Are Gentiles excluded from the promise?

[guysmith]

Gal 3:29
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As Gentiles, are we excluded from the promises made to Israel? According to the promises made to Abraham, a remnant of Israel is going to be divinely protected, in the land of Israel. Are Gentiles excluded from this promise?

 

[Rex]

Some say yes and some say no.

The yes people will invariably reference Romans 11 and present a verse that supports the notion.

Work out your own salvation.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, guysmith.

Gal 3:29

As Gentiles, are we excluded from the promises made to Israel? Prophetically, a remnant of Israel is going to be divinely protected, in the land of Israel. Are Gentiles excluded from this promise?

That depends on whether one as a Gentile is within the Messiah. If he is a believer and "tucked away" within the Messiah, then he shares in the promises made to Isra'el through the Messiah.

If he is an unbeliever and unjustified, then he cannot participate directly as a recipient of the promises.

HOWEVER, should he survive into the Kingdom Age as a member of a people who treated the Messiah's people well, then he will participate in some of the superabundance of the Kingdom when his people is annexed as a tributary nation to the Messiah's Kingdom - when his leader, his king, becomes one of the kings over which the King of kings presides. He will also have a greater chance of getting to know the Messiah's character and coming to the Messiah's love than if he were a member of another people. That's just God's grace at work for him.

What many do not realize is that LIFE GOES ON during the Kingdom Age, and there may yet be time for those who have not had the chance to learn of the love and favor of God through His powerful Son! How much easier it will be for him when he can see the actions and choices of the King of kings and how they benefit ALL within His Kingdom, whether the core of His Kingdom or the tributaries over which He rules!

Even an unbeliever within a people who mistreated the children of the Kingdom might still have a chance, but it would be an uphill struggle. Nevertheless, if such a person were to notice the favor of the Messiah toward His people and desire to know the Messiah better, despite the popular opinion of his own people, I believe that such a person could divorce himself from his own people in favor of the Messiah, and seek assylum in one of His tributary nations.

A thousand years is a VERY long time, MUCH longer than a mere "seven years," and a lot can happen within a thousand years! God is not static; He is a very DYNAMIC GOD! And, progress will continue to be made within the auspices of His Kingdom during the Millennium until the Messiah is Emperor over the entire earth!

"A smoking wick He will not extinguish and a broken reed He will not snap off." He lets events play out in their own timing - in GOD'S own timing - until they come to fruition.

 

[guysmith]

Shabbat shalom Retrobyter and Rex.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Gal 3:29
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As Gentiles, are we excluded from the promises made to Israel? According to the promises made to Abraham, a remnant of Israel is going to be divinely protected, in the land of Israel. Are Gentiles excluded from this promise?

The promises were for Israel and for the descendants of Abraham through Issac
Those promises still stand for today and for tomorrow

We gentiles are not Israel and we were "not initially included" in the promise ***
But after Christ came and went , and after the Jews had successfully launched the first church , a provision was made for the Gentiles to become believers as well , it is often called "the branch grafted in for the Gentiles to hang on" (That is where we still hang today)

So we are not included in the "promises" per say ..... but we are beneficiaries because of the grafting in

.........................

*** The OT does mention that the savior would also be a "Light unto the Gentiles"
But that is something separate from "The promises" made to Israel

 

[Rex]

Well Arnie I disagree, it was the LORD's intention from the first promise given to Abraham that all the nations would be blessed threw Abraham's decedents.
Gen 22:18 Gen 12:3 Gen 18:18 Gen 26:4 which is exactly what happened. Notice the promise always contains the nations and family's of the earth.
To presume that Gentile salvation was a NT after thought is to ignore the fullness of the promise from its inception.

Acts 3
25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’[d] 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Well Arnie I disagree, it was the LORD's intention from the first promise given to Abraham that all the nations would be blessed threw Abraham's decedents.
Gen 22:18 Gen 12:3 Gen 18:18 Gen 26:4 which is exactly what happened. Notice the promise always contains the nations and family's of the earth.
To presume that Gentile salvation was a NT after thought is to ignore the fullness of the promise from its inception.

Acts 3
25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’[d] 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

It is my understanding we were talking about the promises to Israel.

The topic was not about God's overall plans for mankind.

 

[Rex]

So the promise to Abraham has nothing to do with the promise"s" to Israel?
Don't you think that rather selective. John the baptist said, "And do not think to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father"

That is to say all the promises to Israel are based on the first promise given to Abraham, which included all nations and peoples


And BTW the topic is

Are Gentiles excluded from the promise?
The answer is no

Before Jacob was born and named Israel God promised salvation first to the decedents of Abraham and then to the nations of the world.


See my above post for quick view of these verses
Gen 22:18 Gen 12:3 Gen 18:18 Gen 26:4


As you see here again the promise is to Abraham and to all the earth as well.
My understanding is not in vain it is clearly understood just as I said by Luke in Acts as well.

Acts 3

25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’[d] 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Gal 3:29
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As Gentiles, are we excluded from the promises made to Israel? According to the promises made to Abraham, a remnant of Israel is going to be divinely protected, in the land of Israel. Are Gentiles excluded from this promise?

In order to understand the bible it is:
Important to look to whom the book or epistle is written to.
Then what is the timeline.

The book of Galatians was written to: Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
That would be the Galatians that were alive while Paul was walking here on earth.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

There was at his "present time", not ours, a remnant.

I say this for the benefit of all Christians. We are not the one's to whom the prophecys were written to. None of them.

The promises you ask about was for the Jews of that time.

 

[Episkopos]

Gal 3:29
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As Gentiles, are we excluded from the promises made to Israel? According to the promises made to Abraham, a remnant of Israel is going to be divinely protected, in the land of Israel. Are Gentiles excluded from this promise?

Gentiles are grafted into Israel when they are born of the Spirit. In Christ there is no DNA that separates us from each other.

 

[John_8:32]

Christ returns to the earth and saves Judah first...

Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

Then Israel...

Isa 27:6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit.

Then the Gentiles through Judah and Israel...

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isa 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

To whom is the New Covenant made?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah and then extended to the Gentiles through them. This happens during the Millenium.

 

[Trekson]

I'd like to add my opinion to the question, "Are gentiles excluded from the promise?"

I guess it depends on which promise you are referring.

Regarding the land promise - Yes, we are excluded but we have a better promise" Heb. 6:19, 10:34, 11:16,40. A heavenly one, not an earthly one.

Regarding us a being a "protected" remnant - No, the church is not the righteous remnant of Israel. We will be raptured at the 7th seal before the events of God's wrath begin, although we, as the church, are not spared the great trib, that short term event within the context of the 70th week.

Our promise is the "fact" of the rapture, not the timing of it as many pre-tribs like to believe. We won't be here for the wrath.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Look folks ..... we could argue this topic endlessly and never come to an agreement
I do not have any personal care one way or the other if the church is Israel or if Israel is Israel.
it really doesn't matter to me.

Now I will try to make my point ..... GOD Himself has always treated Israel as unique and He still has unique plans for Israel. The bible is very clear on this.

We may not like it but that is beside the point ..... and furthermore there is a reason for some of our thinking ...... Israel had not existed for almost 2000 years so the theologians and seminary professors began to allegorize Israel as being the church because that is the only way they could make the bible work.
It was once Israel became a nation in 1948 all the scholars realized the mistake and a few have realized the nation Israel still plays a part separate from the church.
But because our libraries are full of mistaken commentaries ..... and most of our denominations are entrenched in the mistake .... it makes things difficult and makes us argue endlessly.

The best remedy is to read the bible .... esp the OT with an eye out for unfulfilled prophecy unique to Israel ...... you will find lots of it ..... and when you apply it to Israel today all the pieces fit together nicely.

Is Israel disobedient ...... YES of course
Has Israel rejected Jesus .... YES of course
Has Israel received forgiveness for sin ..... NO they have not
Has Israel been punished for their sin ..... YES they sure have

So as far as the gospel they are enemies in our eyes
But as far as GOD is concerned He will still keep HIS end of the bargain
And HE says HE does so for HIS own reasons and FOR HIS HOLY NAME
One of HIS reasons is so that NONE of Israels enemy nations can say God did not keep HIS covenant with Israel

There are many quotes in the OT which say it exactly like that

Here are just a couple of examples:
(ps: ... the quotes below are futuristic in context .... ie; unfulfilled prophecy )

You will know that I am the Lord, when I
deal with you for my name’s sake and not according to your evil ways
and your corrupt practices, O house of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.

“‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

“Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord
says: I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and will have
compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name.

He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for
the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites
forever. The house of Israel will never again defile my holy name—neither they nor their kings

 

[Trekson]

Excellent post Arnie, I agree whole-heartedly.

 

[Questor]

AMEN +1 for Arnie & Trekson


Now, if only we could get every pastor to simply read these posts aloud...
a lot of confusion could be avoided, and a lot of anti-semitism to boot.




Q

 

[Rex]

If we could only get you to read Matthew chapter 23 you will find Jesus displayed a bit of anti-semitism as well. I would call it a lot of anti-semitism, threw-out His whole ministry He never had a kind word to say to them.

So how is it that Jesus spoke to those John called vipers and warned them not to think that just because Abraham was there father, that would save them?


I'm confused should we now love those that Jesus rebuked?

 

[Trekson]

Hi Rex, The people Jesus was rebuking were the Pharisees, the religious leaders of Israel. At that point, He wasn't condemning the nation as a whole. I'm sure that same tirade will be used against many Gentile pastors and church leaders come judgment day.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Rex .... Mat 23 was all about how hypocritical the Pharisees were and why the people should not be following them to attain righteousness .... but should follow Jesus instead.

In fairness we could stroke out the word pharisee in Mat 23 and insert christian ....... we are often just as guilty as them

It is called legalism

Find a Jew who has become a christian and ask him why he does not fellowship within the christian denominations

He will reply that he found freedom from the legalism thru Christ but when he steps into some christian churches there is more legalism than some of the pharisees had.

Makes you stop and think for a minute doesn't it

 

[Rex]

Rex .... Mat 23 was all about how hypocritical the Pharisees were and why the people should not be following them to attain righteousness .... but should follow Jesus instead.

In fairness we could stroke out the word pharisee in Mat 23 and insert christian ....... we are often just as guilty as them

It is called legalism

Find a Jew who has become a christian and ask him why he does not fellowship within the christian denominations

He will reply that he found freedom from the legalism thru Christ but when he steps into some christian churches there is more legalism than some of the pharisees had.

Makes you stop and think for a minute doesn't it

They rejected Him
Your completely missing the point the indifference between the Pharisee's and Jesus is they denied him.
The law was there golden egg they loved more than God, they thought themselves arbitrators of law, and failed to recognize the law giver and redeemer.

Hi Rex, The people Jesus was rebuking were the Pharisees, the religious leaders of Israel. At that point, He wasn't condemning the nation as a whole. I'm sure that same tirade will be used against many Gentile pastors and church leaders come judgment day.

What you should be looking at is Israel of the promise and not Israel of the flesh.

Romans 9
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[b] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

I always see the promise as salvation the promise given to Abraham and Sarah THAT INCLUDED ALL THE NATIONS
But you look at what you like

To summarize not all Jews or Hebrews are of the promise, simple enough, or do you still believe all Jews are special simply because they are Jews?
Because I don't see that in the new or old testament.

Please note the word promise in Paul's explanation and the thread tilte

 

[dragonfly]

Abraham was a 'Gentile' when the promises were made to him.

The fact that his grandson became 'Israel', latterly, was not in anyone's mind at the time.



Or, not only was there no such people as 'Israel', but there were no 'Gentiles' either, when God spoke to Abram.