Are Gentiles excluded from the promise?

[dragonfly]

Hi Arnie,

If not all (natural) Israel are (spiritual) Israel, then what 'all Israel' refers to, is the whole body of people who join the New Covenant with God, through faith in Jesus Christ, trusting His credentials prophetically, and the out-pouring/seal of the Holy Spirit, to bring us (believers) through to our eternal inheritance.

There are many Israelites, historically, who will have no part in eternal salvation, because they turned away from God, to idols.

Unbelievers cannot be forced to receive salvation. Trusting God is one of the principles by which salvation operates at all and every time.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

The promises were for Israel and for the descendants of Abraham through Issac
Those promises still stand for today and for tomorrow

We gentiles are not Israel and we were "not initially included" in the promise ***
But after Christ came and went , and after the Jews had successfully launched the first church , a provision was made for the Gentiles to become believers as well , it is often called "the branch grafted in for the Gentiles to hang on" (That is where we still hang today)

So we are not included in the "promises" per say ..... but we are beneficiaries because of the grafting in

.........................

*** The OT does mention that the savior would also be a "Light unto the Gentiles"
But that is something separate from "The promises" made to Israel

Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
KJV

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV
Col 3:11-12
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
KJV
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
KJV
Gal 4:24-31
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out{BRING THEM INTO THE NEW COVENANT} the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
KJV

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The name Israel is used many different ways in the bible
There Is Israel the obedient , Israel the disobedient , Israel the believers , Israel the unbelievers , Israel as a nation , Israel as a tribe , Israel as a people , Israel the idolaters , Israel the righteous etc

We have to be careful not to lump them all together as though they all mean the same thing all the time.

Not that i claim to have have distinguished them properly myself ..... that would be a big study all on its own I suppose.

It may very well be that at the very end when Jesus comes back and the few Israeli's still alive accept him ...... maybe they are the only ones God will save other than the ones who accepted jesus when he was down here the first time.

If that is the case it will be a small number of people included in the promises ..... and the majority will be excluded.

I do not feel that God will apply his everlasting covenant only to a very few of His chosen people Israel.

But that's just me.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Arnie,

There have been Israelites and Jews becoming Christians all down through the centuries. The idea that those in the generation in which Christ returns will have more of a chance to believe in Him than any other generation of Israelites and Jews, is a human fabrication.

The obvious interpretation of Christ's teachings/example about what it is to be sent - as He was by His Father, sending the disciples likewise - or, received by a host to whom the sent one has come - as He was received by those who were watching for Him - is that the apostles (missionaries and neighbours) down all generations are ambassadors for Christ, as though God HImself beseeched the hearer through them. The New Testament expresses this understanding from several different angles, and Jesus told Thomas that those who believed without seeing, would be 'blessed'.

Regarding the way the name 'Israel' is used in scripture, there are no mistakes. Only once, way back in the Old Testament, is recorded, 'Israel, my son'. The meaning of this groaning exclamation by God is expressed again and again through the prophets foretelling Messiah, and also in the commission given to John the Baptist Luke 1:15 - 17, 68 - 79, which was first spoken by Malachi 4:5, 6.

Modern Israelis, if they want to be believable as God's chosen people, cannot slide away from God's word to them, except they also accept their punishment. In fact, none of us is exempt from His fondest, most attentive interest, since He died for everyone who has ever and will ever live.