This thread began on the subject of America inthe Bible. Somehow, as many such threads do, it got sidetracked. I would like to return to that question. Is America in the Bible, and if so, where?
I am in favour of the opinion that yes, America is inthe Bible, ands not only so, more prominently than many realize.
Because I am neither a pretersist, nor futurist, but of the historicist persuasion, my understanding of eschatology is based on the historicist perspective. For those of you who may not quite understand how historicism is different, allow me to briefly explain, then I will go into the OP. I am convinced that when prophets, especially one such as Daniel for example, were given a vision of future political and social upheaval, the events described in the vision, unless specifically revealed otherwise, began to unfold immediately after the vision was given. They continued to iunfold over a period of time until the vision was completed.
Nebuchadnezzar's vision Daniel's interpretation of the vision of the statue in Daniel 2 is a foundation vision upon which all the future visions were based. Each subsequent vision, those of Daniel 7, 8, 9, and 11, and even going into 12, were all explanatory or magnifications of former visions. The statue formed the foundaion, the beasts provided further details. The siginifant aspect of those visions which may differ from the more popular futurist perspective, is that I do not recognize any "gap" between the fourth beast and the coming of Christ. I do not believe that God 'forgot', or was ignorant of what took place in the intervening 2000 years. On the contrary, those 2000 years are depicted in quite graphic detail in chapter 11:23 on. But I digress. First, some background.
The various beasts depicted throughout the visions represent empires. Babylon, Media/persia, Greece, Rome. There is only a little argument over this within Christianity, it is what took place after Rome fell that major difference occur. In the statue, the iron of Rome is seen to continue all the way down to the second coming where it is destroyed by Jesus, the rock. Many believe that this means a revival of the Roman empire, as seen in the modern united Europe, or "Club of Rome", the original group of the EEC. Unfortunately what many fail to grasp is that the statue does not even hint at any break in the time-line between the legs of iron, and the feet of iron and clay. Remember, this vision is only a very broad outline of the future.
The next vision in Daniel 7 reveals far greater detail. But significantly, once again there is no hint of a gap or time lapse between the fourth beast, and what comes after. "What comes after?" you may ask. The hrons which grew from the head of the beast. These are clear depictions of powers that followed on after the fourth beast fell. They grew out of its head. They didn't arise seperately, nor did they come from elsewhere. They grew out of Rome. And history attests to this as being the case. The nations of modern Europe were founded upon thosew verey horns which grew from the 4th beast of Rome. Those horns were barbarian tribes that became established throughout the former empire from the 4th century on, and settled upon the ruins that Rome left behind when Constantine moved the capital east to Byzantium, (changing its name to Constantinople, now Istanbul).
Then we have the little horn that grew up among them. Bible scholars throught Christendom for centuries recognized this little horn as representative of the papacy, until recently. Today, preteerists claim it is Antiochus, futurists claim it is the future antichrist. Both preterists and futurists however ignore that contyinuing timeline. The horn grew out of Rome. Anyone who has just a modicum of historical appreciation will attest to the fact that the papacy not only inherited many of the pagan Roman traditions and beliefs, but only came to power (receiving its 'seat and authority' Revel. 13:2) on the back of pagan Rome's absence. (2 Thess. 2:6)
Therefore what God was pleased to reveal through His prophets, both Daniel and the apostle John, was a chronological timeline of the rise of powers and nations from the 6th century bc to our present day.
So, we come to America. Why should America even be mentioned in the Bible? All those other empires and beasts were all great enemies of God's people. They invaded Palestine, destroyed the temple, took Israelites into captivity, introduced social and religious tenets into the true religion thus compromising the true with falsehood, even to the point of crucifying the Son of God. Why would America rate a mention among all this?
First, let me ask two very important questions. How many empires are represented in Bible prophecy? And why aren't great empires such as China, Japan, and the Inca or Aztec empires depicted?
Revelation 12 gives us a very important clue that answers both questions.....
Revel. 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Later we are told....
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Thus it was Satan himself who was waiting before the woman to devour the Messiah. Yet he did not do this in person. To do such in person would be to reveal himself and thus divulge too much of his true nature and identity. Throughout history he has used agents which do his bidding. And the heads of this beast is representative of each major empire that rose up and became big time players in the war against God's people. And what do we see? We see in Bible prophecy a total of 7 beasts , all carnivorous, all persecuting powers, all viviously territorial, all enemies at one time or another of God's church, whether olt testament or new.
The first beast was Babylon. The second, Media/Persia, the thrid Greece, and the fourth Rome. These all from Daniel. Then we see horns growing from the fourth beast. the little horn grew into a beast in its own right, and is revealed to us in Revelation 13:1. This composite beast of Rev. 13:1 has many of the characteristics of the former powers. The lion face of Babylon, the bear claws of Meda/Persia, the leopard spots of Greece, the iron teeth of Rome. Most of us are well aware of the many and varied aspects of the Roman church that find there roots going back into pagan Babylon, roots which continued through all the subsequent powers, and find themselves a modern day concoction of pagan tradition and idolatry mixed with Christianity. This is the first beast of Revelation 13. Does this beast present itself as a persecution power? Yes. Is the RCC a persecuting power? Yes.
Which leaves us with two more beasts to find. The first of these two we will find in Revelation 11. It is described as a beast that ascends oiut of a bottomless pit, making war against God's witnesses, and killing them. A time is given for the duration of their death, a prophetic 3 and a half days. In real time this equates to 3 and 1/2 years. There is debate on this naturally, and also on who these witnesses are. It is my belief that these two witnesses are the old and new testaments of the Bible, they represent God's word. (Compare Rev. 11:4 with Zech. 4) So what power in history arose up and has become an implacable enemy of God's people, and specifically put to death the Bible for 3 and 1/2 years? Remember, that the fifth power, the little horn which grew out of the 4th beast, is not a literal localized political entity, but a global spiritual power. So also is the beast of Revel. 11:7. But like papal Rome, which grew from a localised political entity, so also does this power, atheism. Atheism grew from the localized political power of France. The French revolution was a war against Christianity. the major player in those days against whom France aimed its weapons of war, was the Roman church. The French government under the revolutionary rule of the people banned the Bible, and burnt every copy they coiuld find. The Biuble was outlawed in France, and anyone found with one was bruatlly murdered. Blood flowed throught the nation, both Catholic and Protestant, tens of thousands perished, and thousands more escaped to places such as Britain and America. Atheism was officially crowned as the religion of the empire.This lasted for precisely 3 and 1/2 years. At the end of this time, the church was granted permission to re-establish, God's word returned to once again its rightful place in society. Interestingly, it was at this time that Bible Societies began to be formed, and have been hugely responsible for the written word to be promulgated throught all the world. (Rev. 11:11,12) It was from these roots that communism evolved, itself an implacable enemy to God's people. Today, atheism, although not the wholesale persecuting power it once may have been, is still an enemy to God's people, and an enemy to truth. Thus the 6th head is identified.
Which leaves us with but one beast yet unidentified, which we find in Revel.13:11.
11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Like all the former beasts which represented spiritual powers, we can expect that this beast also has its beginnings in a political entity. Just previous to its rise, we read in Rev. 13:10 that that the frormer beast, the papacy, was to go into captivity. (See also further evidence in verse 3 that tells us that one of the heads is wounded to death, but is healed.) Thus the spiritual empire of the papacy is put to death, but returns to life. Did such a scenario takew place? Yes, absolutely so, and it was the atheistic power of France, through Napoleon's general Berthier, who in 1798 entered Rome, took the pope captive, nationalized all the papal states and disbanded the college of cardinals, who effectively put to death the Roman church. And leaders from all over the world thought that such an historic event spelt the death knell of Catholicism. But not so. Mussolini, in 1928, reinstated the papacy as a major player in both political and religious spheres by returning the Vatican to the pope and reinstating the Vatican as an independant nation state.. The headlines throughout the world declared the wound healed declared.
So what major nation was rising up at the time of the fall of the papacy, around 1798? There is only one answer. The United States of America. Unlike the former beasts which arose out of the sea, (Re 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters (seas) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.) the second beast rises from the land. A perfect description of the rise of the USA. If the sea represents a populous area, the land must be the opposite...a less populated area. And so America was. The horns like a lamb? On the former beasts the horns represented nations or kings that would rise through conquest...as natural horns are used on animals in the wild...but in this case the initial rise would be peaceful, and her government founded on different principles. In contradistinction to the previous beast which was founded on Catholic principles of a church/state union, this beast was based on Protestant priciples...a religion without a pope and a state without a king.
I do think that it will come as no surprise to any that there is a time coming soon when the US becomes an enemy to God's people. We can all see and recognize how different legislative enactments have limited personal freedoms, and increase greatly the role of the state in the lives of individuals, quite different I believe to the intents of the constitution and bill of rights. A total change in character to the point of speaking like the dragon and enforcing religious submission to papal (the first beast) doctrines, (the mark of the beast,) and by creating a 'nominal-Protestant'/state union,( an image to the first church/state beast), and enforcing worship in accordance with Satanic deceptiuve counterfeit religious practice, in the not too far distant future in not beyond the realms of possibility. this NT global spiritual power arising from the localized political entity of the US, is aposytate protestantoism.
Thus we have the seven heads of the various beasts each head representative of different stages of growth under the leadership and counsel of Satan, each head or empire the implacable enemy to God's people, each head or empire a persecuting power, each chronologically growing yet all inheriting various characteristics of the former beasts, culminating in the final global union of church and state depicted in
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Here we have the church riding upon the back of the state, supported by the state power through its armies and legislations, but guiding the state through coercion and bribery. (Revel. 13:14-18)
Babylon
Media/Persia
Greece
Rome
Roman Catholicism
Atheism
Apostate Protestantism.
Note
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
John is looking at this stage from the perspective of the time after the fall of the papacy, and the rise of atheism and American protestantism.
Five are fallen...Babylon, Media/Persia, Greece, Rome and the papacy....
one is....atheism...
one is yet to come...apostate protestantism which ....will continue a short space...
And the beast that was, and is not (the papacy) even he is the eighth (reborn papacy) is of the seven and goeth into perdition.
Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
In future, the near future, the world will be divided into 10 distinct precincts,(this is verifiable with a little research) the NWO governed by a despotic dictatorial potentate some call the antichrist. My contention is the antichrist has been here all along, having his beginnings at the time of John, (when the papal apostacy began) and will finallyrule as the woman riding the beast. It is that union that is the last in a long historic run of Satan's decepetive masterpieces in his war against God's people.
Re 17:14 ¶ These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
This is the true armageddon. The final ultimate war mounted against all of God's true disciples on a global scale.