, they plunged Isra'el into a 2000-year-long tribulation, "book-ended" by the two halves of the last Seven! (The "midpoint of the seventieth Seven" is HARDLY a "point!")"

I disagree with your summation. No part of Christ's ministry accomplished any part of the 70th seven. The 69th week didn't end until Christ was crucified. You can't start the 70th until the 69th was complete. So the 70th week is still future, imo and only part of that week focuses on the Jews.

There is no seven year or 3 1/2 yr. "trib period" prophesied. The great trib and the time of Jacob's Trouble, although similar, are two different events affecting two types of people. Trib on the church, the other on Israel.

Be careful in your evaluation of Dani'el 9:24-27. Remember: you are not dealing with Western thought; these words were penned in EASTERN thought with the culture and background and language of the Middle East.

Middle Eastern thought was not so "hung up" on the chronological order of things in their story telling as it is in ours. The importance of things in the account took precedence over chronology. In that regard, if an important matter is about to be revealed within the account, it will be stated FIRST and THEN the details will be expounded. As Westerners, this can "mess with our heads," if we're not careful.

Notice that the purposes for the 70 Sevens are listed FIRST and THEN the messenger to Dani'el goes into the detail. In this regard, sometimes we see an EXPANSION of the details later in the text, much as a collapsed antique telescope is expanded for use.

Daniel 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks (Sevens) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and
to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (Sevens), and threescore and two weeks (Sevens): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after (ANY time "after"; it does NOT say "AT the end of") threescore and two weeks (Sevens) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (Notice that we have been taken all the way to the END. He now goes back...)
27 And he (the Messiah in vs. 26) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (Seven): and in the midst of the week (Seven) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (because HIS own sacrificial death sufficed, Hebrews 9 & 10) , and for the overspreading of abominations (their rejections of God's Messiah, God's CHOICE) he shall make it desolate ("Your house is left unto you desolate," Matthew 23:38) , even until the consummation (the END again), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (they shall be disciplined with whatever they had coming).
KJV

Also, the "tribulation" is not "on the church." Furthermore, the "tribulation" IS the "time of Jacob's Trouble":

Jeremiah 30:1-31:40
30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved (rescued; delivered) out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the Lord; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the Lord.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
31:1 At the same time, saith the Lord, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
2 Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.
6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the Lord our God.
7 For thus saith the Lord; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O Lord, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
11 For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the Lord, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
14 And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the Lord.
15 Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
16 Thus saith the Lord; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.
19 Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.
21 Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The Lord bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.
24 And there shall dwell in Judah itself, and in all the cities thereof together, husbandmen, and they that go forth with flocks.
25 For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul.
26 Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.
27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. (i.e., it can't happen!)
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
KJV

The word for "abomination" in Greek is "bdelugma." It's the noun that was used in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. However, the word was also used in Luke 16:15:

Luke 16:14-17
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
KJV

Paul, using the adjective form, "bdeluktos," also told Titus,

Titus 1:10-16
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
KJV

And, Paul, using the verb form, "bdelussoo," also told the Jews within the congregation at Rome,...

Romans 2:17-29
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
KJV

It was their rejections of Him that were the "abominations" that caused Him to finally leave them "desolate!"

Matthew 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

However, He did not leave them without hope! He DID say "You won't see me from now on UNTIL you shall say, 'Welcome, Comer on the authority of YHWH.'"

So, YES, Yeshua` DID fulfill much of Dani'el 9:27, and it will continue to be fulfilled until the Jews will quit punishing themselves and welcome Him back as YHWH's Messiah, the One who comes with His authority. When they can do that, He will return and fulfill the rest of Jeremiah's prophecy, as well.

 

[biggandyy]

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is not linear in chronology, i.e. there is no timeline.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Biggandy, Sorry, but I do believe that for the most part Revelations is meant to be chronological with a proscribed beginning and end.

Hi Retro, With all due respect, I read the first part of your post but couldn't get past what I feel is a monumental error. Your words: "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (Notice that we have been taken all the way to the END. He now goes back...)
27 And he (the Messiah in vs. 26) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (Seven): and in the midst of the week (Seven) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

I believe the "he" is not going back but a continuation of the "people of the prince" aka the a/c. Until that gets straightened out everything else is based on error, imho.

 

[teleiosis]

At least the first six trumpet judgments must be concluded before the middle of the 70th week. That is in no one's timeline that I have ever heard. It's playing havoc with mine, that's for sure.

I don't have a problem with the verses you're wrestling with, but then again, I have a completely different take on things than you do. I do not understand how you have come to the conclusion you have with that which I have quoted above. In the sequence of events, I place all seven Trumpets after the midpoint abomination. Indeed, I think the sixth Seal comes after the midpoint of the one 'seven' as well.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Teleosis, I placed the trumpets after the midpoint too, remember we are both pre-wrath, but I thought I explained the problem simply enough. The third woe within the context of the 7th trump timing according to scripture occurs at the midpoint of the 70th week per Rev. 12:12 & 14, not at the end as has been supposed by practically everyone.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson.

Hi Biggandy, Sorry, but I do believe that for the most part Revelations is meant to be chronological with a proscribed beginning and end.

Hi Retro, With all due respect, I read the first part of your post but couldn't get past what I feel is a monumental error. Your words: "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (Notice that we have been taken all the way to the END. He now goes back...)
27 And he (the Messiah in vs. 26) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (Seven): and in the midst of the week (Seven) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

I believe the "he" is not going back but a continuation of the "people of the prince" aka the a/c. Until that gets straightened out everything else is based on error, imho.

You should have read on, but I can understand your hang-up on the "prince that shall come." It is often argued that the "prince that shall come" is the "antichrist," or rather, "the beast." Many believe that the "he" pronoun in verse 27 points back to the "prince that shall come" as its antecedent.

HOWEVER, the Hebrew doesn't read that way!!! The noun construct state phrase is "`am naagiyd" which is translated "people of-[the]-prince." And, similar to English, the portion translated "OF [the] prince" ("naagiyd") does NOT have subject strength for the sentence! In English, it is the object of the preposition "of," and in Hebrew it is the subordinate noun in the construct state! The subordinate noun cannot be the subject of the sentence! With these two sentences back to back, that means that the antecedent for the word "he" in verse 27 CANNOT be the "prince" of verse 26! It MUST go back farther to the next singular-person noun, which would be "Messiah" in verse 26!

Believe what you want, but if you cannot back it with the truth of how the language of Hebrew works, your belief is UNFOUNDED.

What I said is NOT a "monumental error"; it is just monumentally unfamiliar! The "monumental error" is that the "he" in verse 27 refers to the "prince that shall come" in verse 26! It's been claimed for many years by people who are big on theology and eschatology but have NO understanding of Hebrew!

By the way, I should have added that biggandyy is right to some degree about the timing in REVELATION (singular)! Remember: Yochanan was a Jew as well and therefore he probably spoke Hebrew (or Aramaic), even though the book was later translated into Greek. As such, he is an Easterner, an inhabitant of the Middle East, having lived in the Land of Isra'el originally. Therefore, his culture and his language would have given him a perspective of "importance taking priority over chronology" when he recounted his vision. Although a timeline is still possible to decipher, it would not be a chronological chain of events, as Westerners have come to expect,but the Western reader absolutely MUST take the Oriental viewpoint into consideration.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Retro, I see it this way. For the average printed work I would agree with you, however, I believe the bible is different. God foreknew that the majority of folks throughout history would be non-jews and as such I believe it is written in a manner that all peoples from all languages could easily understand without an advanced study in Hebrew and Greek. If we believe the bible is inspired "by God", than all the concern about coming from "eastern thought" is unnecessary and we should, for the most part, take it as meaning what it seems to mean, but that doesn't eliminate the necessity of a Strong's, ie as "translators" weren't always as accurate as they could have been and words don't always mean what we believe them to mean at first glance.

Secondly, I don't believe Christ accomplished what you seem to believe He did in vs.27, thus disqualifying Him for being a contender for "he".

 

[teleiosis]

The Messiah does not prevail by military might or strength any limited time covenant.

The pronoun inherent in the 3rd person singular conjugation of gabar does indeed refer back to the last person mentioned in Hebrew grammar.

However, the third woe ( the last time a woe is mentioned in Revelations ) is found in Rev. 12:12.

That is not the thrid Woe.

There is a change of scene and focus between chapters 11 and 12. Chapter 12 includes two twin parallel accounts.
Besides, v. 12 is followed in its linear narrative by v. 14 which is the second half of the one 'seven.'

The third Woe's desolations are not detailed in the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 exclusive of the Sidebar account of 11:1-13 because John is faithful and obedient and he does not write anything about the third Woe in the Seal/Scroll chronology - which finishes the one 'seven' at the conclusion of chapter 11.

The Bowl Judgments from the detailed parallel account of the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ in Revelation chapters 13-16 (inclusive) are last, and so detail the third Woe's desolations showing the depth of God's Wrath.

 

[dismas]

The "He" is indeed referring to the Messiah. But, it would help us to look at what covenant is being broken - the covenant with Death and Hades.

The upshot is this: The king of the North/ Babylon takes Jewish princes captive, and installs one of them as a puppet king over Jerusalem/ Israel. God is fine with this. The puppet king of Israel breaks the covenant with Babylon (the north kingdom) and makes a covenant with the King of the South/ Pharaoh (Muslim Brotherhood) to protect themselves from the scourge of the North by using the South's army as backup. God is not fine with this and "He" rains hail upon Israel and scourges them via his instrument the King of the North army.

I myself am just learning all this stuff, if anyone can fill us in more, that would be great.

Isaiah 28

11Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,
12to whom he said,
“This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;
and, “This is the place of repose”—
but they would not listen.
13So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there—
so that they will go and fall backward,
be injured and snared and captured.
14Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.
15You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death,
with the grave[sup]b[/sup] we have made an agreement.
When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
it cannot touch us,
for we have made a lie our refuge
and falsehood[sup]c[/sup] our hiding place.”
16So this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.
17I will make justice the measuring line
and righteousness the plumb line;
hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie,
and water will overflow your hiding place.

18Your covenant with death will be annulled;
your agreement with the grave will not stand.
When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
you will be beaten down by it.
19As often as it comes it will carry you away;
morning after morning, by day and by night,
it will sweep through.”
The understanding of this message
will bring sheer terror.
20The bed is too short to stretch out on,
the blanket too narrow to wrap around you.
21The Lord will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim,
he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon—
to do his work, his strange work,
and perform his task, his alien task.
22Now stop your mocking,
or your chains will become heavier;
the Lord, the Lord Almighty, has told me
of the destruction decreed against the whole land.

Here's some commentary

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And your covenant with death - (see the note at Isaiah 28:15).
Shall be disannulled - The word rendered 'shall be disannulled,' (וכפר vekupar from כפר kâphar), properly means "to cover, overlay;" then to pardon, forgive; then to make atonement, to expiate. It has the idea of blotting out, forgiving, and obliterating - because a writing in wax was obliterated or "covered" by passing the "stylus" over it. Hence, also, the idea of abolishing, or rendering nought, which is the idea here. "When the overflowing scourge" (see the note at Isaiah 28:15).

Then ye shall be trodden down by it - There is in this verse a great intermingling of metaphor, not less than three figures being employed to denote the calamity. There is first the scourge, an instrument of punishment; there is then the idea of inundating waters or floods; then there is also the idea of a warrior or an invading army that treads down an enemy. All the images are designed to denote essentially the same thing, that the judgments of God would come upon the land, and that nothing in which they had trusted would constitute a refuge.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,.... Or, "be besmeared" (x), or daubed over, as the ark was with pitch, Genesis 6:14 where the same word is used as here; so that it shall not be legible, as any writing that is blotted out by ink, or any other liquor, so that it cannot be read; in like manner this their covenant with death should be so obliterated, that the articles of it could not be made out, and so of no force; thus the Targum renders it,
"shall be made void;''
See Gill on Isaiah 28:15,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand; or "vision", or "provision" (y); which they had made by compact, with the greatest care, caution, and foresight, to secure themselves from destruction, would be found insufficient. The Targum is,
"and our peace, which was with the destroyer, shall not stand;''
See Gill on Isaiah 28:15,
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through: the land of Judea and the city of Jerusalem; See Gill on Isaiah 28:15,
then shall ye be trodden down by it: though they flattered themselves it should not come near them, yet it would; and they would not be able to stand before it, but would be thrown down, and trampled upon by it as the mire of the streets; see Luke 21:24.

This covenant is given more context in Ezekiel 17

17 The word of the Lord came to me: [sup]2 [/sup]“Son of man, set forth an allegory and tell it to the Israelites as a parable. [sup]3 [/sup]Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: A great eagle with powerful wings, long feathers and full plumage of varied colors came to Lebanon. Taking hold of the top of a cedar, [sup]4 [/sup]he broke off its topmost shoot and carried it away to a land of merchants, where he planted it in a city of traders.
[sup]5 [/sup]“‘He took one of the seedlings of the land and put it in fertile soil. He planted it like a willow by abundant water, [sup]6 [/sup]and it sprouted and became a low, spreading vine. Its branches turned toward him, but its roots remained under it. So it became a vine and produced branches and put out leafy boughs.
[sup]7 [/sup]“‘But there was another great eagle with powerful wings and full plumage. The vine now sent out its roots toward him from the plot where it was planted and stretched out its branches to him for water. [sup]8 [/sup]It had been planted in good soil by abundant water so that it would produce branches, bear fruit and become a splendid vine.’
[sup]9 [/sup]“Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Will it thrive? Will it not be uprooted and stripped of its fruit so that it withers? All its new growth will wither. It will not take a strong arm or many people to pull it up by the roots. [sup]10 [/sup]It has been planted, but will it thrive? Will it not wither completely when the east wind strikes it—wither away in the plot where it grew?’”
[sup]11 [/sup]Then the word of the Lord came to me: [sup]12 [/sup]“Say to this rebellious people, ‘Do you not know what these things mean?’ Say to them: ‘The king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and carried off her king and her nobles, bringing them back with him to Babylon. [sup]13 [/sup]Then he took a member of the royal family and made a treaty with him, putting him under oath. He also carried away the leading men of the land, [sup]14 [/sup]so that the kingdom would be brought low, unable to rise again, surviving only by keeping his treaty. [sup]15 [/sup]But the king rebelled against him by sending his envoys to Egypt to get horses and a large army. Will he succeed? Will he who does such things escape? Will he break the treaty and yet escape?
[sup]16 [/sup]“‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, he shall die in Babylon, in the land of the king who put him on the throne, whose oath he despised and whose treaty he broke. [sup]17 [/sup]Pharaoh with his mighty army and great horde will be of no help to him in war, when ramps are built and siege works erected to destroy many lives. [sup]18 [/sup]He despised the oath by breaking the covenant. Because he had given his hand in pledge and yet did all these things, he shall not escape.
[sup]19 [/sup]“‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: As surely as I live, I will repay him for despising my oath and breaking my covenant. [sup]20 [/sup]I will spread my net for him, and he will be caught in my snare. I will bring him to Babylon and execute judgment on him there because he was unfaithful to me. [sup]21 [/sup]All his choice troops will fall by the sword, and the survivors will be scattered to the winds. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken.
[sup]22 [/sup]“‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will take a shoot from the very top of a cedar and plant it; I will break off a tender sprig from its topmost shoots and plant it on a high and lofty mountain. [sup]23 [/sup]On the mountain heights of Israel I will plant it; it will produce branches and bear fruit and become a splendid cedar. Birds of every kind will nest in it; they will find shelter in the shade of its branches. [sup]24 [/sup]All the trees of the forest will know that I the Lord bring down the tall tree and make the low tree grow tall. I dry up the green tree and make the dry tree flourish.
“‘I the Lord have spoken, and I will do it.’”

Here's the historical template explained quite nicely:
http://www.growingchristians.org/dfgc/edevo/eagles.html

In 586BC, Nebuchadnezzar and the armies of the Babylonian empire conquered the kingdom of Judah and carried off many of the Jewish people as captives to Babylon. Jerusalem was burned and the beautiful Temple of the Lord, built by King Solomon, was completely destroyed. God allowed this terrible judgment to come upon His people Israel because of their sins of idolatry and rebellion. This judgment fulfilled God’s multiple warnings to Israel over many centuries through His prophets. In fact, in the ten years prior to the final fall of Jerusalem, God spoke to His people both from Jerusalem through the prophet Jeremiah, and from Babylon through the prophet Ezekiel.
Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Judah actually occurred in three phases and spanned about 20 years. In 605BC the Babylonian armies besieged Jerusalem and removed the Temple treasures and many of the promising young men of royal and noble birth. Taking royal hostages was typical strategy in ancient warfare, and limited any threat of a rebellious uprising by the tribute-paying, conquered nation. In this first phase of the Babylonian conquest, Daniel was one of the young men who were taken as captives to Babylon (see Daniel 1).
In 597BC Nebuchadnezzar’s army again invaded Judah because of a broken covenant, and more prisoners were taken away to Babylon. The prophet Ezekiel was included in this group. With the rest of the captives, Ezekiel was settled by the River Chebar in Babylon (see Ezekiel 1). So while Jeremiah continued to prophesy in Jerusalem, Ezekiel prophesied as a captive in Babylon. Both prophets continued to warn the people that the worst was yet to come for Jerusalem and the kingdom of Judah because of their blatant sin of forsaking the Lord their God. The final phase of the fall of Judah came in 587-586BC when the defenses of Jerusalem were breached after a siege that lasted more than a year. The Temple was destroyed, the city was devastated, and most of the Jews who were not killed were taken as captives to Babylon.
Doctrinal / Teaching Points:

In Ezekiel 15-17, the prophet Ezekiel gave three parables to the captives in Babylon to illustrate God’s dealings with the nation of Judah. In chapter 15 we find the parable of the fruitless vine: Israel had failed to bear fruit for the Lord. In chapter 16 we see the parable of the adulterous wife: Jerusalem, as the capital and leader of the nation, had committed spiritual adultery with the surrounding nations and their gods. Ezekiel 17 gives us the parable of two eagles and three kings. The two eagles (vs1-10) represent Babylon and Egypt, and the parable portrays the political dealings of the last two kings of Judah with these powerful empires. Verses 11-21 help us interpret the first part of the parable. In the remainder of the chapter a future kingdom, the kingdom of the Messiah, is predicted.
King Jehoiachin of Judah is the “top of the cedar tree” (v4) that was taken captive by the great eagle of Babylon. After removing Jehoiachin, King Nebuchadnezzar took Zedekiah from the royal line of Judah, set him up as a puppet king in Jerusalem, and made a covenant with him under oath (vs13-14). In the parable, Zedekiah is the royal seed of the land that is planted in fertile soil (v5). The vine (v6) represents the Jews of Judah who were not taken captive in the second phase of the Babylonian conquest, but remained in the land under the puppet king Zedekiah. At first “the vine” turned towards the eagle of Babylon and was subject to Nebuchadnezzar, in accordance with King Zedekiah’s covenant with Babylon. But in verse 7 the second great eagle appeared on the scene, and the vine turned towards him. Breaking his solemn covenant with Nebuchadnezzar, Zedekiah turned towards Egypt, hoping that an Egyptian alliance would help Judah gain her freedom from Babylonian tyranny.
Zedekiah’s treachery was a serious sin in God’s eyes. In this parable, God predicted that Pharaoh and his great Egyptian army would not intervene on Judah’s behalf, and Judah would be completely conquered by the Babylonians. Furthermore, Zedekiah would be taken as a prisoner to Babylon and would die in exile there.
When Ezekiel wrote this parable, part of the parable had already taken place. King Jehoiachin was already a captive in Babylon and Zedekiah was the puppet king in Jerusalem. However, the second part of the parable was yet to be fulfilled, so the second part is really a prophetic warning. Zedekiah’s political dealings with Egypt would fail, and Nebuchadnezzar would return in anger and deliver the final blow to Jerusalem and Judah. All of this took place (the historical account can be read in Jeremiah 52:3-14), and this emphasizes the great truth that God’s Word is both historically and prophetically accurate. The prophecy of Ezekiel’s parable of two eagles and three kings did not end with the fall of Jerusalem in 586BC. In the concluding verses of the chapter the parable is extended. God Himself takes a tender sprig from the highest branches of the cedar and plants it on a high and prominent mountain in Israel. This is a messianic prophecy—and a message of hope. The “shoot from the cedar tree” is the Lord Himself, from the royal line of David—the third King of Ezekiel 17. He is the “shoot out of the stump of Jesse” and the “branch that will bear fruit” of Isaiah 11:1. In the future, the kingdom of our Lord will be planted on this earth, with His capital in the mountain city of Jerusalem. His kingdom will thrive and prosper, bear fruit and become like a splendid, majestic cedar tree. The church is not the fulfillment of this prophecy. This prophecy is not being fulfilled at the present time, while our Lord is rejected by this world. The fulfillment will come when the Lord returns and literally reigns from Jerusalem. Then all the nations, represented by all the trees (v24), will acknowledge the Lord and submit to Him as the rightful King. Then all the inhabitants of the earth will find provision and peace under the branches of the mighty and majestic cedar tree.

 

[teleiosis]

Jesus did not prevail by might any limited time covenant with many - ostensibly with Israel because Jerusalem is one of two foci for the prophecy of God that Gabriel is pronouncing to Daniel.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Teleosis, Ok you lost me here. Your words: "The third Woe's desolations are not detailed in the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 exclusive of the Sidebar account of 11:1-13 because John is faithful and obedient and he does not write anything about the third Woe in the Seal/Scroll chronology - which finishes the one 'seven' at the conclusion of chapter 11."

The trumpets are not the seals and are not contained in them except for the 7th which ends the seals and starts the trumpet judgements. The only thing John doesn't record is the seven thunders which are separate events unrelated to either seals, trumps or vials. The first and second woe are both recorded after they occur. The third is not except in Rev. 12:12. To deny that is not taking scripture at face value. Will it mess with your timeline? Yes!, but you can't deny it and assume something else when no other woe is recorded in scripture.