Another question for mormons.

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Brakelite

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The Logical Evidence:

On another note, some 'skeptics' , or even so-called Bible scholars [like the 'lawyers, scribes, etc of Jesus' day], try to point out in scripture, like this location, and say, “See, your Bible cannot be trusted, as it has gaps in the Genealogies, and therefore who knows how many persons are missing, etc, etc.” Yet, the only reason we know that there are so-called “gaps” in certain places like Matthew or elsewhere in the first place, is because those so-called “gaps” are filled in elsewhere, which means, there are no actual gaps in scripture [KJB].

Also, this particular example is good, because of what else it shows. Namely, that even though Jeremiah wrote [through Baruch; Jeremiah 36:1-4 KJB] the original note/letter and sent it to the King, from God, the King cut up and burned the original copy. Therefore, that “original manuscript” is forever lost [except God bring it back through miracle]. This goes to show that those who claim to only believe the “original manuscripts” do not know what they are talking about.

The “original manuscripts” are long gone, destroyed, burned, faded, erased, or re-used [called a 'palimpsest', scrape over a lambskin, etc and rewrite on top], buried at sea and eaten, and so on.

God does not care so much about the “originals” as He does about simply “preserving” His word [see Psalms 12:6-7 KJB], generally through memory, copying, etc.

Well, since the King cut up and burned [Jeremiah 36:23 KJB] the “original” manuscript copy of the letter by Jeremiah/Baurch, how then do we have a copy of it in scripture to read [Jeremiah 36 KJB]? Did you take notice all of the times that “scribes” are near at hand, making copies of what is said, or written? What was more important, the “original” or preserving what was said by God?

Obviously preserving the words, not the “original” manuscript.

Yet, this is not all, for we even see that God had Jeremiah/Baruch, write an “original” manuscript number 2, to repeat what was in the first “original” with even more words, see Jeremiah 36:28,32 KJB. Therefore, we see, that if a piece of God's word be maliciously destroyed, God, through one means or another, preserves it. In this instance, Jeremiah and Baruch were to write such again, and add more to it.

Thus we now have “original” manuscript number 2.

Yet this “original” manuscript is taken and tied to a stone and cast into the Euphrates river [Jeremiah 51:63 KJB], thus eliminating “original” manuscript number 2, by decree of God, through an angel.

How then do we have those words in Jeremiah since the “original” manuscript 2 was purposefully destroyed at God's own command? Well, someone obviously made a copy of those words, either Jeremiah/Baruch, or a “scribe” in either the Temple or King's court, etc and thus we then have “original” manuscript number 3.

Yet, to be sure, “original” manuscript number 3 is more than likely, as the other two, long since been disintegrated. It is not the “originals” that are important, but rather it is the preservation [by God] of those words which were given by God [Acts 1:16; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21 KJB].

Consider also the original Tables of Stone written upon by the finger of God, were broken by Moses [Exodus 32:19; Deuteronomy 9:17 KJB].

Was the medium of the material important as much as the words, or were the words to be preserved instead on a new [though similar] medium [Exodus 34:1; Deuteronomy 10:2 KJB]?

God's words are still available today in the preserved word of God, in English, the King James Bible, and may be found in Exodus 20:1-17 KJB. No old fragment of an "original" is needed. God's word is "quick" ['living'; Hebrews 4:12 KJB], not dead.

God stated that God would preserve God's own words. We have the statement not just in the KJB (400 years), but long before that preserved in various languages since the dawn of the Epistle itself.
Thanks for that. Very good. I might add a question. With Jeremiah and Baruch rewriting the scroll, only with more words, did they then "add to scripture"? Does that make Jeremiah a false prophet because He "added to the word of God" in the original mss? If one were a legalist, that would be the logical conclusion. The same people would criticize "inspiration" today, as in the many inspired poems, music, sermons, lectures etc etc that Christians have been producing for centuries under the guidance and inspiration of the holy Spirit. Have they all "added to the word" and thus should be condemned as false prophets and liars?
 

justbyfaith

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How bout Paul's contradictions against Jesus' in the Bible? Is that all correct? Jesus said without works you'll go to the lake of fire. Paul contradicts that. kjv.

You would have to share the references of where you find these apparent contradictions in the kjv...for I believe that I can reconcile them doctrinally if you will show forth what they are.

Are you a closet MORON? Notice I let out the "M".

Only if I believe in Moron-I.
 

ReChoired

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Thanks for that. Very good. I might add a question. With Jeremiah and Baruch rewriting the scroll, only with more words, did they then "add to scripture"?
No. No more than Daniel writing Chapter 2 after Chapter 1. :rolleyes:

Example of Adding to scripture:

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.​

Example of Taking away from scripture:

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:​
 
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ReChoired

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@ReChoired

the fallacy known as" the appeal to authority" ad nauseum .............

nuff said...........

I've heard all the arguments long before you were born.....................

next....................................
The authority appealed to is Scripture (KJB; Isaiah 8:20). Who/what are you saying I am appealing to?
 

ReChoired

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Taking your day or worship example: LDS Christians believe it’s very important to set aside a day of rest and worship. However, this doesn’t have to be any particular calendar day of the week. Which day is most common varies across the world.

I realize that this is different than SDA beliefs, and it’s something we’ll simple have to agree to disagree on.

If you want me to sort out fact from fiction for anything else, just let me know.
My ("your" (sic)) day??? Since when is it my day, I thought God said:

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:​

You are not interested in sorting out fact from fiction, by saying what you have. You said it doesn't matter in effect. If you truly wanted to sort out fact from fiction, you would surely know that it does matter.

"set aside "a" day" ... in perfect rejection of the day God Himself sanctified, and you personally choose in opposition to Him? You can simply set aside a day that God never sanctified in contradistinction to your own LDS sources (upon request)?

LDS aren't christians (that doesn't take away that some worship the true God in ignorance and God accepts them). They're "mormons" (which word is not found once in all of history until Joseph Smith).

You are afraid (a coward; fearful, Revelation 21:8) to look for real and instead hides behind platitudes and appearance of holiness.
 

Jane_Doe22

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My ("your" (sic)) day??? Since when is it my day, I thought God said:

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:​

You are not interested in sorting out fact from fiction, by saying what you have. You said it doesn't matter in effect. If you truly wanted to sort out fact from fiction, you would surely know that it does matter.

"set aside "a" day" ... in perfect rejection of the day God Himself sanctified, and you personally choose in opposition to Him? You can simply set aside a day that God never sanctified in contradistinction to your own LDS sources (upon request)?

LDS aren't christians (that doesn't take away that some worship the true God in ignorance and God accepts them). They're "mormons" (which word is not found once in all of history until Joseph Smith).

You are afraid (a coward; fearful, Revelation 21:8) to look for real and instead hides behind platitudes and appearance of holiness.
I agree to disagree with you here.
 

Jane_Doe22

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welcome to the world of the internet trolls who are only here to cause dissention and get a reaction out of others.
People whom want to rant and rave can rant and rave.

I'm interested in respectful conversation about different beliefs, seeking to better understand & love each other.
 
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ChristisGod

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People whom want to rant and rave can rant and rave.

I'm interested in respectful conversation about different beliefs, seeking to better understand & love each other.
Well when they refuse to accept that you believe in Deity of Christ and the Trinity and say you are outside of Christ then they are the self righteous pharisees in Matthew 23 that Jesus rebuked. Some don't want honest dialogue unfortunately.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Well when they refuse to accept that you believe in Deity of Christ and the Trinity and say you are outside of Christ then they are the self righteous pharisees in Matthew 23 that Jesus rebuked. Some don't want honest dialogue unfortunately.
Like this, with the disclaimer that usual disclaimer about how I don't accept consubstantiality and hence do not consider myself a Trinitarian. Accepting that Christ is the Sin Son of God, one with the Father & Spirit, and shares all their attribute, yes.
 

Brakelite

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People whom want to rant and rave can rant and rave.

I'm interested in respectful conversation about different beliefs, seeking to better understand & love each other.
Agreeing to disagree is a cop out for those who cannot defend their position. Just as you cannot defend yours. You, your church, and all Protestant churches observe a day that is not sanctioned in scripture. Anywhere. Nor could it be sanctioned by the early church and be accepted by God because the blood of the Lamb had already sealed the testament. Nothing of the new testament could be altered after Calvary. Everything that pertained to the new testament was settled and decided before the cross, affirmed by Christ Himself by word and example. That included the observance of the Sabbath, and the early church recognized this and did follow His example until some heretical upstarts in Rome began to undermine the authority of our Lord and pretend their church and its traditions was of greater authority. Do you believe you have greater authority than the Son of God and can change His holy day to whatever other day you choose so long as it is just one day out of 7? Can you justify and offer any reasons for doing so other than convenience?
 
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ReChoired

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I agree to disagree with you here.
You will say that about any doctrine that is found to be contrary to LDS theology. I even gave you the state of the dead. Do you also refuse to look at the material and consider fact from fiction, or is that another area where you "agree to disagree"?

We could even compare prophets.

We could even compare Heavens.

We could even compare Temples.

We could even compare Ministrations of High Priests.

We could even compare diets.

We could even compare &c.

Which will you take up, if anything at all?

I am a Seventh-day Adventist. Your choice.
 

ChristisGod

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You will say that about any doctrine that is found to be contrary to LDS theology. I even gave you the state of the dead. Do you also refuse to look at the material and consider fact from fiction, or is that another area where you "agree to disagree"?

We could even compare prophets.

We could even compare Heavens.

We could even compare Temples.

We could even compare Ministrations of High Priests.

We could even compare diets.

We could even compare &c.

Which will you take up, if anything at all?

I am a Seventh-day Adventist. Your choice.
What is ESSENTIAL to believe to become a born again follower of Christ ?
 

Jane_Doe22

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Accepting that Christ is the Sin Son of God, one with the Father & Spirit, and shares all their attribute, yes.
How do you reconcile the above, with the scriptural declaration that the Son, the Word, Jesus, created all things. Including angels, which includes Lucifer.
There's no conflict to be reconciled between the two statements. Yes, Christ is the Sin Son of God, one with the Father & Spirit, and shares all their attribute. Yes, God created the world the heavens and all things therein.
Agreeing to disagree is a cop out for those who cannot defend their position. Just as you cannot defend yours. You, your church, and all Protestant churches observe a day that is not sanctioned in scripture. Anywhere. Nor could it be sanctioned by the early church and be accepted by God because the blood of the Lamb had already sealed the testament. Nothing of the new testament could be altered after Calvary. Everything that pertained to the new testament was settled and decided before the cross, affirmed by Christ Himself by word and example. That included the observance of the Sabbath, and the early church recognized this and did follow His example until some heretical upstarts in Rome began to undermine the authority of our Lord and pretend their church and its traditions was of greater authority. Do you believe you have greater authority than the Son of God and can change His holy day to whatever other day you choose so long as it is just one day out of 7? Can you justify and offer any reasons for doing so other than convenience?
You will say that about any doctrine that is found to be contrary to LDS theology. I even gave you the state of the dead. Do you also refuse to look at the material and consider fact from fiction, or is that another area where you "agree to disagree"?

We could even compare prophets.

We could even compare Heavens.

We could even compare Temples.

We could even compare Ministrations of High Priests.

We could even compare diets.

We could even compare &c.

Which will you take up, if anything at all?

I am a Seventh-day Adventist. Your choice.
I am under no obligation to argue with every person whom wishes to pick and argument and "prove" themselves right. Rather, I'm here for respectful conversation whereon person spend time better learning about what others believe to better understand and love each other. I acknowledge your decisions and faith to be SDA and have learned much about SDA beliefs during my time on this forum. I will not be engaging in any of arguments about "anyone whom doesn't worship on Saturday is damned". If you would like to listen to and learn more abut what I believe, feel free to ask.
 

ChristisGod

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There's no conflict to be reconciled between the two statements. Yes, Christ is the Sin Son of God, one with the Father & Spirit, and shares all their attribute. Yes, God created the world the heavens and all things therein.


I am under no obligation to argue with every person whom wishes to pick and argument and "prove" themselves right. Rather, I'm here for respectful conversation whereon person spend time better learning about what others believe to better understand and love each other. I acknowledge your decisions and faith to be SDA and have learned much about SDA beliefs during my time on this forum. I will not be engaging in any of arguments about "anyone whom doesn't worship on Saturday is damned". If you would like to listen to and learn more abut what I believe, feel free to ask.
rechoir is a legalist and a self proclaimed forum troll. it is best IMHO to just ignore his posts. when you do that with a troll they leave when no one responds to their childish behavior them they come back under another name they assume and start their disruptive behavior all over again.

I was a moderator many years ago and the trolls and their behavior are easy to spot even under their new forum names their style gives them away as individuals.


see below:


Those who deny Eternal Security


ReChoired said:

I am on multiple forums, though I know you get me banned on others, like CChat (I swap between them, while uploading on at least 6 sites simultaneously, among other things, like video editing, etc.) But that doesn't matter - I always come back. Some sites I have been back so many times I lost count, like CForums and CatholicAnswersForums, &c. Oh, they try to keep me out, and have even drastically changed their rules and monitoring over the years just because of me (alone), and I know so, but none of it helps, I always am able to get back on, no matter if they block an entire continent of IP's, block all non standard emails, block a certain browser, style, block all &c. It's all easy to go around, having access to as many devices and computers around the world I need, from any location.


My response:

and you have just described an internet troll ...................
 

ReChoired

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If you would like to listen to and learn more abut what I believe, feel free to ask.
I already know what LDS believe and practice, right down to the funny underwear with the masonic symbols. They even still practice polygamy, in a theological fashion, that is unless they do it secretly or are FLDS.
 

Jane_Doe22

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I already know what LDS believe and practice, right down to the funny underwear with the masonic symbols. They even still practice polygamy, in a theological fashion.
If you believe you know everything I believe, then you have no reason to talk to me.
Bye.
 
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ChristisGod

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I am here to refute you, since you refuse to address the truth as presented. I gave the opportunity for you to talk. That probation is past.
you can't refute anyone who are you fooling ?

satan quotes scripture so what ?
the demons believe so what ?
false teachers quote scripture and twist it like you , so what ?

how are you any different from them ?
 
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