And who is part of or is to be a part of the Body of Christ?

[marks]

If we were the Body now, why would there be so much confusion and disagreement even among those who undoubted love God? Is there sinlessness in all of those Body parts? Jesus died with a flawless record without sin to be the Head of the Body. Will His Body be flawed when it comes to Life? Are the parts of His Body to struggling against each other rather than acting always in accord with God's will?

To answer your question,

Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

We are a body being built up, edified, converted to an edifice, if you will. But we are already this body of Christ, being In Christ. And the building up is to remove these divisions, these doctrines that blow through like waves of the sea.

And how? I think just what this says, by faith and knowledge, we all believe the same thing, all knowing the same Jesus, and where is that knowledge of a certainty found? How comes faith?

Much love!
Mark

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009

amadeus said: ↑
When we are the Body, I believe, the connection will be certain and true to the example that Jesus manifested when he ministered as man for 3½ years.

bbyrd009 said:
How might one even get out of being part of the body, as per

amadeus said: ↑
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many." I Cor 12:12-14[/quote]
The body is to be one, but when and how do we become a part when does our part join with the whole? When a person really is born again [born from above] would he already be a part? Before such a born again person is completely an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer at the end of His course, how could the person fit properly together with everyone else?

"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:16

Maybe just a bit of work on each part is needed prior to being connected permanent and correctly to the Head and the rest of the Body. It would seem that the Head is ready but...

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

It seems that the best place for His Head is on top of the Body, but is the Body ready for Him?

bbyrd009 said:
see imo um Jesus was being completely literal there only "we" like to help Him define that "we" a little better maybe?

The "we" includes all who have been baptized into the One Body and been all [made] to drink into one Spirit. To be baptized means to be immersed and usually we hear about being baptized in water or in fire or in the Holy Spirit but here we read "into One Body". That sounds like a perfect connection to me between each of us who qualifies to the other members of the Body of Christ and of course with the Head [Jesus]. How close is anyone here to getting there. We should be cautious about announcing to the world at large that we are. Do we even always recognize the Head much less the other would be parts? Should we not be approaching the "face to face" vision mentioned by Paul? [I Cor 13:12] If we cannot hear the voice of the Head how obedient to Him are we able to be? If we hear but do not obey why would even be selected for placement as a part of the Body?

So then who is in that "we"? Don't everyone stand up at once. Only by God working in us can we ever attain to it and if we quench instead of drink the Spirit, how much work will ever be done in us?

 

[amadeus]

So then we are not now the body of Christ. When do you see the body of Christ coming to life?

How do you answer the question your OP asks?

Much love!

If I have not already written here what I believe about the Body of Christ what more can I say to express myself more clearly? When was it or that the bones in Ezekiel came to Life? The Body of Christ will come to Life when it is God's time. Do we need to know that time? Why? We don't need every single answer in every detail. We simply need to work while it is day for soon the night is coming when no man can work.

What I believe will irrelevant to the readers here if it is wrong. But I think that I have already stated what I believe.

 

[amadeus]

To answer your question,

Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

We are a body being built up, edified, converted to an edifice, if you will. But we are already this body of Christ, being In Christ. And the building up is to remove these divisions, these doctrines that blow through like waves of the sea.

And how? I think just what this says, by faith and knowledge, we all believe the same thing, all knowing the same Jesus, and where is that knowledge of a certainty found? How comes faith?

Much love!
Mark

Good answer but consider who is or should be included in the pronoun "we". Consider the many who suppose themselves to already be and proclaim it sometimes loudly... while doing nothing. How does one grow in the Lord?
Aren't many now still children unnecessarily because they have stunted their growth by quenching the Holy Spirit within? The only time to stop growing in God is when there is no more time. Have any of us run out of time?

 

[APAK]

We are chosen and are in the Body of Christ today! We all have the common Spirit within us that unites us with the head, Christ. One major problem with religious Christianity today and even yesterday is that many of these members cry out and wonder why are there so many divisions and contentious issues within the Body. Aren't we meant to be one in Christ they say, one as in one Spirit and purpose? Not in this world! Well scripture says we shall be as one in Spirit when we are perfected, not in this mortal state. We are to follow and abide in the Spirit today and not force our own will and force conformity on others within the chosen Body today, that has causes even more division. Look at past and see what religious folks have caused, and many were never part of the Body. They were tares.

We shall realize that the Body becomes mature collectively and READY for Christ the Bridegroom, when our salvation in realized, in our bodies of immortality.

In the meantime, before that time arrives, we continue to grow in the Spirit at the pace set for us in faith, and to the degree we humble ourselves and yield our will over to the our Lord and Saviour.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[ScottA]

"And who is part of or is to be a part of the Body of Christ?"

The dead in Christ and the living in Christ, the two witnesses; and of this time, those who have received Him in spirit, who's bodies are now His (to live is Christ).

 

[Helen]

If we were the Body now, why would there be so much confusion and disagreement even among those who undoubted love God? Is there sinlessness in all of those Body parts? Jesus died with a flawless record without sin to be the Head of the Body. Will His Body be flawed when it comes to Life? Are the parts of His Body to be struggling against each other rather than acting always in accord with God's will?

Fun thread John.

I have not read the last page yet...so maybe the conversation has already moved on from here.

I agree with @marks here I think...( not that I have read all of these later posts yet )

I have always seen that The Body of Christ are ALL of the true believers warts and all. (some 'uncomely parts' ) That is why the Body of Christ is a mess/sick it tries to function so many time without harkening to the Head.
That is why the Church has and demonstrates no power on the earth today and is a laughing stock.

And that I why I do not believe the The Church/Body is the whole Bride.
The Bride is chosen out of the Church. It is she that He is in full union with.

( and because I believe in sonship, I see a third drawing out...being the overcoming sons, ( one group) that is the heir and inheritor of his Father and for wont of how to say it ...Runs the business for Him. )

Interesting...I don't think I have ever heard before , the concept that all of the Church/believers , may not be the Body of Christ.

 

[Helen]

I'm sorry, I was wondering something, but on second thought, I'll leave it lay . . .

Sorry!

Much love!

I hope as I read down this thread that you do some of your 'wondering' out loud.

 

[Helen]

@bbyrd009 amadeus said: ↑
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many." I Cor 12:12-14

The body is to be one, but when and how do we become a part when does our part join with the whole? When a person really is born again [born from above] would he already be a part? Before such a born again person is completely an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer at the end of His course, how could the person fit properly together with everyone else?

"From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:16

Maybe just a bit of work on each part is needed prior to being connected permanent and correctly to the Head and the rest of the Body. It would seem that the Head is ready but...

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

It seems that the best place for His Head is on top of the Body, but is the Body for Him?



The "we" includes all who have been baptized into the One Body and been all [made] to drink into one Spirit. To be baptized means to be immersed and usually we hear about being baptized in water or in fire or in the Holy Spirit but here we read "into One Body". That sounds like a perfect connection to me between each of us who qualifies to the other members of the Body of Christ and of course with the Head [Jesus]. How close is anyone here to getting there. We should be cautious about announcing to the world at large that we are. Do we even always recognize the Head much less the other would be parts? Should we not be approaching the "face to face" vision mentioned by Paul? [I Cor 13:12] If we cannot hear the voice of the Head how obedient to Him are we able to be? If we hear but do not obey why would even be selected for placement as a part of the Body?

So then who is in that "we"? Don't everyone stand up at once. Only by God working in us can we ever attain to it and if we quench instead of drink the Spirit, how much work will ever be done in us?[/QUOTE]


" Behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. And He said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live?
And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest."

Ez 37

 

[Helen]

If I have not already written here what I believe about the Body of Christ what more can I say to express myself more clearly? When was it or that the bones in Ezekiel came to Life? The Body of Christ will come to Life when it is God's time. Do we need to know that time? Why? We don't need every single answer in every detail. We simply need to work while it is day for soon the night is coming when no man can work.

What I believe will irrelevant to the readers here if it is wrong. But I think that I have already stated what I believe.

Funny...when I just posted that verse from Ezekiel I had not read this one of yours.

Agree, the Body is very sick...sick unto death right now...and very very dry!

Only the breath of God touching the bones will prove/show who will rise to their feet and be ONE army, ONE Body.

And as @APAK said...the rest never were 'wheat.'

 

[marks]

Good answer but consider who is or should be included in the pronoun "we". Consider the many who suppose themselves to already be and proclaim it sometimes loudly... while doing nothing. How does one grow in the Lord?
Aren't many now still children unnecessarily because they have stunted in their growth by quenching the Holy Spirit within? The only time to stop growing in God is when there is no more time. Have any of us run out of time?

I like Sir Anderson's use of "Christendom", as including all those who claim Christianity, or associate themselves with the faith, contrasted to Christianity, the true believers. The redeemed, converted.

These, the redeemed, are of course the ones I see as being in the Body of Christ, being baptised into Him. We are compared to children, yes, and we grow, yes, and many do many things which hinder, yes. Just the same, I prefer to look to what the Word tells me. We are In Christ, and are His body.

As far as growing, I think that there are those who prefer to stay young, and do not mature. I think there are those who think they are mature already, and don't mature, prefering to be wise in their own eyes. The best way, in my view, is to remain humble, teachable, ready to receive from the Word of God, knowing that the one who seeks will find.

One last thought . . . I don't think it will ever be time to stop growing. I'll never catch up to an infinite God!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Agree, the Body is very sick...sick unto death right now...and very very dry!

Hi Helen,

Is it truly? <begin rant> I know many who claim Christianity, but have no fruit in their lives, and I don't know whether they are true or not. But I know many who show the love of God in them, who speak according to the Word, who live in faith.

I've heard for so many years how the church has failed failed failed, I'm so tired of that, when I read in the Bible that we always walk in triumph.

If triumph is perfect sinlessness then we'll never know in this life whether we are even there, speaking from Scripture. Jesus will judge the motives of our hearts when He comes. We will not, before then, somehow become competent judges of ourselves, ever in this life.

So how could we even know? That we're sinless?

We are In Christ, being born again, and we are to take that new nature and exert its control over the flesh, to prevent the flesh from continuing in it's sin. I know you know these things!

And we walk in triumph not because we never yield control to the flesh no not for a second, we walk in triumph because that old man born from Adam isn't me anymore, I'm the spirit child of God, and my life is Jesus living in me. And that's not failing.

In Christ there is no sin, while in the flesh nothing good lives. The child born from God, being in Christ, is righteous and truly holy, while the body in which we live, these holy and righteous children, is that detestable flesh!

But thank God! In Christ, there is no sin! Whoever is born of God doesn't sin!

Much much love!

 

[Helen]

Hi Helen,

Is it truly? <begin rant> I know many who claim Christianity, but have no fruit in their lives, and I don't know whether they are true or not. But I know many who show the love of God in them, who speak according to the Word, who live in faith.

I've heard for so many years how the church has failed failed failed, I'm so tired of that, when I read in the Bible that we always walk in triumph.

If triumph is perfect sinlessness then we'll never know in this life whether we are even there, speaking from Scripture. Jesus will judge the motives of our hearts when He comes. We will not, before then, somehow become competent judges of ourselves, ever in this life.

So how could we even know? That we're sinless?

We are In Christ, being born again, and we are to take that new nature and exert its control over the flesh, to prevent the flesh from continuing in it's sin. I know you know these things!

And we walk in triumph not because we never yield control to the flesh no not for a second, we walk in triumph because that old man born from Adam isn't me anymore, I'm the spirit child of God, and my life is Jesus living in me. And that's not failing.

In Christ there is no sin, while in the flesh nothing good lives. The child born from God, being in Christ, is righteous and truly holy, while the body in which we live, these holy and righteous children, is that detestable flesh!

But thank God! In Christ, there is no sin! Whoever is born of God doesn't sin!

Much much love!

Rant on...

You prove my point...WITHIN the Church there is a gem..the Bride.
Not all walk in triumph. Not all walk in love.
Just read some posts on the site...some are rude, sneering, condemning...not really attributes which draw anyone to Christ!
Not spoken ( written) in the spirit of Christ. Tearing down , rather than building up the Body of Christ as a triumphant Church.

I guess we are back again to the wheat v tares.

Maybe I should have said..."in the eyes of the world, the church is sick...the gatherings around here are all hippy-bippy, happy-clappy, but in actual fact there is not enough godly power in any local church ( and this is a big city) to blow the fuzz of off a dandelion.

Just my two cents.

 

[APAK]

Fun thread John.

I have not read the last page yet...so maybe the conversation has already moved on from here.

I agree with @marks here I think...( not that I have read all of these later posts yet )

I have always seen that The Body of Christ are ALL of the true believers warts and all. (some 'uncomely parts' ) That is why the Body of Christ is a mess/sick it tries to function so many time without harkening to the Head.
That is why the Church has and demonstrates no power on the earth today and is a laughing stock.

And that I why I do not believe the The Church/Body is the whole Bride.
The Bride is chosen out of the Church. It is she that He is in full union with.

( and because I believe in sonship, I see a third drawing out...being the overcoming sons, ( one group) that is the heir and inheritor of his Father and for wont of how to say it ...Runs the business for Him. )

Interesting...I don't think I have ever heard before , the concept that all of the Church/believers , may not be the Body of Christ.

As the Body of the Bride, Eve, came out of the 1st Adam, his closest rib to his heart, so too the Body of the Bride, the Church, comes/came out of the 2nd Adam, closest to his heart.....the others not chosen were not the wheat, they grew up with/ around/close to the Body and were cast out as the tares....

Bless you,

APAK

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If we were the Body now, why would there be so much confusion and disagreement even among those who undoubted love God? Is there sinlessness in all of those Body parts? Jesus died with a flawless record without sin to be the Head of the Body. Will His Body be flawed when it comes to Life? Are the parts of His Body to be struggling against each other rather than acting always in accord with God's will?

I've been going back and forth in this thread.
(I've been walking to And fro )

Took me forever to find again this one post I was looking for. Whew!

I'm struggling a little with what you're saying. I felt sometimes a part of the body when I would find someone in here that I would connect with. Like, I'd see their fruit and would know they belonged to me and I belonged to them. I don't know that I can understand the thought that we aren't part of the body until we are grown enough to put away childish things or until we move in lockstep.

I guess I would think we are a sick body before I would think we aren't part of the body at all...

Just struggling to understand.

 

[marks]

Maybe I should have said..."in the eyes of the world, the church is sick...the gatherings around here are all hippy-bippy, happy-clappy, but in actual fact there is not enough godly power in any local church ( and this is a big city) to blow the fuzz of off a dandelion.

I keep reading this part, and you keep cracking me up, but so sadly true! But I love to be wrong, and in this case, being wrong would be a wonderful thing.

I think of the treasure in the field. The man finds the treasure, and re-buries it, hiding it again, then buys the field.

If the field is the world, all humanity, and the treasure, the people of God within humanity (I know we may differ a little here, bear with me) then how is it the treasure is hidden? After all, everyone knows about the Christians! But the treasure is hidden, isn't it?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Fun thread John.

I have not read the last page yet...so maybe the conversation has already moved on from here.

I agree with @marks here I think...( not that I have read all of these later posts yet )

I have always seen that The Body of Christ are ALL of the true believers warts and all. (some 'uncomely parts' ) That is why the Body of Christ is a mess/sick it tries to function so many time without harkening to the Head.
That is why the Church has and demonstrates no power on the earth today and is a laughing stock.

And that I why I do not believe the The Church/Body is the whole Bride.
The Bride is chosen out of the Church. It is she that He is in full union with.

( and because I believe in sonship, I see a third drawing out...being the overcoming sons, ( one group) that is the heir and inheritor of his Father and for wont of how to say it ...Runs the business for Him. )

Interesting...I don't think I have ever heard before , the concept that all of the Church/believers , may not be the Body of Christ.

Thank Helen!
Your little extra there may have swayed me more heavily toward the separation for the Bride because she is the flawless one. The whole of the Body are all "saved", but that means their hearts are right even though they have some flaws as you indicate. It fits in also with the differences among those saved in the flood in the time of Noah. Only the Bride ends up at the top.

 

[amadeus]

I like Sir Anderson's use of "Christendom", as including all those who claim Christianity, or associate themselves with the faith, contrasted to Christianity, the true believers. The redeemed, converted.

Sorry without looking it up I haven't a clue who Mr. or Sir Anderson is. It is a good enough conclusion as far as it
goes, but the way I see it is that today the definitions of "Christians" and "Christianity" have already been changed for most people. The changes in the definitions people understand continue so that at times those called "Christian" by too many bear little on resemblance to the Jesus we should be seeing if we are seeing and hearing with the eyes and hears of the Holy Ghost in us. Too much quenching the Spirit.

These, the redeemed, are of course the ones I see as being in the Body of Christ, being baptised into Him. We are compared to children, yes, and we grow, yes, and many do many things which hinder, yes. Just the same, I prefer to look to what the Word tells me. We are In Christ, and are His body.

OK

As far as growing, I think that there are those who prefer to stay young, and do not mature.

This is where I see many [I purposely do not say all] who embrace the doctrine of OSAS. It leads too many people to get lazy in their walk with God so instead of climbing on toward the top of the mountain they rest on their laurels on a seemingly pleasant plateau before they have finished their course. To me this is comparable to the lukewarm of Rev 3:15 spit out of the mouth of God. The only resting place in Jesus and that is NOT a place to stand still... but rather the means to make it possible continue along the highway of holiness toward God. this means toward the Light and toward the Top. We will not be there ever unless we endure to the end of our course with Him here.

I think there are those who think they are mature already, and don't mature, prefering to be wise in their own eyes. The best way, in my view, is to remain humble, teachable, ready to receive from the Word of God, knowing that the one who seeks will find.

One last thought . . . I don't think it will ever be time to stop growing. I'll never catch up to an infinite God!

Give God the glory!

 

[marks]

This is where I see many [I purposely do not say all] who embrace the doctrine of OSAS. It leads too many people to get lazy in their walk with God so instead of climbing on toward the top of the mountain they rest on their laurels on a seemingly pleasant plateau before they have finished their course.

Hi amadeus,

I would disagree with this. Now, whether there are many who believe this, and who likewise remain immature, we can only speculate wheter this reason or that reason may be the reason. that being said . . .

My knowing that I am safe in Jesus, that He's got me right where He wants me, and nothing will ever change that, actually does just the opposite in me. It liberates me into a new live, actually much like what episkopos describes, though we have a disagreement over how this happens, just the same, the walk in the Spirit where we simply flow through live as it were carried in the wind of the Spirit.

And in fact, I've watched so many people, once they come to understand this, suddenly see how God intended us not to live according to judgments and decrees, but according to love and life. I see them being to live anew, with a liberty and freedom that releases them into the will of God, amazing deliverance!

Law empowers sin. Romans 7. Law increases sin. Romans 4, I think. Law makes sin utterly sinful. Law bring condemnation - only. God has freed us from Law. This is part of being freed from sin.

I think this notion that we can be born from God, then cease to be His children, to be crippling towards a true spiritual walk. It focuses us on ourselves, instead of on Jesus.

I mean, even in humans, once a child is born, that never undoes itself. So why should it with such a more perfect relationship? But to think otherwise, well, it is the truth that sets us free.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I've been going back and forth in this thread.
(I've been walking to And fro )

Took me forever to find again this one post I was looking for. Whew!

I'm struggling a little with what you're saying. I felt sometimes a part of the body when I would find someone in here that I would connect with. Like, I'd see their fruit and would know they belonged to me and I belonged to them. I don't know that I can understand the thought that we aren't part of the body until we are grown enough to put away childish things or until we move in lockstep.

I guess I would think we are a sick body before I would think we aren't part of the body at all...

Just struggling to understand.

Notice that the post of mine your quoted is questions. The way you put is likely closer to the truth. We will not all of us parts of the Body suddenly be connected completely and perfectly to one another and to Jesus. In a measure the connections with some already exist and the connections with Jesus already exist. As we grow in Christ more connections will likely be made and the ones we already have should grow closer and stronger. While Ezekiel 37 may be speaking of other things we should notice that all of the dead dry bones are not instantaneously together and Alive. That is at least for us a type or shadow the Body of Christ. So yes, I believe you are correct. Thanks!