Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism

[farouk]

they are totally different.! The judgment seat of Christ is when He returns and decides who enters the kingdom on earth or not! The lost are cast into the place of torments awaiting the lake of fire. Teh righteous OT dead are physically raised and given access. But the lost are not raised here. This is the first resurrection described in REv. 20.

The great white throne is the final judgment. Teh dead are raised here to be cast into the lake of fire! All the righteous have been reaised or are alive!

I've understood the judgment seat of Christ to be about the assessment of Christian service (2 Corinthians 5.10).

 

[ScottA]

You just can't have sin in the "Holy Place" of the Temple of the Body of Jesus. I much rather place it in the wordly stone temple than inside my LORD and Saviour. All Scripture testifies of the Holiness of Christ. You just can't do it.

But you cannot place it in the stone temple even if you want to-- It only points to Him who is holy.

You have done nothing but fool yourself into thinking the one takes place of the Other. It does not. You are kidding yourself.

The Spirit of Truth and Christ are distinct Divine Persons, The Father will send the Spirit in Jesus Name, not send Jesus in Jesus Name:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This is not the second coming of Christ. It is prophecy of Pentecost.

You do not understand.

Jesus came the first time (1) and then went to be with the Father, but has since returned and continues to return to those who hear Him nocking and open the door allowing Him to come in them (2)--He is in them now. Do the math...He has appeared "a second time" already and continues to do so "each in his own order." If you deny this, you deny Him and yourself.

I am not going to keep repeating myself.

 

[Daniel L.]

you cannot place it in the stone temple

Why not?

He has appeared "a second time" already

The Spirit of Truth or the new Comforter is not the second coming of the Jesus who has a body of flesh and bone. The Spirit is only visible to the saints, the body of Jesus is visible to every eye, so when the Spirit of Truth came to the saints, it was not the second coming of the Jesus of flesh and bone to every eye, don't confuse the two.

 

[ScottA]

Why not?

Because a shadow of things to come, in and of itself is nothing, but only points to what is to come.

This is why Jesus clarified, saying, "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:32 Such offences do not qualify to cause the desolation prophesied by Daniel--not even against the Son of Man. This is what I have been saying, which you have not accounted for or acknowledged.

The Spirit of Truth or the new Comforter is not the second coming of the Jesus who has a body of flesh and bone. The Spirit is only visible to the saints, the body of Jesus is visible to every eye, so when the Spirit of Truth came to the saints, it was not the second coming of the Jesus of flesh and bone to every eye, don't confuse the two.

This is just you talking out of your lack of understanding and making things up. The scriptures, say "He" "Christ." Hebrews 9:28

How long will you keep misquoting and deceiving yourself?

​

 

[farouk]

Because a shadow of things to come, in and of itself is nothing, but only points to what is to come.

This is why Jesus clarified, saying, "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:32 Such offences do not qualify to cause the desolation prophesied by Daniel--not even against the Son of Man. This is what I have been saying, which you have not accounted for or acknowledged.

This is just you talking out of your lack of understanding and making things up. The scriptures, say "He" "Christ." Hebrews 9:28

How long will you keep misquoting and deceiving yourself?

​

I'm finding the thread hard to follow, to be honest....

Sticking with Scripture is always good; I'm sure you agree.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've understood the judgment seat of Christ to be about the assessment of Christian service (2 Corinthians 5.10).

Well depends which seat you are referring to. The 2nd Corinthians passage is the Bema seat Judgment of Christ which is just for believers to determine the quality of work done in His name. Gold silver precious stones or wood hay and stubble.

But the Matt. 25:31 throne is a judgment of the inhabitants that survived Armageddon and the tribulation. They are separated as sheep and goats. sheep enter the kingdom on earth and th egoats are cast into the lake of fire.

but I agree, most references to teh judgment seat of christ is the Bema. But as this is a thread on eschatological hermeneutics, I went immediately to the Matt. 25 judgment.

 

[Daniel L.]

shadow of things to come

You have no Scripture to say the temple is "shadows of things to come", this is just your own understanding, and I can't take it for truth on it's own.

Such offences do not qualify to cause the desolation prophesied by Daniel

Why not? The man who blasphemed surely qualified as offence to have no forgiveness. Why can't the abomination of desolation "qualify" the offenses?

 

[Daniel L.]

This is just you talking out of your lack of understanding and making things up.

-The Comforter is distinct from Jesus, they are two Divide Persons united in One:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"Christ." Hebrews 9:28

In the First coming of Christ, He "bears" the sins of many, but the second coming He will not bear any sin:

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The answer is on the same verse, the second coming of Christ He will come to judge, and every eye shall see Him, no one will hide from His judgement, they tried tho:

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

[ScottA]

You have no Scripture to say the temple is "shadows of things to come", this is just your own understanding, and I can't take it for truth on it's own.

There you go again (misquoting). I gave you the scriptures already:

But He was speaking of the temple of His body. John 2:21

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5​

Why not? The man who blasphemed surely qualified as offence to have no forgiveness. Why can't the abomination of desolation "qualify" the offenses?

I gave you that answer already too: Because it is only a foreshadow.

You are speaking from your own understanding...only considering that those physical stones if dropped on your head would kill you, and that is correct-- But that is not the Life we are speaking of. That life is still given once to die. But we are talking about everlasting life. You are out of context. The only Temple that is in context, is Christ's body.

You are not rightly dividing the word of true, as advised.

 

[ScottA]

-The Comforter is distinct from Jesus, they are two Divide Persons united in One:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



In the First coming of Christ, He "bears" the sins of many, but the second coming He will not bear any sin:

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The answer is on the same verse, the second coming of Christ He will come to judge, and every eye shall see Him, no one will hide from His judgement, they tried tho:

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

You are misquoting again...

You left out my explanation from the scriptures.

This is the last time I am going to tell you to stop.

 

[quietthinker]

Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism
Sounds like a recipe for bolognas

 

[Jay Ross]

Sounds like a recipe for bolognas

Is that like a sausage with no meat in it?

 

[quietthinker]

Is that like a sausage with no meat in it?

dead things are included.

 

[GEN2REV]

You do not understand.

Jesus came the first time (1) and then went to be with the Father, but has since returned and continues to return to those who hear Him nocking and open the door allowing Him to come in them (2)--He is in them now. Do the math...He has appeared "a second time" already and continues to do so "each in his own order." If you deny this, you deny Him and yourself.

No, my friend. You couldn't be more wrong.

How can you all possibly make a claim like this and completely overlook, and ignore, plain scripture about Christ's return?

"...while they beheld, He (Jesus) was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. ... two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
Acts 1:11

Jesus has not returned yet. And 'every eye' has not yet seen Him.
Revelation 1:7

He left in dramatic fashion 'with the clouds', and He will come in even more dramatic fashion 'with the clouds' so that all the liars cannot spin their yarns about His premature return.

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Matthew 24:29-31

Every eye shall see Him.

 

[ScottA]

No, my friend. You couldn't be more wrong.

How can you all possibly make a claim like this and completely overlook, and ignore, plain scripture about Christ's return?

"...while they beheld, He (Jesus) was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. ... two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
Acts 1:11

Jesus has not returned yet. And 'every eye' has not yet seen Him.
Revelation 1:7

He left in dramatic fashion 'with the clouds', and He will come in even more dramatic fashion 'with the clouds' so that all the liars cannot spin their yarns about His premature return.

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Matthew 24:29-31

Every eye shall see Him.

The "like manner" is not the like manner of the flesh, but the like manner of the Spirit of God in which was their witness of Him going to the Father. It is the manner of the Father whom is spirit in which He comes. That is also how every eye shall see, as all are raised up, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contemp. This is the fulfillment and reconciling of all scripture, for the kingdom of God does not come by observation, just as it is written.

 

[GEN2REV]

@Ronald Nolette

I lean to KJV translation, but occasionally I crack open another version and check out certain concepts, etc.

Many NIV versions don't even include intros to books, but I just happen to have one that has a very interesting intro to 1 Samuel.

It claims that 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings were once one long book that was called the "Book of Reigns."

Here is the conclusion of the intro. Look closely.

"The Book of Reigns is therefore a tragic closing of the whole covenant history that began in Genesis. Just as the first humans were exiled from God's garden, now Israel is sent out of the "new Eden" God intended in the promised land. Land and temple have been lost in the darkness of judgment, and only a flickering light remains. The deeper purpose of God for Israel -- seems to have been frustrated. But hope remains alive in God's promise to bring a descendant of David back to the throne."

(Note: you can't lose something you didn't already have.)

Pretty interesting and very significant.

(I know, you'll claim this says nothing and doesn't exist. -That's actually the only way you can continue to hold to your false doctrine of Millennialism; you must outright ignore scripture and all comments/translations of it that 100% deny a Millennial reign of Christ upon the earth.)

All good. God bless.

 

[GEN2REV]

The "like manner" is not the like manner of the flesh, but the like manner of the Spirit of God in which was their witness of Him going to the Father. It is the manner of the Father whom is spirit in which He comes. That is also how every eye shall see, as all are raised up, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contemp. This is the fulfillment and reconciling of all scripture, for the kingdom of God does not come by observation, just as it is written.

Nonsense.

Jesus, Himself, could stand bodily before you telling you you're wrong and, without missing a beat, you'd go right into your explaining how He'd misunderstood scripture because of this nonsense detail and that misinterpretation, etc.

You simply cannot see Truth when it (He) is right in front of you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette

I lean to KJV translation, but occasionally I crack open another version and check out certain concepts, etc.

Many NIV versions don't even include intros to books, but I just happen to have one that has a very interesting intro to 1 Samuel.

It claims that 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings were once one long book that was called the "Book of Reigns."

Here is the conclusion of the intro. Look closely.

"The Book of Reigns is therefore a tragic closing of the whole covenant history that began in Genesis. Just as the first humans were exiled from God's garden, now Israel is sent out of the "new Eden" God intended in the promised land. Land and temple have been lost in the darkness of judgment, and only a flickering light remains. The deeper purpose of God for Israel -- seems to have been frustrated. But hope remains alive in God's promise to bring a descendant of David back to the throne."

(Note: you can't lose something you didn't already have.)

Pretty interesting and very significant.

(I know, you'll claim this says nothing and doesn't exist. -That's actually the only way you can continue to hold to your false doctrine of Millennialism; you must outright ignore scripture and all comments/translations of it that 100% deny a Millennial reign of Christ upon the earth.)

All good. God bless.

Wow all that verbage just to hurl you rstraw man ad-hominem.

Yes Israel lost their land and temp[le. But as the maps I posted showed historically and empirically that Israel has yet to hold all the land promised to them by God to Abraham. I srael never controlled the parts of modern Iraq to the Euphrates, nor have they controlled Egypt to the Nile!

And if you think Gods plans can be frustrated- you serve a really weak God. But the God of the bible never gets frustrated in His plans. YOur allegorical mindset towards SCripture has clouded your ability to see literal things.

 

[ScottA]

Nonsense.

Jesus, Himself, could stand bodily before you telling you you're wrong and, without missing a beat, you'd go right into your explaining how He'd misunderstood scripture because of this nonsense detail and that misinterpretation, etc.

You simply cannot see Truth when it (He) is right in front of you.

You have not reconciled all. Emotional...I understand.

You too shall see.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes Israel lost their land and temple. But as the maps I posted showed historically and empirically that Israel has yet to hold all the land promised to them by God to Abraham. Israel never controlled the parts of modern Iraq to the Euphrates, nor have they controlled Egypt to the Nile!

All the maps that you posted showed was the present day borders of Israel. That proves absolutely nothing.

Hey, I got a proposition for ya. If I could produce multiple verses from scripture that state plainly that Israel already obtained, from God, all the land that was ever promised to them, would you then let go of your pet fantasy that God still owes them land?

I know the answer, but you really need to admit it in front of everybody.

And if you think Gods plans can be frustrated- you serve a really weak God. But the God of the bible never gets frustrated in His plans. YOur allegorical mindset towards SCripture has clouded your ability to see literal things.

I've got your allegory ready as soon as you're ready to face the Truth of scripture on the matter.

Do some soul-searching and prepare yourself to face the hard Truth that you've so long refused to accept and let me know when you're ready for this bombshell.