Apostolic councils?

[DNB]

It sounds like you're arguing, or trying to establish, whether the Bible tells us if the office of Apostle passes by succession?

There is no official transferring of such knowledge, or a governing body to determine this. You know very well the history of the 1sr century Church, and how the Word of God was disseminated throughout the world. There was a constant struggle on Paul's part, to keep heresy out and at times, he admitted that certain damages were already done.
Man can only decide on his own from who and where to determine the truth. There is no one body anywhere in the world that has bona-fide apostolic succession, nor 100% divine truth.

 

[DNB]

Do you mean to say, Apostleship being defined based on Biblical testimony, is divinely authoritative (council in Jerusalem, Acts 15)?

yes, if the Bible says that they were apostles, then the 100% were. Anyone else making such claims is extremely spurious.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

There is no official transferring of such knowledge, or a governing body to determine this. You know very well the history of the 1sr century Church, and how the Word of God was disseminated throughout the world. There was a constant struggle on Paul's part, to keep heresy out and at times, he admitted that certain damages were already done.
Man can only decide on his own from who and where to determine the truth. There is no one body anywhere in the world that has bona-fide apostolic succession, nor 100% divine truth.

That was a question, not a statement.

 

[DNB]

That was a question, not a statement.

I can't see where it's interrogatory?

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

yes, if the Bible says that they were apostles, then the 100% were. Anyone else making such claims is extremely spurious.

I italicized Apostleship. I was asking if you meant apostleship. You had keyed apostolic.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Never mind. I quit. This is silly.

 

[Marymog]

...no, you don't feel abandoned now, Marymog, but without exception you will be on Judgment Day - by all those tyrants and charlatans that insisted to you, and threatened you, that only they have the truth, ....they will deny that they ever taught you a word.

Hi DNB,

Sooooo YOU believe I will "without exception" feel abandoned on Judgment Day because of all those tyrants and charlatans that threatened me saying that only they have the truth!!!

Sooooo if I listen to YOU and follow/believe the men YOU follow/believe I can rest assured that I am not following charlatans???? Fascinating theory....

BTW....no one has threatened me!

 

[Marymog]

i pointed to the scripture "knock and the door will open" teaching of Jesus, the one that you reject because you teach people should not seek the Father they should seek a group.

Sooooo according to your theory any Christian over the last 2,000 years and in the next 2,000 years knocks on the door it will be opened to them and they will know the truth? When they knock God will reveal to them the correct interpretation of every bible passage??? I believe that is what you are saying....

 

[Marymog]

"one" means everyone is the same? by this logic, you, me, Jesus and the Father are all the same? ohh boy . ..

Ummmmm......Your argument is not with me it is with Jesus. His prayer to his father was that we all be one. Soooooo I don't understand your twisted logic that if we (Christians) are all one (teaching the same thing that Jesus taught the Apostles) then that would then make Jesus, his Father you and me the same??? You make zero sense....

 

[jaybird]

Sooooo according to your theory any Christian over the last 2,000 years and in the next 2,000 years knocks on the door it will be opened to them and they will know the truth? When they knock God will reveal to them the correct interpretation of every bible passage??? I believe that is what you are saying....

if they are seeking the Father yes, that is what Jesus teaches.

 

[jaybird]

Ummmmm......Your argument is not with me it is with Jesus. His prayer to his father was that we all be one. Soooooo I don't understand your twisted logic that if we (Christians) are all one (teaching the same thing that Jesus taught the Apostles) then that would then make Jesus, his Father you and me the same??? You make zero sense....

no my argument is with you, you are not Jesus.

you miss used Jesus "one" teaching to suggest no one can follow Jesus unless they first bow down to a church.

 

[Marymog]

I disagree.

Wow.....thanks for that overwhelming evidence to support your disagreement that baptism as a symbolic gesture didn't start after the Reformation.

Here is MY EVIDENCE for what The Church has taught concerning baptism and it NOT being symoblic starting about 2,000 years:

80AD: THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS 11:1-10 and Second Clement 6
100AD: THE SHEPHERD OF HERMAS 4:3:1-2 and 2:4:3
110AD: Ignatius of Antioch letter to Polycarp of Smyrna 6

Sooooo would you at least like to TRY and back up what you believe with facts instead of your opinion?

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

if they are seeking the Father yes, that is what Jesus teaches.

Oh goodness.....

 

[Marymog]

no my argument is with you, you are not Jesus.

you miss used Jesus "one" teaching to suggest no one can follow Jesus unless they first bow down to a church.

Nope, I didn't say that we should all be one. Jesus said it and I agree with him. You don't. Your argument is with Him, not me.

If you read that passage IN CONTEXT you will see that Jesus is talking about a universal Church where we all believe/practice/preach/teach the same thing. In John 17 Jesus says:

They were yours, and you gave them to me. And they have kept your word. For I have given them the words that you gave to me. And they have accepted these words! Father most holy, preserve them in your name, those whom you have given to me, so that they may be one, even as we are one. Sanctify them in truth. Your word is truth. And it is for them that I sanctify myself, so that they, too, may be sanctified in truth. But I am not praying for them only, but also for those who through their word shall believe in me. So may they all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me, and I am in you, so also may they be one in us: so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

So I ask you Jaybird and @DNB: How can we all be one in His word and the Truth if we don't have a universal Church that is built upon a rock of which the gates of hell will not prevail against (Matthew 16:18)? A universal Church that we can go to when we have a difference with our brother with that universal Church having the authority to call someone a pagan or tax collector (Matthew 18:17)???? A universal Church that is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15)??

I have found that Church. You two are still looking. You two believe YOU can interpret Scripture and come up with your own truth. Scripture teaches opposite of that.

Mary

 

[jaybird]

Nope, I didn't say that we should all be one. Jesus said it and I agree with him. You don't. Your argument is with Him, not me.

If you read that passage IN CONTEXT you will see that Jesus is talking about a universal Church where we all believe/practice/preach/teach the same thing. In John 17 Jesus says:

They were yours, and you gave them to me. And they have kept your word. For I have given them the words that you gave to me. And they have accepted these words! Father most holy, preserve them in your name, those whom you have given to me, so that they may be one, even as we are one. Sanctify them in truth. Your word is truth. And it is for them that I sanctify myself, so that they, too, may be sanctified in truth. But I am not praying for them only, but also for those who through their word shall believe in me. So may they all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me, and I am in you, so also may they be one in us: so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

So I ask you Jaybird and @DNB: How can we all be one in His word and the Truth if we don't have a universal Church that is built upon a rock of which the gates of hell will not prevail against (Matthew 16:18)? A universal Church that we can go to when we have a difference with our brother with that universal Church having the authority to call someone a pagan or tax collector (Matthew 18:17)???? A universal Church that is the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15)??

I have found that Church. You two are still looking. You two believe YOU can interpret Scripture and come up with your own truth. Scripture teaches opposite of that.

Mary

again, my argument is with you, not Jesus, your not Jesus. and just so you know, when people start claiming to be Jesus is a sure sign their theology has issues.

all one with Jesus does not mean two believers can not go to two different churches. like i pointed out before, Jesus and John were of two sects, that does not make them against each other.

if we follow your idea that only one church can be right, we have a big problem because every church that is different makes the claim they are the one church and they all have their own theology to back it up. and you will never know Jesus this way because you will endlessly waste all your time worrying what the other church is thinking rather than learn what Jesus teaches.

 

[Marymog]

all one with Jesus does not mean two believers can not go to two different churches. like i pointed out before, Jesus and John were of two sects, that does not make them against each other. .

Ummmmm......I know. That is what I have been saying this entire time and you have been disagreeing with me.

Scripture makes it clear that there is one Church with one truth. Your theory is that every single Christian for the last 2,000 years and the next 2,000 years will be revealed the truth if they knock on the door. Your theory is anti-biblical.

Mary

what post did you point that out before?

 

[Marymog]

i pointed to the scripture "knock and the door will open" teaching of Jesus, the one that you reject because you teach people should not seek the Father they should seek a group.

Which post did you point to Scripture about "knock and the door will open"??? I can't find that post....

 

[jaybird]

Ummmmm......I know. That is what I have been saying this entire time and you have been disagreeing with me.

Scripture makes it clear that there is one Church with one truth. Your theory is that every single Christian for the last 2,000 years and the next 2,000 years will be revealed the truth if they knock on the door. Your theory is anti-biblical.

Mary

what post did you point that out before?

the one truth would be the Most High. man claiming they are the only truth is just arrogant boasts. and yes i know Jesus was a man and He was truth but we know Jesus was true because Jesus proved Himself time and time again, most churches claiming they are the only truth are doing nothing but talking and not doing. when a church burns people alive thats a dead give away they are not truth.

Which post did you point to Scripture about "knock and the door will open"??? I can't find that post

MT 7 7

 

[Marymog]

MT 7 7

That's not a post #. That is the passage. What post did you quote that passage in?


Patient Mary

 

[DNB]

Hi DNB,

Sooooo YOU believe I will "without exception" feel abandoned on Judgment Day because of all those tyrants and charlatans that threatened me saying that only they have the truth!!!

Sooooo if I listen to YOU and follow/believe the men YOU follow/believe I can rest assured that I am not following charlatans???? Fascinating theory....

BTW....no one has threatened me!

You are extremely difficult to reason with? I've said a hundred times, trust no man or agency implicitly. Take as much truth as you feel makes sense and corresponds with Scripture, and feel confident in what you have exegeted. For, as of now, your confidence and faith lies solely in your church.
Why is it so difficult for you to understand a thing that I am saying? How indoctrinated are you?