"Apart From Sin"

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ScottA

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To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Ignoring for the moment that this passage tells of the second coming and the "quick" return of Christ--

What does Paul mean by Jesus appearing "apart from sin?"

It means that the sinful world sees Jesus "no more" just as He said, but that apart from the sins of the world, He appears to some who are saved (born again of God's spirit) while they are yet in the world.

But why does He only appear to "some", even only to some in the church? As Paul said, "To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time"...or as the KJV states, "unto them that look for him?"

I would suggest that it is because, if the door is not fully open...He does not fully enter in. Which then sums up what Paul means by "apart from sin."
 

1stCenturyLady

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To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Ignoring for the moment that this passage tells of the second coming and the "quick" return of Christ--

What does Paul mean by Jesus appearing "apart from sin?"

It means that the sinful world sees Jesus "no more" just as He said, but that apart from the sins of the world, He appears to some who are saved (born again of God's spirit) while they are yet in the world.

But why does He only appear to "some", even only to some in the church? As Paul said, "To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time"...or as the KJV states, "unto them that look for him?"

I would suggest that it is because, if the door is not fully open...He does not fully enter in. Which then sums up what Paul means by "apart from sin."

Jesus already dealt with our sins the first time He came.

The second time He comes, He won't be coming again to deal with our sins:

28 so also Christ died only once as an offering for the sins of many people; and he will come again, but not to deal again with our sins.
 
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ScottA

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Jesus already dealt with our sins the first time He came.

The second time He comes, He won't be coming again to deal with our sins:

28 so also Christ died only once as an offering for the sins of many people; and he will come again, but not to deal again with our sins.
Which of course means He is not appearing a second time to the world.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Which of course means He is not appearing a second time to the world.

They will see Him - "every eye shall see Him." The second coming is not a secret for only His Bride that is sinless - without spot or wrinkle. And that is not "imputed" righteousness as was in the Old Testament like to Abraham like false teachers claim for us, but real, because Jesus in us gives us a divine righteous nature.

Do not be deceived by doctrines of demons
 
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ScottA

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They will see Him - "every eye shall see Him." The second coming is not a secret for only His Bride that is sinless - without spot or wrinkle. And that is not "imputed" righteousness as was in the Old Testament like to Abraham like false teachers claim for us, but real, because Jesus in us gives us a divine righteous nature.

Do not be deceived by doctrines of demons
How do you reconcile that with Jesus' statement, that "the world sees me no more?"

I have reconciled it...but since your post seems to be a contradiction, how is it that you reconcile it? Or do you?
 

Daniel L.

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How do you reconcile that with Jesus' statement, that "the world sees me no more?"

He is talking on behalf of the Spirit of Truth:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

The Spirit of Truth can only be seen by His Saints, who keep His commandments, the world cannot see the Spirit of Truth because they don't believe on Him neither keep His commandments. The Saints are in the world but are not of the world.

The giving of the Spirit of Truth is not the second coming, the Spirit of Truth was seen by His Saints before the second coming, at Pentecaust, so don't confuse the giving of the Spirit of truth with the second coming where "every eye shall see him".
 

ScottA

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He is talking on behalf of the Spirit of Truth:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

The Spirit of Truth can only be seen by His Saints, who keep His commandments, the world cannot see the Spirit of Truth because they don't believe on Him neither keep His commandments. The Saints are in the world but are not of the world.

The giving of the Spirit of Truth is not the second coming, the Spirit of Truth was seen by His Saints before the second coming, at Pentecaust, so don't confuse the giving of the Spirit of truth with the second coming where "every eye shall see him".
The problem with that is you are not counting correctly. Since He has come once in the flesh, and then [again] in the Spirit-- that makes His coming "again" already fulfilled in those to whom He has come into, as Paul said, "each in his own order", "first the natural, then the spiritual."

It is this that reconciles "all truth." Which does not prove accurate if you do not count the Spirit.
 
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Daniel L.

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The problem with that is you are not counting correctly. Since He has come once in the flesh, and then [again] in the Spirit-- that makes His coming "again"

No, that is not a problem, He came once in the flesh, then the Father sent the Comforter in His Name:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So, it is not the second coming of Jesus, it is the first coming of the new Comforter. They are distinct Divine Persons, even tho they are One Family.
 

1stCenturyLady

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The problem with that is you are not counting correctly. Since He has come once in the flesh, and then [again] in the Spirit-- that makes His coming "again" already fulfilled in those to whom He has come into, as Paul said, "each in his own order", "first the natural, then the spiritual."

It is this that reconciles "all truth." Which does not prove accurate if you do not count the Spirit.

Scott that sounds very much like you believe in full Preterism. Is that true?
 

Robert Gwin

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To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Ignoring for the moment that this passage tells of the second coming and the "quick" return of Christ--

What does Paul mean by Jesus appearing "apart from sin?"

It means that the sinful world sees Jesus "no more" just as He said, but that apart from the sins of the world, He appears to some who are saved (born again of God's spirit) while they are yet in the world.

But why does He only appear to "some", even only to some in the church? As Paul said, "To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time"...or as the KJV states, "unto them that look for him?"

I would suggest that it is because, if the door is not fully open...He does not fully enter in. Which then sums up what Paul means by "apart from sin."

Great question Scott, no doubt you know what the first part means that Jesus Christ personally ‘carried our sicknesses and bore our pains’ and ‘bore the sins of many. So why then is he recorded as returning without those sins? It is because of the new covenant and for the life-giving blessings associated with it, including the greater Atonement Day and the ministry of the High Priest, Jesus, in the heavenly Most Holy. The answer to your question was at the beginning of the account:
(Hebrews 9:24-28) . . .For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us. 25 Neither is it in order that he should offer himself often, as indeed the high priest enters into the holy place from year to year with blood not his own. 26 Otherwise, he would have to suffer often from the founding of the world. But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to put sin away through the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this a judgment, 28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for [their] salvation.

Look at it this way, the Bible records Jesus upcoming return as well as what he does, so to those of us earnestly looking to him for our salvation, we see his return as our protection Mat 24:22, but what else does the Bible say about his return, that he will come to remove the wicked and protect the righteous Ps 37:9-11; 2 Thes 1:8,9
 

ScottA

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Great question Scott, no doubt you know what the first part means that Jesus Christ personally ‘carried our sicknesses and bore our pains’ and ‘bore the sins of many. So why then is he recorded as returning without those sins? It is because of the new covenant and for the life-giving blessings associated with it, including the greater Atonement Day and the ministry of the High Priest, Jesus, in the heavenly Most Holy. The answer to your question was at the beginning of the account:
(Hebrews 9:24-28) . . .For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us. 25 Neither is it in order that he should offer himself often, as indeed the high priest enters into the holy place from year to year with blood not his own. 26 Otherwise, he would have to suffer often from the founding of the world. But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to put sin away through the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this a judgment, 28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for [their] salvation.

Look at it this way, the Bible records Jesus upcoming return as well as what he does, so to those of us earnestly looking to him for our salvation, we see his return as our protection Mat 24:22, but what else does the Bible say about his return, that he will come to remove the wicked and protect the righteous Ps 37:9-11; 2 Thes 1:8,9
This is all good, but it would appear that you put the conclusion off to the future (as many do), when God does not put it off, but instead even refers to that time in which Christ shed His blood, as "now"--meaning then. Just as Jesus confirmed, "It is finished."
 
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Robert Gwin

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This is all good, but it would appear that you put the conclusion off to the future (as many do), when God does not put the off, but instead even refers to that time in which Christ shed His blood, as "now"--meaning then. Just as Jesus confirmed, "It is finished."

Jesus finished off sin sir, however until all things are subjected to Jesus, and Jesus enters in before God and subjects himself and all that was done to God, then it is not finished, it is a different finishing, which is still at least a millennium away. Here is the account Scott:
(1 Corinthians 15:22-28) . . .For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
 

ScottA

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Jesus finished off sin sir, however until all things are subjected to Jesus, and Jesus enters in before God and subjects himself and all that was done to God, then it is not finished, it is a different finishing, which is still at least a millennium away. Here is the account Scott:

(1 Corinthians 15:22-28) . . .For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
You are taking God's explanation of events as literal from the world's perspective--but these things are about His ways which are higher, and not as perceived. As I have explained:

In the world (as in Adam) each event comes as Paul explained, "each in his own order." Which is obvious for each in birth, but he was referring to our death and entering into Christ. But in the case of Christ Himself entering into God--these are not of the world, and therefore there is no millennium regarding those events between Christ and the Father. When He went to the Father, He rose above the earth and above that timeline of such events. So, if you want to claim that "It is finished" did not fully occur at His resurrection, but only when He ascended--then great, that much is true. But beyond His ascension and leaving the worldly timeline...what you are seeing and basing your position on, is only of the world. But if you consider yourself not to be of the world, then it is not good that you continue speaking in those terms of the world, but renew your position to the terms of Him who has already enter in. Until then--indeed, there is a millennium between you and Him who is True...which need not be.

As for explaining the timeline in the world as if the Master has delayed His coming (as those evil servants say)--these are the times of the gentiles, that other fold which Christ must also bring. But just as He is the End and only came at the end of that first fold of Israel for whom He first came; He also being the Beginning, also only comes at the beginning of that other fold--for the cross is the apex, once for all. Thus, by faith those of that first fold were saved by looking forward believed in the promise of His coming--and then He came. Likewise, those of the other fold of the gentiles, look backward, believing that He has come already. Which is to say, that although the world perceives these events as not being finished--nonetheless, "It is finished."

And so it is written of Israel, that first fold, and told to Lot: "Escape for your life! Do not look behind you nor stay anywhere in the plain. Escape to the mountains, lest you be destroyed.” And yet the opposite foretold of the gentiles: "Look behind you, O Benjamin! (sons of the right hand)."
 
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amadeus

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This is all good, but it would appear that you put the conclusion off to the future (as many do), when God does not put it off, but instead even refers to that time in which Christ shed His blood, as "now"--meaning then. Just as Jesus confirmed, "It is finished."
Amen!

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
 
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Behold

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To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

It means this..

Jesus came the first time, as the sin bearer....the Lamb to be offered for the sin of the world..
So, the first time Christ came was FOR SIN.........to pay for it on the Cross. John 3:16

The 2nd time, Christ does not come to this world to pay for sin, He comes not for this reason but >(apart from it)<, = for another reason....>He comes not as the Lamb, but as the LION.... He comes not as the suffering servant, but as the King Of Glory.
He comes not to redeem but to destroy,

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

and to sit on David's Throne where the Saints, (the born again) will be with Him in Jerusalem, for that 1000 yr REIGN.
 

ScottA

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It means this..

Jesus came the first time, as the sin bearer....the Lamb to be offered for the sin of the world..
So, the first time Christ came was FOR SIN.........to pay for it on the Cross. John 3:16

The 2nd time, Christ does not come to this world to pay for sin, He comes not for this reason but >(apart from it)<, = for another reason....>He comes not as the Lamb, but as the LION.... He comes not as the suffering servant, but as the King Of Glory.
He comes not to redeem but to destroy,

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

and to sit on David's Throne where the Saints, (the born again) will be with Him in Jerusalem, for that 1000 yr REIGN.
Very close--thanks!

He does however, also come for those who are His, that where He is, they/we may be also.

And it would be inaccurate to continue to portray His reign in terms of years, that is, after departing, at the end, and after the times are fulfilled.
 

Behold

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Very close--thanks!

Your question was..."apart from sin"...
So, i gave you not a "close" answer, but THE answer, to that question.
Now, if you want to change the question, after receiving the answer, then that is fine.
If you have more questions, that is fine.
You take it from there.
 

ScottA

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Your question was..."apart from sin"...
So, i gave you not a "close" answer, but THE answer, to that question.
Now, if you want to change the question, after receiving the answer, then that is fine.
If you have more questions, that is fine.
You take it from there.
Yes, fine. It's just that you went on, and because you did, so did I. ;)
 

Behold

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Yes, fine. It's just that you went on, and because you did, so did I. ;)

I did this because your question, to be answered theologically and spiritually, is Part A and Part B.

Jesus Came the first time = Part A... to die for SIN, ..... so, that is the context that explains why He's coming again....which is part B: "apart from sin"...... IN other words not for the same reason the 2nd time around.
 
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