An Omniscient God Negates Free Will
- Thread starter Lapidem
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Why is it that millions of people who believe in a God who they never see, can accept that he/she can communicate with them via an emotional link (From heaven to earth) They feel God's heart. But when I say that I can feel my daughter exactly that same way, I'm classified as mentally ill. (Why aren't you all classified the same way?)
I believe you, I once got stoned off my butt and amazed my best friend by reading his thoughts. I haven't been able to do that again since.
And - on this note, a person's own soul energy cannot be created or destroyed. When they can no longer hold onto their own body, it returns to where it came from, but if it is in an imperfect state, it returns again to the physical to seek out new experiences and answers.
The difference between free-will and spiritual-will, is that free-will requires strength, whereas spiritual-will requires exercise.
Now exercise creates strength, but it is not necessarily acknowledged for having created strength; whereas strength creates work, which exercise cannot go without - so there is a bond between free-will and spiritual-will that they are benefitted by each other.
When someone asks "do I have free-will?" the covalent question is "does my free-will create work?"; whereas when someone asks "do I have spiritual-will?" the covalent question is "how much strength does my spiritual-will make shareable?"
As long as you treat free-will the same as spiritual-will, you will have wind and confusion (in relation to the OP, God does negate free-will, but only when the subject is willing to exchange it for spiritual-will).
Now exercise creates strength, but it is not necessarily acknowledged for having created strength; whereas strength creates work, which exercise cannot go without - so there is a bond between free-will and spiritual-will that they are benefitted by each other.
When someone asks "do I have free-will?" the covalent question is "does my free-will create work?"; whereas when someone asks "do I have spiritual-will?" the covalent question is "how much strength does my spiritual-will make shareable?"
As long as you treat free-will the same as spiritual-will, you will have wind and confusion (in relation to the OP, God does negate free-will, but only when the subject is willing to exchange it for spiritual-will).
Nothing in this universe is random. Everything happens because of the influences of external forces. Things only appear random because we don't have the mental capacity to process the trillions of little influences that affect everything. The entire course of the universe is therefore predictable but only if you had an infinitely huge computer to process all the data. This in turn means you and I are part of that whole process and we only think we have choices but the reality is we don't, everything happens via cause and effect. Nature doesn't decay either, it's just in a constant state of flux as it's part of the universe which is doing the same. Nature churns out life forms, grows things but it is an absolute pre-requisite that Nature MUST first reduce something to its prima material before it can then recycle it and make it into something else. This is a key process of Alchemy and it's this same key process that Jesus refers to in his parable about the grain of wheat falling to the ground and dying. Everything is caught in this constant cycle of growth and subsequent disintegration. The only way to defer that process is to get hold a large source of "life energy" which will allow your current body to constantly heal itself and keep you young and fit and in peak form. i.e. The Elixir of Life. Even then your body itself is still undergoing this constant transformation. With or without the Elixir your body regenerates every cell in your body about every 5-10 years. Thus old cells will be broken down into their prima material and recycled. If you have the Elixir the regeneration process happens very very quickly so you don't age and decompose like other humans. All of this is iterated in the Bible if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
Again the Bible is not literal. Adam and Eve are allegorical representations of the male and female principles of the universe. So too are the Sun and the Moon, just alternative terms for these male and female principles. They are mentioned in Genesis which in no small part is telling us how to create the Elixir Of Life, using allegorical and cryptic terminology. If you read the passages literally you go astray and are blind to the real message.
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No this is not true. Jesus kept the secret for himself and his close disciples as stated in the Bible
Matthew 13:10
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
The Hoi Polloi were not deemed worthy of this secret knowledge thus Jesus spoke in parables that would only be understood by those with ears to hear, i.e. those trained and initiated into the mysteries. It has always been this way. Lots of different people have found or created the Elixir/Stone over the centuries and every one has jealously and selfishly guarded and kept the secret for themselves. They have enjoyed perfect health, perpetual youth, the healing of all their ailments and illnesses whilst the rest of the world suffers horribly. Jesus was no exception for had he shared this secret every man and woman would have been immortal in their current form and the need for money and greed and dependence on food and water would all have disappeared.
More allegorical messages which you are interpreting as literal. It's easy to give up all you have when you have the one thing that perpetually enables you to live in perfect health and transmute things. Much harder of course to give up that one thing, to give up the Elixir. Jesus didn't do that. He held onto it, shared the secret with his disciples only and left everyone else to swing in the wind saving those fortunate handful that he passed by and healed using his Elixir.
As above so below, yes indeed. However without the amounts of life energy you need it's not possible to become the kind of powerful person that can control universal energy. Humans are just basic energy converters like all other life forms. However if we had the Elixir with its massive quantities of pure life energy then we would transform as we ought to. Our minds would operate differently, on another level, essentially enlightenment and from that lots of things become possible. Unfortunately those who have this wonderful substance and/or the knowledge of how to create it, guard it jealously as Jesus did and all those before him (Noah etc). So the rest of us are left to rot and suffer and be recycled. All of this is well recorded in the Bible and in the Quran and in the Gita and in Taoism and Rosicrucianism. Religious nonsense serves only to obfuscate and pacify gullible people and steer them away from the search to these fundamental truths. Those that have the secret greatly fear everyone else finding it. If they did the entire world would change drastically. Societal collapse as we know it. There would be no banks. No financial systems and thus no constant exploitation of the masses keeping them slaves. There would be no medical industry, no pharmaceuticals to perpetually make us sick and offer us their snake oil medicines. Everything would change. We would all become free. This is something the privileged few fear happening. They enjoy their ultra power gained from this Elixir and they want to keep that power. This can only change when the people are given the Elixir en-masse along with the knowledge of how to keep creating it (which ironically isn't that difficult).
You don't need to believe anything. It is something that needs to be proven or disproved first (Which I do not accomplish by other people believing it to be true or not true first) Is the earth flat because I believe it's flat? But it wasn't more flat when most people believed it was flat? No or yes? My argument is simple. Without empirical evidence to support a truth claim, any truth claim that only require me to believe must be all equal in nature (Those types of claims should be treated with healthy scepticism)
Dropship
Well-Known Member
It's debatable..
For example God tested Abraham by ordering him to kill his son-
"God said, “Take your son, your only son..Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”...
He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar...Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!...Do not lay a hand on the boy...
Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” (Genesis 22: 2-12)
See, the words "Now I know that you fear God" imply that God didn't know what Abraham would do before the test, in which case God is not omniscient and all-knowing, but gives us free will.
Comments?
You already posted this silliness in page 7 of this thread (post #122) Repeating it doesn't make it any more credible. As had to be pointed out to you the words came from the angel not directly from God. There can be no free will if you are forced or cajoled into making a decision.
I'm not talking about the Bible exactly, but only using Eve as an illustration, I am talking more along the lines of idealism. That the symbol of the perfect woman existed first, then the world took shape to reflect symbols such as these.
Without using the Bible, a different example might be tarot cards.
The fool: he is an innocent, holding a flower in his hands, looking up at the sky, he sees only the beauty in this world and not the danger, not heeding that he is about to walk off a cliff.
The tower: it is a vast, imposing structure, seemingly invincible, it dominates all it surveys, but it only appears terrible, because the walls are weak, and when the storm comes, it shatters to pieces
The hanged man: gaining wisdom through self-sacrifice, his head glows with a halo, his expression is serene
Just like simple forms of energies obey laws, heat flows into cold, mass flows into vacuum, etc. The more complex forms of energy, IE consciousness, obeys certain laws as well. There are patterns that emerge from it. As you said yourself, energy follows the path of least resistance, there is always a logic to it. So it is with these patterns within consciousness, the innocent will be persecuted, the arrogant will be brought down, and those who sacrifice the world will gain something greater. Consciousness itself follows a path of least resistance. You can look at it as learning lessons. The universe wants to learn lessons, because that is a form of energy exchange.
And, anyways, more directly to the point: if you believe that energy creates consciousness, then you must therefore also believe that energy is itself consciousness. There is an underlying energy field which even the most basic packets of energy are formed from. This energy field encompasses all there is. Therefore, it is, by necessity, consciousness itself.
The secret is hidden in plain sight:
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Everything is one. Man controls his own reality. What is the difference between a sorceror and a holy man? A sorceror thinks he can control God, thinks he IS God. A holy man acts in humility according to the will of God. God is that underlying energy field of consciousness that everything else is created from.
You describe a sorceror, sorcerors control the world through controlling the minds of men. They see other men as animals, beasts of burden who should serve the enlightened, and try to draw power from manipulating their minds. A holy man seeks that all should be enlightened.
Jesus and the prophets were not sorcerors, they have said time and time again what the truth was, but nobody wanted to listen.
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
The problem with pure empiricism is that you are measuring only that which is observable, and that what is observable is limited. That is why it is often better to use rationality to deduce answers.
For example, empirically, I can only prove that I exist, I cannot prove that you and other people are not just a construct of my mind, because I cannot directly observe your experiences.
However, rationally, I can prove that I am not the only thing that exists, because I know that wisdom and benevolence and power exist which are beyond myself. So seeing that I am lesser to something else, I cannot be all that exists.
What would make dropshop's post(s) more credible. Aren't all their arguments fought in the same vein of believing? Why is there any argument if each believer knows the truth? It's that everybody believes they possess the truth (But nobody else does) That's what it's all about? I feel sick to my stomach when I see people talk to each other per-belief
Sorry @Lapidem
I am changing some words here (Done)
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Reading your reply is causing me to feel suicidal (That all, I am not saying anything else)
Do you use a screwdriver to open a sealed crate or a crowbar to unscrew screws? Crude topics require crude tools. Fine topics require fine tools. Physics requires observation, metaphysics requires reason.
Job 35
5 Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds which are higher than thou.
6 If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
7 If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
God exists whether you believe or not
Wonder why society is completely falling apart? People in larger numbers now are disbanding all those beliefs that previously held society together. Doesn't mean that our parents (parents parents ect) beliefs where better. We are living in consequence of their beliefs, and the next generation will live with the consequences of ours.
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