Are the Ecumenical Councils valid?

[Giuliano]

Did you know that American soldiers were not allowed to drink beer in the Middle East? I forget which country...Iraq?

I'm a firm believer that when in Rome you do as the Romans do...you don't expect THEM to become AMERICANS.

As to praying in public...I think it's OK for special occasions...this even happens here for special Christian holidays...the church will have a procession and it's rather nice...although the former Bishop wanted to stop this...there's a new Bishop now and I'm not familiar with HIS beliefs.

Anyway,,,OK. But how about muslims living in Milan...Rome...or any other big city.
5 times a day everything stops,,,they put their carpets down where they find themselves, and they kneel down to pray....causing havoc on sidewalks and streets. They expect others to stop for them, walk around them, etc.

As to Mohammad stating that they should get along with Jews and Christians....
Could you look for the paragraph where this is stated. I don't believe it exists...
I know that we are the Cross wearers and the infidel. The infidel are to be killed.

The only Muslims that get along well with Christians are those that do not follow their faith.

For one thing, he affirmed in Surah 5: that God had given the Land of Promise to Israel. He also accepted the five books of Moses.

Quran in English - Clear and Easy to Read.

Here is a link to a Muslim site that gives the explanation about why Muslims should tolerate Christians and Jews.

Muslims also believe in the Virgin Birth. I can't say I can accept everything Mohammed said about Mary, but he clearly respected her.

Mary in Islam - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
—Quran, sura 3 (Al Imran), ayah 42.
And here is a link from a Muslim site that explains their position.

The Status of the People of the Book in the Quran | About Islam

A Muslim must respect and protect the holy places where the People of the Book worship God, and protect them. For Muslims, these places are precious because in these places, people, whether Jews or Christians, remember God.

In the Quran, the places of worship of the People of the Book, such as monasteries, churches and synagogues, are mentioned as places of worship protected by God.

The trouble is caused by evil men teaching Muslims wrong things. Did you know that one reason Osama bin Ladin was in Afghanistan was because he got banished from Saudi Arabia? He was a troublemaker, and they told him to get out.

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia

He was born in Saudi Arabia and studied at university in the country until 1979, when he joined Mujahideen forces in Pakistan fighting against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. He helped to fund the Mujahideen by funneling arms, money and fighters from the Arab world into Afghanistan, and gained popularity among many Arabs.[12] In 1988, he formed al-Qaeda.[13] He was banished from Saudi Arabia in 1992, and shifted his base to Sudan, until U.S. pressure forced him to leave Sudan in 1996. After establishing a new base in Afghanistan, he declared a war against the United States, initiating a series of bombings and related attacks.

Some of these people who called themselves Muslims were really horrible. Muslims are told not to start fights at mosques. It's okay to defend yourself if someone attacks you; but starting fights in mosque is forbidden. That didn't stop the fanatics in Saudi Arabia from taking over the Grand Mosque in Mecca in 1979. That's considered the holiest mosque in the world; and they desecrated it.

Article here if you're interested: 1979 Grand Mosque seizure - Wikipedia

These people were lunatics. Nothing was holy to them, not churches, not synagogues and not even mosques.

 

[GodsGrace]

For one thing, he affirmed in Surah 5: that God had given the Land of Promise to Israel. He also accepted the five books of Moses.

Quran in English - Clear and Easy to Read.

Here is a link to a Muslim site that gives the explanation about why Muslims should tolerate Christians and Jews.

Muslims also believe in the Virgin Birth. I can't say I can accept everything Mohammed said about Mary, but he clearly respected her.

Mary in Islam - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
—Quran, sura 3 (Al Imran), ayah 42.
And here is a link from a Muslim site that explains their position.

The Status of the People of the Book in the Quran | About Islam

A Muslim must respect and protect the holy places where the People of the Book worship God, and protect them. For Muslims, these places are precious because in these places, people, whether Jews or Christians, remember God.

In the Quran, the places of worship of the People of the Book, such as monasteries, churches and synagogues, are mentioned as places of worship protected by God.

The trouble is caused by evil men teaching Muslims wrong things. Did you know that one reason Osama bin Ladin was in Afghanistan was because he got banished from Saudi Arabia? He was a troublemaker, and they told him to get out.

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia

He was born in Saudi Arabia and studied at university in the country until 1979, when he joined Mujahideen forces in Pakistan fighting against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. He helped to fund the Mujahideen by funneling arms, money and fighters from the Arab world into Afghanistan, and gained popularity among many Arabs.[12] In 1988, he formed al-Qaeda.[13] He was banished from Saudi Arabia in 1992, and shifted his base to Sudan, until U.S. pressure forced him to leave Sudan in 1996. After establishing a new base in Afghanistan, he declared a war against the United States, initiating a series of bombings and related attacks.

Some of these people who called themselves Muslims were really horrible. Muslims are told not to start fights at mosques. It's okay to defend yourself if someone attacks you; but starting fights in mosque is forbidden. That didn't stop the fanatics in Saudi Arabia from taking over the Grand Mosque in Mecca in 1979. That's considered the holiest mosque in the world; and they desecrated it.

Article here if you're interested: 1979 Grand Mosque seizure - Wikipedia

These people were lunatics. Nothing was holy to them, not churches, not synagogues and not even mosques.

I'm not going to derail @Grailhunter 's thread because:

1. This will turn into a deep debate.
2. If you start a thread on it, I'll join in.
3. I'm shocked at what you believe...I don't know anyone that agrees with you.
4. I have had personal experience with Muslims and they DO NOT want to integrate and live peacefully with us.
5. Your link does not post the Quran.
6. I'm currently in a debate with another member and cannot handle two due to time restraints.
7. Muslims hate Christians and have killed MILLIONS of them.
Perhaps you missed the news of the past few years.

 

[Giuliano]

I'm not going to derail @Grailhunter 's thread because:

1. This will turn into a deep debate.
2. If you start a thread on it, I'll join in.
3. I'm shocked at what you believe...I don't know anyone that agrees with you.
4. I have had personal experience with Muslims and they DO NOT want to integrate and live peacefully with us.
5. Your link does not post the Quran.
6. I'm currently in a debate with another member and cannot handle two due to time restraints.
7. Muslims hate Christians and have killed MILLIONS of them.
Perhaps you missed the news of the past few years.

Okay then, but there is one easy to understand verse in the Quran -- Surah Al-Baqarah [2:256]:

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

I've met Muslims too. I liked several of them, others not so much. We have two mosques in the town I live in and there are no problems. It is certainly true though that there are places in the US that aren't like my town and where Muslims have trouble adjusting and some get angry.

There is at least one Muslim member here. He posts in the interfaith section. It might be interesting to see if he'd be interested in the topic.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay then, but there is one easy to understand verse in the Quran -- Surah Al-Baqarah [2:256]:

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

I've met Muslims too. I liked several of them, others not so much. We have two mosques in the town I live in and there are no problems.

There is at least one Muslim member here. He posts in the interfaith section. It might be interesting to see if he'd be interested in the topic.

Tag him and let's confirm what the Quran states about the infidel being US.
Wish I had more time...

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay then, but there is one easy to understand verse in the Quran -- Surah Al-Baqarah [2:256]:

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

I've met Muslims too. I liked several of them, others not so much. We have two mosques in the town I live in and there are no problems.

There is at least one Muslim member here. He posts in the interfaith section. It might be interesting to see if he'd be interested in the topic.

P.S.
I'm not talking about INDIVIDUAL muslims...a have a muslim friend about two blocks away.

I'm talking about muslims in general.

 

[Grailhunter]

P.S.
I'm not talking about INDIVIDUAL muslims...a have a muslim friend about two blocks away.

I'm talking about muslims in general.

And hence the serenade...... God I love the way minds work!

 

[Enoch111]

Perhaps you missed the news of the past few years.

One would need a separate thread to show that Islam and Muslims regard Christians and Jews as infidels who will be consigned to Hell, and killing infidels is a ticket to Paradise.

 

[GodsGrace]

And hence the serenade...... God I love the way minds work!

I should charge you an admission fee.
You have too much fun!

 

[GodsGrace]

One would need a separate thread to show that Islam and Muslims regard Christians and Jews as infidels who will be consigned to Hell, and killing infidels is a ticket to Paradise.

Right.
I did suggest this but I don't have much time right now.
Trying to convince BreadofLife that Pope Francis is changing a DOGMA/DOCTRINE
and not a discipline by allowing persons in continuing MORTAL SIN to receive COMMUNION.

I mean, this should take more than ONE POST!
It's been going on for pages.

 

[Enoch111]

Trying to convince BreadofLife...

BOL will always refuse to accept the truth about his church, so the best thing to do is bow out of that discussion. Even after we post from Catholic sources he says that anyone who criticizes his church is a liar. Which show how seriously deluded he is.

 

[GodsGrace]

BOL will always refuse to accept the truth about his church, so the best thing to do is bow out of that discussion. Even after we post from Catholic sources he says that anyone who criticizes his church is a liar. Which show how seriously deluded he is.

I'm not going to bow out.
First of all I'm tired of being called a liar.
Second I've let him get away with this for too long...
Third HE told me to go study and then have an intelligent discussion with him. I didn't need to study...I happen to know my catholic STUFF for varying reasons. And really well.

So the battle goes on and it could go on for a really long time because I know what I know.

He's living in a delusion, that's for sure.
Time he woke up.

(but thanks for the good advise)

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not going to bow out.
First of all I'm tired of being called a liar.
Second I've let him get away with this for too long...
Third HE told me to go study and then have an intelligent discussion with him. I didn't need to study...I happen to know my catholic STUFF for varying reasons. And really well.

So the battle goes on and it could go on for a really long time because I know what I know.

He's living in a delusion, that's for sure.
Time he woke up.

(but thanks for the good advise)

Hey, I have three more lessons lined up!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey, I have three more lessons lined up!!!

NOT ENOUGH!!!!!

 

[Giuliano]

One would need a separate thread to show that Islam and Muslims regard Christians and Jews as infidels who will be consigned to Hell, and killing infidels is a ticket to Paradise.

You judge without knowing what you judge. You say things that are not true and do not stop to think if it would be wise to bridle the words that you issue. The spirit of accusing others is consuming you. I've known Muslims. I've read the Quran. I know what I'm talking about. You do not. I do not speak idly, I know what I am talking about.

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

I write that not to condemn you but to tell you I fear for you. I would fear to be in your shoes when the Judgement of Heaven is given. I hope you correct yourself.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I hope I am not asked on Judgment Day to be a witness for I would have to tell the truth. You have lodged accusations against others which are not true. Ask yourself if you show the fruit of the Spirit. I can't see it. It can be fixed, of course, so there is no way I can judge you; but I can tell you stand in peril.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do we not all stand in jeopardy every hour? Guard yourself, please.

 

[Philip James]

You confound me, believing the bride and the guests are the same. How can it be?

I thought the Bride was the 144,000 (all of Israel) and the great multitude (of every nation, people, kindred and tongue) before the Throne were the invited guess.

Or are perhaps the 144000 the first fruits and the great multitude the entire harvest? The Bride is indeed Israel (God is not a bigamist), but who is Israel?
She is the cultivated olive tree, made up of all those who are 'Israel according to the flesh' and were not 'cast off' for unbelief and all those of the wild olive that have been grafted in (see Rom 11)

Compare to this when Jesus was talking to his "Jewish" disciples on the mountain:

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The same day, after coming down from the mountain, met a Gentile who had great faith; and Jesus said:

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

well, I'm not going to question Jesus how 'few' becomes 'a great multitude from every race and tongue' , but all things are possible with God.

If the meaning of the white garment is what you say, what does these passages from the Old Testament mean?

Ecclesiastes 9:8 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

Ah , the white garment. Yes, how do we receive it?
It is in baptism that we have our sins washed away, dying with Christ and rising to new life in the Spirit. It is here, at our 'nuptial bath ' that we receive our wedding garment; a pure soul, anointed and perfumed ready to be presented to our Holy Husband without spot or blemish.

And He comes to us in the Eucharist giving Himself to us, and we receiving HIM, truly become 'flesh of HIS flesh' , the two made one.

It is in these two glorious sacraments that Christ gives birth to HIS Church, poured forth from HIS side when HE was pierced on the cross, the water and the blood. (and there are 3 that give witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood)

Now we no longer are of this world, but we remain in this world, pilgrims traveling towards the Glory the Lord has prepared for those who endure to the end...

and while walking through this 'valley of the shadow of death' our feet get muddied and our garment can be soiled and torn..
In the sacrament of reconciliation, Jesus washes our feet and cleanses and mends our garments that we may once more approach HIM, pure as the day we were baptized. Then we can celebrate and renew the great covenant of HIS love, poured out for us. Alleluia!

I won't deny the efficacy of the Eucharist, but it is also possible to receive the Body and Blood of Christ without the visible bread and wine. Let us not limit the Power of Christ to act on behalf of his followers.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus can , of course, welcome whomsoever HE chooses in whatever manner HE chooses to the eternal feast (for who will argue with HIS judgements ?!).

But I know of no other way than that HE gave us through HIS apostles to enter into that Glory, and so I will participate in the banquet that HE has provided through HIS glorious passion, death and resurrection, and I will proclaim HIS glory and invite all and sundry to join us.
The banquet hall doors are open, and the feast is NOW, and all are welcome to enter in..

Now for those who have received a knowledge of this Truth, yet refuse to come, or are to busy to come, or (worse) speak evil of the Eucharist, Hebrews has a stern warning:

We should not stay away from our assembly, as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.


If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins


but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.


Anyone who rejects the law of Moses is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.


Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?


But for those who are humble and broken-hearted, the sick and the lame, the poor and the lost, the slave and the free, the hungry and the lonely HE has this to say:

'Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.'

and as she has always done, The Bride, in union with the Spirit echoes:

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Grailhunter]

You judge without knowing what you judge. You say things that are not true and do not stop to think if it would be wise to bridle the words that you issue. The spirit of accusing others is consuming you. I've known Muslims. I've read the Quran. I know what I'm talking about. You do not. I do not speak idly, I know what I am talking about.

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

I write that not to condemn you but to tell you I fear for you. I would fear to be in your shoes when the Judgement of Heaven is given. I hope you correct yourself.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I hope I am not asked on Judgment Day to be a witness for I would have to tell the truth. You have lodged accusations against others which are not true. Ask yourself if you show the fruit of the Spirit. I can't see it. It can be fixed, of course, so there is no way I can judge you; but I can tell you stand in peril.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Do we not all stand in jeopardy every hour? Guard yourself, please.

Oh my gosh! Are you a betting man? What do you bet this is not going to go well for you. You need to rethink this.
How many scriptures do you think I can come up with that will show you wrong on this? I know, that you know the scriptures I will produce. Smarter than the average bear, you are. So why do this?

 

[Enoch111]

You judge without knowing what you judge.

Did you really want me to quote chapter and verse from the Quran? This is not the thread for that.

And are you blind to the reality of Radical Islam which is solidly based on the teachings of the Quran and Mohammad? Christians have been under attack by Islamists very recently and those are the facts. The hatred of the Arab world and Muslims for the Jews is indisputable. So if you prefer fantasy to reality that is your choice. Islam is at war with the rest of the world and they call it Jihad -- Holy War -- a ticket to Paradise.

I am glad to hear that Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar were barred from Israel. Indeed they should have barred from Congress, if the Republicans had had any intestinal fortitude.

 

[Philip James]

yes, go and work for your food, Roman Pagan usurper, and leave us alone, eh?

Haha, you're cute.

May my Lord, Jesus Christ, fill you with the fire of HIS love and welcome you into HIS arms.

Peace and Love!

 

[Giuliano]

I'm not going to bow out.
First of all I'm tired of being called a liar.
Second I've let him get away with this for too long...
Third HE told me to go study and then have an intelligent discussion with him. I didn't need to study...I happen to know my catholic STUFF for varying reasons. And really well.

So the battle goes on and it could go on for a really long time because I know what I know.

He's living in a delusion, that's for sure.
Time he woke up.

(but thanks for the good advise)

May I ask you to reconsider? There are some times it's best not to answer.

Matthew 27:12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.

If you think you let him get away with it for too long, why allow him to continue to entice you into it?

There are also people who wanted attention and didn't get when they behaved well. Then they learned they could get attention if they misbehaved. You can observe it sometimes in stores, in family gatherings and so on. A child says something politely, and his parents ignore him. He may say it again and tug at them -- only to be pushed away. He can't get their attention by being good, so he descends into bad behavior. That gets their attention.

Some people never learn and go to their graves not knowing how to get attention the right way. They persist in behaving poorly and keep on thinking that's the only way to get attention. I do not know for sure; but when I see this sort of thing in someone, I suspect they had parents who ignored them when they were good. In an odd way, some even seem to enjoy it if you hurl insults back -- maybe it eases their conscience a little or at least they convince themselves it will.

You have complete power to stop it by refusing to be seduced into it again. Why allow others to manipulate you into nonsensical conversations if you want to have sensible ones?

Without my calling anyone a fool, Solomon talks about two different kinds of foolishness. It's easy to make a mistake at first; but if you picked the wrong path, you'll probably find out.

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

It looks to me as if you tried the option two and it didn't work. Why not try option one?

 

[Giuliano]

Did you really want me to quote chapter and verse from the Quran? This is not the thread for that.

And are you blind to the reality of Radical Islam which is solidly based on the teachings of the Quran and Mohammad? Christians have been under attack by Islamists very recently and those are the facts. The hatred of the Arab world and Muslims for the Jews is indisputable. So if you prefer fantasy to reality that is your choice. Islam is at war with the rest of the world and they call it Jihad -- Holy War -- a ticket to Paradise.

I am glad to hear that Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar were barred from Israel. Indeed they should have barred from Congress, if the Republicans had had any intestinal fortitude.

As far as I am concerned, you have shown me you nothing of worth to say. You wish to rail and to condemn. Although I liked to learn something from everyone I meet, you have disappointed me. I have learned nothing from you and have no reason to think I ever could.