Are Protestants "saved? "

[marks]

View attachment 9131

So there are as many different "you's" as there are people who "know" you? Parallel bbyrds.

 

[Joseph77]

Do any of us need to or want to grow closer to God?

We hope so. (That one, two, ten, as many as God calls, want to grow in Christ Jesus)

Does God ever speak through me?

He can. When you post in line with His Word, His Plan, and His Purpose - or more simply from Him as a source (which then is always in harmony with His Word, His Plan and His Purpose) ,
then yes.

Does He ever speak through you or anyone else who has participated on this thread?

See above. i.e. 'He can...... '

 

[Joseph77]

Indeed! I could respond to each one, but I won't because I know from experience that on every point some man will have a counterpoint.

Yes, many times a day..... etc et al with the rest of your post also.....
In Scripture (God's Word), it is written: 'they' wear out the Ekklesia.... (I forget which book it is in.... will look later, God Willing)

 

[marks]

In Scripture (God's Word), it is written: 'they' wear out the Ekklesia.... (I forget which book it is in.... will look later, God Willing)

Perhaps you are thinking of Daniel . . . although he wrote, Wear out the holy ones.

 

[Joseph77]

ONLY ONE.

... No son of man may die for another's sins

 

[Joseph77]

Perhaps you are thinking of Daniel . . . although he wrote, Wear out the holy ones.

Cool. (Ek- =set apart, holy. )
May read this later, again.
Daniel 7:25 NRSV - He shall speak words ... - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+7:25&version=NRSV
He shall speak words against the Most High, shall wear out the holy ones of the Most High, and shall attempt to change the sacred seasons and the law; and they shall be given into his power for a time, two times, and half a time.

 

[bbyrd009]

so much for that analogy?

Nice deflection!

is it? werent we discussing the nature of "objective evidence?"
must that mean "seen?"
i dont know

So there are as many different "you's" as there are people who "know" you? Parallel bbyrds.

ah i would say more importantly, the bbyrd i have imagined does not really even exist!
to anyone but myself anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

ONLY ONE.

um, you may interpret No however seems best to you, Joseph
but you might review the Esau story in relation to your present um "beliefs" there fwiw

 

[Joseph77]

um, you may interpret No however seems best to you, Joseph
but you might review the Esau story in relation to your present um "beliefs" there fwiw

non-sequitur. Your posts are not connected ....

 

[bbyrd009]

non-sequitur. Your posts are not connected ....

dont write that in stone just yet imo

Esau was not condemned for eating red stew, but for refusing Israel passage, eh

 

[Joseph77]

dont write that in stone just yet imo

It's /your posts in context/ all washed away in quicksand - unless you have another (unposted or unexplailed so far) statement that is on a true and solid foundation.

 

[FollowHim]

There are simply so many Scriptures that direct us to believe in what God has already done for us, and that we may now rest in Him, and let His life flow through us.

The only impediment that I've really found to the walk in the Spirit is unbelief. Nothing else stands in our way from walking in Him at all times.

This whole idea that being born again puts us at the same level as Israel in the OT, and that we have to by a life of good works attain to rebirth, that we can live with God, this is so antithetical to what I find in the Bible, and in life.

I know what that kind of life is like. If we would only believe what He's said!

It's the difference between a life lived trying to be good, do well, stay faithful, not sin - these are all good things - to try to love others, even when we don't want to, keep ourselves in righteousness . . .

Is that the abundant life?

Or is it the life where we understand that God has Justified us, declared us righteous, that God has recreated us, now we are brand new people, who are righteous and holy. Isn't the abundant life that life where we are always enjoying the love of God in Jesus who is with us, never apart from Him, He is never angry with us, always comforts us, even in chastening, should that be needed.

I know in my life there was a lot that had to happen before I was willing to let go of my cares and "responsibilities", and to receive the rest of God.

Only in that rest comes the life that pleases God. Then we can walk in the works that He laid out for us, because we've rested from our works.

Maybe it's a matter of not wanting to let go of at least a little responsibility, I don't know.

Much love!

"The only impediment that I've really found to the walk in the Spirit is unbelief."

This one statement here blows my mind, really blows my mind. It is claiming if you believe, whatever that is defined as, you can walk in the Spirit.
It reminds me of a crack addict who says to get into heaven just heat this rock and breath in.

So the eternal gap between man and God can be broken by belief. I have never heard a better description of easy believism than this.
Anyone who knows Jesus, has met Him they will know the gap between us and Him is so vast we are just lost and do not know what to do. His words work, they have life, but we neither know why or how. We have a sense that if we spend more time with Him things will get clearer and more distinct, but we are not sure how and why, so we stay.

Maturity comes from entering by the gate, the cross, repentance, faith, commitment, sorrow, pain, faith, hope and love. Putting this into action and learning from scratch how to change, how to react, how to let the Holy Spirit teach and mould the inner man so the outer man can show who Jesus is and how His eternal love can flow to all. Each stumbling step is another step along a long path, each one more sure than the one before, being careful to stay on this narrow path, listening and watching as the Lord leads the way. That is our walk, that is the walk in the Spirit, that is the road of sacrifice, of the altar, of learning to listen, learning to see, learning to feel, learning to care and learning to share this heart of love Jesus has for all.

Now I speak not as someone beginning this path but as someone who has walked and learnt, prayed and loved along its way. I now know its power and its hope, the simplicity and also its definition. The baggage that blinds us is our own sin, the complexity is our defences and hiding from pain, the difficulty is our addictions to compensate for our needs we have locked away, and never let go.

Of course the lost want a quick fix, Jesus does it all, it is finished, everything is resolved, nothing is needed, just rest. But this is just the world dressed in religious language with no victory or reality, and drunkards attempting to kick the door down and pull out saints claiming they are no better or sanctified or holy than any sinner in this world. I mean it cannot be so, because else they have not found Jesus and the door is closed with them on the wrong side. So the more the struggle goes on the more angry the shouts and abuse must be, to prove they are right and how dare these folk believe they are the fulfilment of the promise of the cross.

 

[FollowHim]

Amen

as Jesus said, it is finished,

do we trust him, or do we need to add to what he has already done

It pretty much are these two options, well the third is we do not believe at all

Jesus said "It is finished"
That is a key point, what is finished, wrecks accepted into to heaven, or the power to create new creations in the image of Jesus to walk in His ways and proclaim His life, love and victory over sin and death.

Did Peter, John, James, Paul achieve this very example in their lives, or were they example of sinners enslaved to sin while pointing to the cross as the only hope at death of change and victory?

I got involved in a passion play, and what struck me is how close and small was Jesus and His followers. You could blink and miss them.
What was significant was love, God love, is expected to bear fruit in our hearts, to grow and change us, like an inevitable reality, without God forcing it or separating us from the world and putting us through a special training camp, or demanding we follow any particular structure or direction.

This love, so powerful it has taken over my life, my waking and sleeping moments, that grows and encompasses my thoughts day and night, is God himself. Ironically those who say oh it is the cross that does everything, we show no differences or life, rather our faith points to Jesus because we are bound in sin of the flesh till we die, testify that they do not know or have this love working in them. And those who boast in the sins they commit like a badge of honour disown the very salvation Jesus proclaims and represents. It is like a person discovering the poison they drink each day, continuing to drink it, because now they know its poison, so they are free when they die to give it up. They are just deluding themselves and lying about what they know. The poison still has them completely in its grip, they just hope there is an answer in Jesus when they die.

I wonder at anyone who sings the songs of freedom and victory but neither knows this or has an open loving heart to express the love that drives the songs in the first place.

 

[marks]

Maturity comes from entering by the gate, the cross, repentance, faith, commitment, sorrow, pain, faith, hope and love.

Let me ask you. How do you suppose these things happen if not by faith in Jesus?

A crack addict?? Wow!

Each stumbling step is another step along a long path, each one more sure than the one before, being careful to stay on this narrow path, listening and watching as the Lord leads the way. That is our walk, that is the walk in the Spirit, that is the road of sacrifice, of the altar, of learning to listen, learning to see, learning to feel, learning to care and learning to share this heart of love Jesus has for all.

This is what it looks like, yes! And each step taken in faith in Christ is a step along the path. Falter in faith and you step off the path.

Faith in Christ is what give us hope and joy in the midst of tribulation and suffering. Faith in Christ is how we follow Him wherever He leads, be it into comfort, or pain and suffering, but even still He gives us comfort, by faith in Him.

Even though the world stands against us in active vengeance, even though our flesh be broken, and corrupt, and vile, we stand - if we trust. And in trusting we are not ashamed. We do stand. And standing we walk.

Now I speak not as someone beginning this path but as someone who has walked and learnt, prayed and loved along its way. I now know its power and its hope, the simplicity and also its definition. The baggage that blinds us is our own sin, the complexity is our defences and hiding from pain, the difficulty is our addictions to compensate for our needs we have locked away, and never let go.

I guess you imagine me a novice? No matter. What matters is the Word of God. And it says that we overcome by faith. How many times did Jesus tell people, according to your faith?

The simplicity is in Jesus. As I know He is here with me, and that He loves me, and He is my Good Shepherd, then I open myself to Him, and we have communion, because that is what He wants. It's why He created us.

There is nothing that He does not overcome as we trust in Him.

Are these things quickly or easily learned? I can testify, not always! God gives that faith, sometimes over a long and difficult course, and sometimes in a moment. As you, I know these things are true.

The faith I mean is faith in Jesus and His power in me. Faith that He did exactly what He said, recreated me a new man. Faith that I can put on that new man just as the Bible says. Faith He has shared His nature with me, and I am dead to sin, alive unto God.

Of course the lost want a quick fix, Jesus does it all, it is finished, everything is resolved, nothing is needed, just rest. But this is just the world dressed in religious language with no victory or reality, and drunkards attempting to kick the door down and pull out saints claiming they are no better or sanctified or holy than any sinner in this world. I mean it cannot be so, because else they have not found Jesus and the door is closed with them on the wrong side. So the more the struggle goes on the more angry the shouts and abuse must be, to prove they are right and how dare these folk believe they are the fulfilment of the promise of the cross.

What are you talking about here?

I'm not talking about the drunk ramblings of the lost, I'm talking about the sanctified life of the redeemed.

The Only victory is through faith in Christ. Look to anything else, and you will not find victory. Where is your power if not from God? And how do you live in it if not by faith?

Much love!

 

[FollowHim]

View attachment 9131

I had a dream like this, it was a little worrying.
Each section of myself I showed to others, was a part of me caught in time, who to a degree was a version of the total, but also my projection. So who am I and who was I and who will I be?

Even more worrying is I only saw this small section of others, and their true selves were different.
I committed myself to not compartmentalise and to try and be consistent in all my interactions, so I was who I was inside and out, what was true in the heart was true in the words I spoke.

A part of me suggests this is actually what eternal life is, the heart expressing itself through each day.
And this was Jesus, the almighty our friend, sharing His desire and intention for us, while being the creator of all, vulnerable, caring, loving but also pure holy and righteous, so righteous to oppose Him burns us up to a crisp. But this is not out of choice, it is just the reality of who God is and what happens. Knowledge of good and evil without communion with Him kills us stone dead. And not as a judgement, we kill ourselves, because we cannot be the focus and driving force, it must be the Lord, and everything else will flow.

On this one issue I have wondered since being a teenager. It appears to be a reality of God eternal and created man. Jesus put it in terms of we are branches of the vine, He is the vine, it is His life that flows, we are part of the whole. Part of us asks could this be otherwise, but no, this is the nature of creation and how life works. We are born to parents, we grow, have families, grow old and die. Such fabric of reality is the gift of life, the background that does not change, while we can change how we express this great gift, halleluyah.

 

[Joseph77]

Esau was profane from birth.
Hebrews 12:16 KJV: Lest there be any fornicator, or ...
Hebrews 12:16 KJV: Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
{11} Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. (11) We must shun immorality, and a profane mind, that is, such a mind as does not give God his due honour, which wickedness, how severely God will at length punish, the horrible example of Esau teaches us. Hebrews 12:16 Parallel ...

dont write that in stone just yet imo
Esau was not condemned for eating red stew, but for refusing Israel passage, eh

 

[Nancy]

Jesus said "It is finished"
That is a key point, what is finished, wrecks accepted into to heaven, or the power to create new creations in the image of Jesus to walk in His ways and proclaim His life, love and victory over sin and death.

Did Peter, John, James, Paul achieve this very example in their lives, or were they example of sinners enslaved to sin while pointing to the cross as the only hope at death of change and victory?

I got involved in a passion play, and what struck me is how close and small was Jesus and His followers. You could blink and miss them.
What was significant was love, God love, is expected to bear fruit in our hearts, to grow and change us, like an inevitable reality, without God forcing it or separating us from the world and putting us through a special training camp, or demanding we follow any particular structure or direction.

This love, so powerful it has taken over my life, my waking and sleeping moments, that grows and encompasses my thoughts day and night, is God himself. Ironically those who say oh it is the cross that does everything, we show no differences or life, rather our faith points to Jesus because we are bound in sin of the flesh till we die, testify that they do not know or have this love working in them. And those who boast in the sins they commit like a badge of honour disown the very salvation Jesus proclaims and represents. It is like a person discovering the poison they drink each day, continuing to drink it, because now they know its poison, so they are free when they die to give it up. They are just deluding themselves and lying about what they know. The poison still has them completely in its grip, they just hope there is an answer in Jesus when they die.

I wonder at anyone who sings the songs of freedom and victory but neither knows this or has an open loving heart to express the love that drives the songs in the first place.

"What was significant was love, God love, is expected to bear fruit in our hearts, to grow and change us, like an inevitable reality, without God forcing it or separating us from the world and putting us through a special training camp, or demanding we follow any particular structure or direction."

Change. That's what show's that one is pointed in the right direction, at least with myself. No longer should we want to feed from the filthy troughs of the world...been there and done it way too many times and for way too long.
Funny how we start to realize how futile the cisterns we dig for ourselves, trying to fill them with things of the world and nothing holds...

"This love, so powerful it has taken over my life, my waking and sleeping moments, that grows and encompasses my thoughts day and night, is God himself. "

Awesome. I have come to believe that what you describe here is being "in love with God". Cannot stop thinking about Him and His ways, go to sleep with Him last on your mind and wake to Him with praises on your lips...thoughts always connected to Him. I couldn't understand when people would say "I'm in love with Jesus"...as, all I had as reference was the worldly idea of being "in love"...it actually kind of embarrassed me to hear the phrase, lol. Your paragraph above does kind of sound like being in love as one cannot stop thinking about the one they love, yes?
Thanks, good post!

In His Name!

 

[FollowHim]

Let me ask you. How do you suppose these things happen if not by faith in Jesus?

A crack addict?? Wow!



This is what it looks like, yes! And each step taken in faith in Christ is a step along the path. Falter in faith and you step off the path.

Faith in Christ is what give us hope and joy in the midst of tribulation and suffering. Faith in Christ is how we follow Him wherever He leads, be it into comfort, or pain and suffering, but even still He gives us comfort, by faith in Him.

Even though the world stands against us in active vengeance, even though our flesh be broken, and corrupt, and vile, we stand - if we trust. And in trusting we are not ashamed. We do stand. And standing we walk.



I guess you imagine me a novice? No matter. What matters is the Word of God. And it says that we overcome by faith. How many times did Jesus tell people, according to your faith?

The simplicity is in Jesus. As I know He is here with me, and that He loves me, and He is my Good Shepherd, then I open myself to Him, and we have communion, because that is what He wants. It's why He created us.

There is nothing that He does not overcome as we trust in Him.

Are these things quickly or easily learned? I can testify, not always! God gives that faith, sometimes over a long and difficult course, and sometimes in a moment. As you, I know these things are true.

The faith I mean is faith in Jesus and His power in me. Faith that He did exactly what He said, recreated me a new man. Faith that I can put on that new man just as the Bible says. Faith He has shared His nature with me, and I am dead to sin, alive unto God.



What are you talking about here?

I'm not talking about the drunk ramblings of the lost, I'm talking about the sanctified life of the redeemed.

The Only victory is through faith in Christ. Look to anything else, and you will not find victory. Where is your power if not from God? And how do you live in it if not by faith?

Much love!

I have listened to many new age preachers who use christian language, and along the way say "I am dead to sin"
What are you referring to? Are you convicted of sin, repentant, committed to the walk of love and righteousness in the ways of Jesus?

Have you a testimony of a changed life walking in new birth and new life of purity and faithfulness to Gods path?
Does love govern your decisions and direction or is it a different dynamic of decisions in the flesh against decisions in the Spirit?

Some invent a whole new morality and way of knowing what is right and wrong, not referring to scripture or Jesus's example but only what the Spirit tells them in their hearts.

And certainly some meet exactly my description of their attitude to my walk, and my expression of theology. You may not personally, but I can but reflect what others have taught me they hold dear to, and how they regard me as their enemy, some would say worse than a murderer ( which took me some time to get my head around )

 

[Brakelite]

Perhaps you are thinking of Daniel . . . although he wrote, Wear out the holy ones.

Yes, wearing out the saints of the Most High, but that was in specific relation to the little horn.

 

[Brakelite]

I had a dream like this, it was a little worrying.
Each section of myself I showed to others, was a part of me caught in time, who to a degree was a version of the total, but also my projection. So who am I and who was I and who will I be?

Even more worrying is I only saw this small section of others, and their true selves were different.
I committed myself to not compartmentalise and to try and be consistent in all my interactions, so I was who I was inside and out, what was true in the heart was true in the words I spoke.

A part of me suggests this is actually what eternal life is, the heart expressing itself through each day.
And this was Jesus, the almighty our friend, sharing His desire and intention for us, while being the creator of all, vulnerable, caring, loving but also pure holy and righteous, so righteous to oppose Him burns us up to a crisp. But this is not out of choice, it is just the reality of who God is and what happens. Knowledge of good and evil without communion with Him kills us stone dead. And not as a judgement, we kill ourselves, because we cannot be the focus and driving force, it must be the Lord, and everything else will flow.

On this one issue I have wondered since being a teenager. It appears to be a reality of God eternal and created man. Jesus put it in terms of we are branches of the vine, He is the vine, it is His life that flows, we are part of the whole. Part of us asks could this be otherwise, but no, this is the nature of creation and how life works. We are born to parents, we grow, have families, grow old and die. Such fabric of reality is the gift of life, the background that does not change, while we can change how we express this great gift, halleluyah.

I suspect there are rooms in our lives we don't want anyone to enter because of the junk stored there. Totally surrendering ourselves and opening ourselves up to God is the beginning of healing. He changes only that which we give Him. Transparency is the only solution. But it isn't easy. And we know God doesn't judge, He readily forgives and is gracious and merciful. But what we reveal to Him we would not necessarily reveal to others. Others do judge. Others doubt we have changed. Others doubt our sincerity. Others doubt. God doesn't doubt. He works miracles... Even for crack addicts.