Out of interest, what boundaries and constraints would be enough for you to deem us not to have free will?Agreed.
I find some humor in the belief that God did not afford humanity free-will.
Or, when is free will not free will?
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Out of interest, what boundaries and constraints would be enough for you to deem us not to have free will?Agreed.
I find some humor in the belief that God did not afford humanity free-will.
Beliefs, Truths, Facts......Out of interest, what boundaries and constraints would be enough for you to deem us not to have free will?
Or, when is free will not free will?
Define; pair of dice? -Do you understand and accept that a pair of dice that are rolled on a table, are not random?
Nope. You’re the one not getting it.You're just not getting it. There's a very marked difference between "someone" knowing what a choice will be and an Omniscient God knowing what a choice will be and it's the latter that is being discussed in this thread. If God is omniscient then he knows that choice A will b made. If he knows that, then 100% absolutely that WILL be the choice. Options B and C are 100% not possible. This really isn't difficult to understand and blindly refusing to accept such a simple premise is an act of denial I'm afraid.
Once again, it doesn’t clean up your logical fallacy or begin to make it look any less fallacious to try to make a comparison between a die, which cannot do anything but sit there unmoving, and a person, who can cause a die to move. The die would have to be able to move the person to make a comparison mean anything.Do you understand and accept that a pair of dice that are rolled on a table, are not random?
It's a privilege to embrace the life God offers us. The opportunity to choose to love one another is not so bad is it. Your choice.With or without free will it is a meaningless relationship because we are a construct, created by God, owned by God, with a future determined by God.
Beliefs, Truths, Facts......
Free-will is the reality that we live in. Our constraints are the boundaries of the physical world, beyond that is the spiritual aspect of our faith. Which makes us different than cattle, which have free-will to graze but within the boundaries of the fence.
We choose to have faith, or faith means nothing.
We choose to love God, or that love means nothing.
We choose to worship God, or that worship means nothing.
We choose to live our lives as Christians, or that means nothing.
We choose to help those in need, or that means nothing.
We choose to please God, or it means nothing.
Without free-will nothing has purpose.
I am thinking my answer went over your head. I answered it in the physical and the spiritual.This is all very lovely but you didn't answer my question unfortunately. So I will ask it again:
What boundaries and constraints would be enough for you to deem us (humans) not to have free will?
Or, when is free will not free will?
Nope. You’re the one not getting it.
If someone chooses between a few different options or choices, they have made a choice.
Even if someone knew what option they would choose, they still were given the choice and still made a choice.
Once again, it doesn’t clean up your logical fallacy or begin to make it look any less fallacious to try to make a comparison between a die, which cannot do anything but sit there unmoving, and a person, who can cause a die to move. The die would have to be able to move the person to make a comparison mean anything.
Aha ! Cause and Effect?Once choice was made - then a direct consequence came next.
It's a privilege to embrace the life God offers us. The opportunity to choose to love one another is not so bad is it. Your choice.
Back to the equivalent of Pharma creating a deadly virus, spreading it around the globe and then stretching out a "loving " arm with a cure or vaccine.@Lapidem, in case you did not know Jesus Christ has taken care of hell, and it has been done away with.
I am thinking my answer went over your head. I answered it in the physical and the spiritual.
So odds are that you have an answer in mind.
Free-will or freedom?
So if you have a context in mind....lets cut to the chase....
Created by who exactly?It was a place created for people who died before the price of sin was paid for.
MatthewG said:People in this world are obviously going to die, and people get murdered, die from sicknesses, and what not. It is part of life.
That would depend on who was in control.....but who ever it would reflect their character.I'm specifically asking you what things would we necessarily see in life if free will did not exist?
If you do not have free-will, you have no choice. And what it would "look like"....a reflection of the person that was in control.How would our "choices" be framed if we did not have free-will? What would they look like?
Cattle very clearly are NOT free in any sense of the term. They ARE fenced in, and they are made to do the bidding of humans (who are effectively their God). Dairy cows are kept in a state of pregnancy so they will continually produce milk, are fed anti-biotics repeatedly and will only ever see the same one or two fields their entire life.
You'd have to be pretty sick to refer to this as "free-will".
It's not remotely free-will. It's imprisonment. Internment. Slavery. Exploitation.
Humans similarly are in this position if you believe the religious doctrine.
We are not free in any sense. We are cattle, and we are given very few real choices. Those choices we are given, are effectively given with a gun to the head.
You mention free-will vs freedom.