And the truth shall set you free...

[Job]

What about Jesus? Is he without sin?

1 John 3
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

What about all who are born of God?

Only one individual was born of God. Jesus. All other references to being born of God is making reference to being born again.

No one is without sin.
.

 

[skyangel]

1 John 3
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.


Only one individual was born of God. Jesus. All other references to being born of God is making reference to being born again.

No one is without sin.
.

That's not true since you just indicated that Jesus was without sin.
"All have sinned" is true and that includes Jesus who sinned against the Pharisees and offended them but that sin of Jesus was not counted against him as sin. Why?
Think about this.
Since the Pharisees saw Jesus breaking the religious laws and perceived him as a sinner, why did that NOT make him a sinner too?

The flesh always sins against the spirit and the spirit always sins against the flesh because they are at enmity with each other so why are the sins of the Spirit against the flesh not counted as sin?

All have sin in them including Jesus but if they are walking in the Spirit and sinning against their flesh instead of walking in the flesh and sinning against the Spirit, are they still sinners or are they saints who cannot sin even if sinful flesh accuses them of being sinners?

 

[Job]

That's not true...

But it is. The reason you don't see that is because you don't believe in God.

 

[skyangel]

But it is. The reason you don't see that is because you don't believe in God.

But I do believe in God.
My concept and understanding of God is just not as an invisible man in the sky who has some supernatural powers.
I do not worship an individual character in the form of a man. I see that kind of worship as idolatry.
My concept of God is far more tangible and realistic than that.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make with Jesus and the Pharisees is that it is obviously possible for a righteous man to be perceived as a sinner when he sins against people whose father is the devil and they still claim to be worshippers of God anyway.
Truth sins against lies and liars perceive that Truth to be a lie and the messenger of the Truth to be a liar. That is what we learn from the story of Jesus and the hypocrites.
Also from the story we can learn that what appears to be a sin or what appears to be something unrighteous to some people on all outward appearances may not be a sin or something unrighteous at all.
That is why it is very foolish to judge according to outward appearances.
Truth does set people free from all kinds of things but only if they believe and accept the Truth. It sets them free from nothing as long as they see it as a lie and reject it due to their misperception of it.

 

[Job]

But I do believe in God.

You believe in A god. Just not the One from the bible.

 

[skyangel]

You believe in A god. Just not the One from the bible.

It all depends on how you perceive the God of the bible.
The God I believe in is always on Earth in the flesh Yesterday Today and Tomorrow for all eternity.
What about the one you believe in? Where is he and have you ever seen him anywhere in the flesh?

 

[Job]

The God I believe in is always on Earth in the flesh Yesterday Today and Tomorrow for all eternity.

I'm glad you found something you can pin your hopes to. If you want to learn about the God that holds my belief, you can find Him in the bible.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

As for Paul being the target of Revelations, ask yourself this question: why is John writing to Paul's followers?

Where does it say in Revelation that John was addressing those believers in those churches as Paul's followers?

We know Paul went to Asia and that all of Asia forsook Paul.

We can read why.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

The Holy Ghost had forbidden Paul & another to preach the word in Asia, Mysia, and even Bithynia because the people there were not seeking the Lord then; but someone in Macedonia was.

We can see how the churches at Asia was faring later on here... below.

Acts 19:26Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:

So obviously, there were others claiming to be apostles that were endorsing idolatry.

What are the chances that John writing Revelations has nothing to do with them forsaking Paul?

You say that but go on to say otherwise.

I think a blind person can see that John writes to the churches of Asia because they forsook Paul, but why are they not reprimanded if what they did was wrong?

No. You are assuming a lot to accuse people not agreeing with you as blind. John was writing what Jesus told him to write.

Why does John commend the first church, in the very first thing mentioned, regarding them trying ones claiming to be Apostles? So we know all Asia forsook Paul and John doesn't reprimand them for forsaking Paul and that John, in the very first thing mentioned to the first church, praised them for trying and rejecting someone masquerading as an Apostle. If you look at the Greek you will see Revelations 2:2 is not plural, in other words: John did not say "them", "they" or "Apostles" plural.

You are assuming the one of the false apostles was Paul. As big a name as Saul that became Paul has become in the churches, John would mark him by name if he really was one of the false apostles, and explain how and why, because the physician Luke was endorsing Paul throughout the Book of Acts which would require John to do so, but he did not and so you need to pull back your anti-Paul campaign.

 

[skyangel]

I'm glad you found something you can pin your hopes to. If you want to learn about the God that holds my belief, you can find Him in the bible.

You did not answer my question "Have you ever seen him anywhere in the flesh?

 

[Job]

"Have you ever seen him anywhere in the flesh?

No.

 

[mjrhealth]

You did not answer my question "Have you ever seen him anywhere in the flesh?

Thomas did, you know teh one that Jesus told to put His fingers in His side to see teh whole where HE was peirced, and His hands where the nails where inserted.

 

[Job]

Thomas did, you know teh one that Jesus told to put His fingers in His side to see teh whole where HE was peirced, and His hands where the nails where inserted.

Countless thousands saw Him in the flesh.

 

[mjrhealth]

Countless thousands saw Him in the flesh.

for 35 years and after His resurection.

 

[Job]

for 35 years and after His resurection.

John 21
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

[skyangel]

No.

Well I am telling you that Christ is on Earth in the flesh at all times. Yesterday Today and forever.
Those who are "of the world" will never see him again even though they are staring him the face every single day of their lives.
But true disciples will and do see him the flesh at all times and are not waiting for some invisible Christ to return to Earth one day in future.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

When do the pure in heart see God? They see God in the flesh on Earth as soon as their heart is pure and their eyes are opened to see. They do not need to wait till after their physical bodies die for it to happen or wait for some invisible person to make an appearance in literal clouds.
I know from experience because once I was blind but NOW I see Christ in the flesh on Earth every single day.

 

[Job]

Well I am telling you that Christ is on Earth in the flesh at all times.

Matthew 24
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well I am telling you that Christ is on Earth in the flesh at all times. Yesterday Today and forever.
Those who are "of the world" will never see him again even though they are staring him the face every single day of their lives.
But true disciples will and do see him the flesh at all times and are not waiting for some invisible Christ to return to Earth one day in future.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

When do the pure in heart see God? They see God in the flesh on Earth as soon as their heart is pure and their eyes are opened to see. They do not need to wait till after their physical bodies die for it to happen or wait for some invisible person to make an appearance in literal clouds.
I know from experience because once I was blind but NOW I see Christ in the flesh on Earth every single day.

nice! won't be popular, i guess, but well said.

 

[bbyrd009]

Matthew 24
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

.

hmm, i note that you were not directed to go looking for Christ somewhere though. And this passage is not denying the Body of Christ. Is it?

 

[Job]

hmm, i note that you were not directed to go looking for Christ somewhere though.

The point of the passage is, Jesus is not here walking the earth. So whether she told me to go look for Him or not, her statement is false. Jesus is not here in the flesh.

And this passage is not denying the Body of Christ. Is it?

Who said it was?
.

 

[bbyrd009]

The point of the passage is, Jesus is not here walking the earth. So whether she told me to go look for Him or not, her statement is false. Jesus is not here in the flesh.

well, #1 you don't know that for a fact, and #2 if you are the Body of Christ, then yes, He is.