ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
please define your version of the Trinity, thanks !I deny LDS doctrine of Deity. I also deny the Roman Catholic doctrine of "Trinity". Both are error and of the system of Babylon.
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please define your version of the Trinity, thanks !I deny LDS doctrine of Deity. I also deny the Roman Catholic doctrine of "Trinity". Both are error and of the system of Babylon.
Again actual LDS Christian sources:@ReChoired janes belief in Jesus and the Trinity is no different than yours unless you deny the Deity of Christ and the Trinity.
See how they have to deny their own material, and put forth lies, and couch their theology in terms sounding similar, when the very underlying definitions are not the same - at all?Also relevant fact: the "sources" quoted in anti stuff aren't even LDS doctrinal or policy sources, or even used in actual LDS discourse. They just aren't. ...
LDS Articles of Faith:
James Talmage ( James E. Talmage - Wikipedia ) wrote that Christ had a "unique status in the flesh as the offspring of a mortal mother and of an immortal or resurrected and glorified Father." - Articles of Faith, p. 473 - The Father and the Son
"... The Eternal Father, therefore, is a Being who has had experiences incident to the mortal state. He is a resurrected Being; He conquered death ..." - Essential James E. Talmage – 22 |
"... that God the Eternal Father has passed through experiences analogous to those of our present mortality, and that the Eternal Father is a resurrected Being ..." - Essential James E. Talmage – 22 |
"... and that Father, the Eternal Father, not Jesus Christ, but the Father of Jesus Christ, the Father of His spirit and the Father of His body, was a Man, and has progressed, not by any favor but by the right of conquest over sin, and over unrighteousness, to His present position of priesthood [p.140] ..." - Essential James E. Talmage – 22 |
"... Our Father Advanced and Progressed Until He Became God. President Joseph Fielding Smith said: 'Our Father in heaven according to the prophet [Joseph Smith], had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each father had a father' (Doctrine of Salvation, 2:47). President Joseph F. Smith taught: "I know that God ... [was once as a] Man was born of woman; Christ the savior was born of woman; and God the father was born of woman." (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936. p.2 )[17]
As shown in this chapter, our Father in heaven was once a man as we are now, capable of physical death ... he and our mother in heaven were empowered to give birth to spirit children. ..." [18] ..." - Mormons
"... We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, he was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another more ancient, until out minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds. ...? (Mormon "Apostle" Orson Pratt, in the periodical 'The Seer', 1853, p. 132 - Mormons
The eternal God, JEHOVAH, the Father, died? was "resurrected and glorified" at some point before physically siring 'Jesus' with an earth woman (Mary), his own 'spirit daughter' (who was the spirit Mother???, what was her name, and what is the spirit Mother of Jesus??? if a differing spirit Mother) who was in human flesh???
Where is that in the Bible (KJB)???
The LDS doctrine immortalizes sin and death for that matter (as being eternal and without end).
I do not define anything that is "my version", let alone "trinity". I state what scripture states, see 1 John 5:7-8 KJB:please define your version of the Trinity, thanks !
Is the Son now a spirit like the Father or is He still a man with a human body ?I do not define anything that is "my version", let alone "trinity". I state what scripture states, see 1 John 5:7-8 KJB:
There are Three Persons/Beings of the family JEHOVAH Elohiym.
[1] The eternal (Psalms 90:2) Father JEHOVAH (the Ancient of Days; Daniel 7:9,13,22),The Father and the Son share the same nature (Hebrews 1:1-3; Zechariah 13:7), but the nature of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is a mystery never addressed in scripture. The Father holds a position above that of the Son in the Throne (Genesis 41:40), which they both sit in (Revelation 3:21, 22:3), but it is the Son which sits at the right hand of the Father, and in relationship (as Father to Son; Exodus 20:12).
[2] the eternal (John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Proverbs 8:22-36; Micah 5:2) Son, Jesus JEHOVAH (the Son of God/Son of Man, the Word), and
[3] the eternal (Hebrews 9:14) Holy Ghost/Spirit of JEHOVAH (aka JEHOVAH's Spirit).
The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe (and thus neither the Son).
Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.
As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).
See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:20).
The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).
The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).
So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)
Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).
Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.
You misunderstand the word 'spirit' and thus ask an invalid question.Is the Son now a spirit like the Father or is He still a man with a human body ?
Is Jesus still a man with a human body ? yes or noYou misunderstand the word 'spirit' and thus ask an invalid question.
Jesus (Deity/God, manifest in the flesh; 1 Timothy 3:16; Philippians 2:5-11) was resurrected with a glorified body of mankind (man), having both eternal immortal flesh and bones, that He actually ascended to the 3rd Heaven with:Is Jesus still a man with a human body ? yes or no
its a simple direct question.
You have quoted some scriptures that are seemingly saying something to you, but I guess they are saying something different to me. Without having an idea of where your finger was pointing before I guess the conclusions could be applied to almost to anyone. God inspired the writings but where should the understanding be...unless of course we already had a preconceived one? As @bbyrd009 might say, "Death more abundantly!"Thus is it written:
Jdg_6:30 Then the men of the city said unto Joash, Bring out thy son, that he may die: because he hath cast down the altar of Baal, and because he hath cut down the grove that was by it.
Eze_13:14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
That "wall" is symbolic of the Law of God, which they have replaced with their own mortar (not the stone of God, but man-made mixture), their own law. Their idols (which are many), beginning with Sunday sacredness, is to be torn down by the preaching of the word.
Isa_58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.Their lives (eternal lives) are on the line, and if preach smooth things o questioner, their blood is on my garment (but as of now, it is on their own). Revelation 14:6-12.
Eze_8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
You speak of God standards for truth but criticise those here who uncover church policy that advocates for sin?doesn't matter church policy it matters about sin in the heart and Gods standards for truth.
That's all well and good speaking about what you believe the Father to be now, but what was He before???Also relevant fact: the "sources" quoted in anti stuff aren't even LDS doctrinal or policy sources, or even used in actual LDS discourse. They just aren't. Example of such fake "sources" are 'Journal of Discourses', 'Mormon Doctrine', 'The Seer', etc. At that's even without taking the important of contextual and theological context!
Here's actual LDS sources for one sub-subject:
God, Eternal Nature of
eternal God is thy refuge, Deut. 33:27.- from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God, Ps. 90:2.
- established of old: thou art from everlasting, Ps. 93:2.
- thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end, Ps. 102:27.
- Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, Ps. 146:10.
- lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, Isa. 57:15.
- thy name is from everlasting, Isa. 63:16.
- I am the Lord, I change not, Mal. 3:6.
- being understood by … his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20.
- King eternal, immortal, invisible, 1 Tim. 1:17.
- Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, Heb. 13:8 (Morm. 9:9; Moro. 10:7, 19; D&C 20:11–12).
- Alpha and Omega … the first and the last, Rev. 22:13.
- course of the Lord is one eternal round, 1 Ne. 10:19 (Alma 37:12; D&C 3:2; 35:1).
- one Eternal God, Alma 11:44.
- God … being from everlasting to everlasting, Moro. 7:22.
- I am endless, D&C 19:10.
- God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, D&C 20:17.
- Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, D&C 38:1.
- From eternity to eternity he is the same, D&C 76:4.
- Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end, Moses 1:3.
- Endless and Eternal is my name, Moses 7:35.
I could pull a bunch more if you'd like.
That's the problem you have at the moment. You are interpreting. Whereas on my side, it is God who interprets His own words (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; etc), and I interpret nothing for that would be private interpretation, which is forbidden.You have quoted some scriptures that are seemingly saying something to you, but I guess they are saying something different to me.
What @ReChoired is also doing is unmasking the truth of serious error regarding the nature of God and man. Good was once a man such as we are? We can also become gods and rule planets and have offspring with numerous wives? This is serious stuff my friend, regardless of how you view the manner in which it is presented. It does need to be presented because Jane is misrepresenting LDS doctrines on this forum.You have quoted some scriptures that are seemingly saying something to you, but I guess they are saying something different to me. Without having an idea of where your finger was pointing before I guess the conclusions could be applied to almost to anyone. God inspired the writings but where should the understanding be...unless of course we already had a preconceived one? As @bbyrd009 might say, "Death more abundantly!"
Why not let the LDS speak also on the subject:please define your version of the Trinity, thanks !