God will restore all of the eternally damned as well as Lucifer and his fallen angels...Hogwash. Go learn what a synecdoche is.
I guess you would claim that Cleveland, in this context, would mean the whole city.
Apokatastasis in the early church
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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I guess you would claim that Cleveland, in this context, would mean the whole city.
Aren't you claiming that God will restore everything that needs NOT to be restored?
And that God will leave things in need of restoration UNrestored?
I am claiming that He will restore everything that needs to be restored in order to fulfill his promises. Are you saying that he will scoop Lucifer and the rest of the damned from the lake of fire and restore them?
That would be the ultimate triumph of grace.
Jesus taught us to love our enemies.
What should He do with His?
(unless He operates at a lower standard than He holds us to) ???
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In hope that your testimony might lead to their conversion.
After he has laid down his own life and given all and they reject it there is no hope.
God is removing all potential for future rebellion from his freewill creatures. They must see where sin ultimately leads. If there is no consequence for disobedience why should they obey? You have swallowed a variation of satan's original lie
"you shall not surely die" Everything will be ok if you sin....God will restore us all in the end. Hogwash!
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge of your evangelical gospel.
Is that what you call rejecting Christ?
The end of free will?
It's not free will unless there are both good and bad choices to be made.
I didn't say the end of freewill. I am saying he is removing any possibility of rebellion to ever happen again. He is doing this in a 3 fold way:
1) Demonstrating his unfathomable love and manifesting his manifold wisdom to all of creation. His eternal purpose:
Eph 3:10-11 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
2)Letting iniquity to come to it's fullness in order to allow evil to fully manifest in all it's horror
Da 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
3) Showing the severity of the consequences of sin and disobedience
Rv 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
He will not ever remove free will...however, he is proceeding with a plan than insures no one will ever choose evil again.
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Yes, as an example of the consequence of sin for those who did not believe but a source of glorious blessing for those that did.
St. SteVen said:
Having just incinerated His enemies?
Wouldn't unfathomable love show mercy and restoration?
What happened to the prodigal on return to the father?
The judgement/evaluation will require an entire age.
Every nation and leader (government and religious) and each individual will be evaluated.
The good will be preserved while the dross is burned away.
Evaluation/correction/restoration/redemption
Having just incinerated His enemies?
How is that demonstrating his unfathomable love?
Wouldn't unfathomable love show mercy and restoration?
What happened to the prodigal on return to the father?
The judgement/evaluation will require an entire age.
Every nation and leader (government and religious) and each individual will be evaluated.
The good will be preserved while the dross is burned away.
Evaluation/correction/restoration/redemption
What would happen to the prodigal if he never returned?
Agreed
Only those who meet the qualifications for restoration and redemption. Don't swallow satan's lie "thou shall not die"
It was inevitable. The story runs full circle.
What if the prodigal lived out a normal life?
St. SteVen said:
Evaluation/correction/restoration/redemption
LOL
Everyone is qualified to be evaluated (judged), corrected, restored and redeemed.
Everyone being evaluated (judged) has gone through physical death to the afterlife.
Meaning... they died.
The real question is that since Jesus paid our death penalty, why do we still have to die?
Not everyone qualifies for redemption. Why do you blatantly ignore all of the scriptures that show the condition?
Because they failed to have faith in Jesus' sacrifice. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
think he can come to my house to fix it?
No need, my friend. He has prepared a place for you.
Imagine what that will be like.
Apokatastasis in the early church
When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Ultimate Redemption, Ultimate Reconciliation, UR...
There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.
Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.
The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.
--- Agree or disagree? ---
Quotes from the early church fathers in post #2
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
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