Are the Ecumenical Councils valid?

[bbyrd009]

Lost sheep were my people, their shepherds misled them, straggling on the mountains; From mountain to hill they wandered, losing the way to their fold.

Will you continue to wander? Return to HIM and HE will return to you!

Peace and Love!

yes, pls keep putting yourself as superior, here where you are allowed to deflect and divert to your heart's content. Pretend you are not sinning if you like, ok with me

 

[Philip James]

You confound me, believing the bride and the guests are the same. How can it be?

Brother,


Jesus answered them, "Can you make the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them?

But the days will come, and when the bridegroom is taken away from them, then they will fast in those days."

Jesus came to wed Israel as God promised HE would do. That we gentiles have been welcomed into that union is truly astounding and merciful..

You have raised some good questions, but I'm off to work.. I'll address the rest of your post tonight!

Peace be with you!

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, go and work for your food, Roman Pagan usurper, and leave us alone, eh?
Don't come back if you have any sense, as if

Lost sheep were my people, their shepherds misled them, straggling on the mountains; From mountain to hill they wandered, losing the way to their fold.

Will you continue to wander? Return to HIM and HE will return to you!

Peace and Love!

will i continue to wander lol, priceless. Will you ever set a toe on the path, friend? Roaring lions do not have to pay attention or address any points, huh? 200 years of Crusade, but you just havent quite figured it out yet, right? You are perfectly within your "rights" to come here and preach at Christians, and ignore any rebuttals, yes?

 

[bbyrd009]

"your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky"

Isaiah 1:15 Lexicon: "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.

1 Samuel 8:18 Lexicon: "Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day."

 

[justbyfaith]

What church's prayers would you want? What if Muslims outnumbered Christians -- would you want them to force Christians to pray as the Muslims do? If we wouldn't like that, then maybe we shouldn't want to force them to pray as we do.

Muslims can pray as they pray, and Christians will pray as we pray.

The one true God isn't afraid of the prayers of Muslims to their false god.

If anything, it would prove to be a contest to see whose prayers are answered...whether the prayers of Christians to our true God, or the prayers of Muslims to their false god.

I have no doubt that the prayers of Christians would prevail over the prayers of Muslims. Perhaps that is what the devil is afraid of.

 

[Giuliano]

Muslims can pray as they pray, and Christians will pray as we pray.

The one true God isn't afraid of the prayers of Muslims to their false god.

If anything, it would prove to be a contest to see whose prayers are answered...whether the prayers of Christians to our true God, or the prayers of Muslims to their false god.

Let me press you to answer the question. Would you want areas where Muslims are in the majority to be able to force Christian children to hear their prayers or to force them to say them? Anyone can pray anytime even in schools. Maybe not out loud, but they can pray. Do we want a government that forces us to pray or tells us what to pray? I don't.

I have no doubt that the prayers of Christians would prevail over the prayers of Muslims. Perhaps that is what the devil is afraid of.

You do not think that many people prayed to have prayers back in school? Has the devil won because God didn't answer their prayers, or ist perhaps because they asked amiss? They were asking for God to force other people to do something. Do we not all have free will that God gave us? What then if I ask God to take away your right to use your free will?

That is what Pharaoh did when he refused to allow Israel to worship as they wanted. God wasn't demanding Pharaoh change his religion, only that he allow Israel freedom. Pharaoh was an earthly ruler and had no right to use his authority that way. He got destroyed too.

Similarly Haman conspired to restrict religious freedom. He was brought down to destruction also, not because he had the wrong religion but because he wanted to decide religious matters for other people and wipe out the Jews.

 

[justbyfaith]

I believe that if prayer were to be reinstated, that it would have to be within the parameters of religious freedom; otherwise it would be unconstitutional.

Kids would have to be allowed to not pray, to pray to whatever God/god that they choose, and/or to pray in whatever manner they choose.

Iow, Christians cannot be forced to pray in the manner of Muslims; and neither can Muslims be forced to pray in the manner of Christians. Christians cannot be forced to pray to Allah, and Muslims cannot be forced to pray to Jesus nor the Father as Christianity defines Him. And atheists cannot be forced to pray to any God/god during prayer time.

There would simply be a time set aside in which any student can pray to the God/god of his choice (or not pray if they are an atheist). Alternative activities can also be offered to those who do not wish ti pray to any God/god.

You can be sure that such a thing would expose students to other students as to what they believe in; and Christian students would then know who to witness to and also be more informed as to how to do so. Perhaps Christian students would be woken up as to the numbers of their fellow students who do not believe in Christ.

I think that therefore, it would be a good thing overall.

 

[GodsGrace]

At first, it seems like a good thing to have children praying in public schools -- but why would that be needed if our churches were doing their job? It is an indictment of our churches that they are not doing their job if public schools need to do it.

Should Catholic children be taught the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer, or should Protestant children be taught the Catholic version?

What version of the Bible should be used? Catholics and Jews often opened their own schools so they wouldn't have to send their children to schools where a Protestant version was being read.

Who would you want to teach your children (if you have any) to pray? You, clergy from your church, or a school teacher who might not even be a Christian just doing what the school says is part of the job?

I remember praying in school and how I did it. Vain repetition. I didn't mean it, I had it memorized and just recited it. I don't think it did me a bit of good.

Yes. I'm changing my mind and am beginning to agree with you.

But we used to say that when prayer in school stopped...
crime increased.

Is it the job of the church?
Or is what we learn in church supposed to be supported and encouraged?
I used to teach our faith...little good it did if it was not seconded at home.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe that if prayer were to be reinstated, that it would have to be within the parameters of religious freedom; otherwise it would be unconstitutional.

Kids would have to be allowed to not pray, to pray to whatever God/god that they choose, and/or to pray in whatever manner they choose.

Iow, Christians cannot be forced to pray in the manner of Muslims; and neither can Muslims be forced to pray in the manner of Christians. Christians cannot be forced to pray to Allah, and Muslims cannot be forced to pray to Jesus nor the Father as Christianity defines Him. And atheists cannot be forced to pray to any God/god during prayer time.

There would simply be a time set aside in which any student can pray to the God/god of his choice (or not pray if they are an atheist). Alternative activities can also be offered to those who do not wish ti pray to any God/god.

You can be sure that such a thing would expose students to other students as to what they believe in; and Christian students would then know who to witness to and also be more informed as to how to do so. Perhaps Christian students would be woken up as to the numbers of their fellow students who do not believe in Christ.

I think that therefore, it would be a good thing overall.

This is all very true...
except for the fact that the U.S. is a Christian country.
If Muslims can't stand hearing Christians prayers, they shouldn't move
to a Christian country.

 

[Giuliano]

Yes. I'm changing my mind and am beginning to agree with you.

But we used to say that when prayer in school stopped...
crime increased.

It is hard for us to make the right connections. We could also say prayer in school stopped and godless Communism fell. Cause and effect can be hard to discern.

Is it the job of the church?

Yes, and if we see them failing at it, I think we need to pray for them and not against others, asking God to preserve the saints and lead them towards perfection, harboring no grudge or resentment towards those who may oppose us or even abuse us -- but praying also for them.

Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Ha, don't pray against them, pray for them. Ask God for something good. So I pray for God to preserve the saints and to bless those who may oppose me, hoping they will accept that blessing. If they do, I too have been blessed.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Or is what we learn in church supposed to be supported and encouraged?
I used to teach our faith...little good it did if it was not seconded at home.

It would be better if parents seconded things at home, but do not despair. They may grow up wild and crazy; but perhaps one day, when they fall onto hard times as the Prodigal Son did, they will remember things you told them and say, "I wonder if that was right. What I did didn't work too well." The little seeds sown may lie dormant for a while before they get enough water to sprout. The Prodigal Son was not in his right senses. He didn't know what he was doing; he didn't even know who he was.

Luke 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

Then came the trek back, and his father had faith he would be coming back. Of course, he would come back, sooner or later. Where else could he go after he fell into deep despair? Why do I say his father was sure he'd come back?

"But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him." Some people have to sink very low before they're willing to admit they have nowhere else to go. Notice too that the father didn't argue with his son when he wanted to leave. If the son wanted to do things his way, he could go and learn the errors of his way. Sooner or later, he would "come to himself" and remember who he was.

Peter didn't take that long.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Therefore I wouldn't think you failed when trying to teach children the right way. Sometimes it takes time. Some of the work we do isn't finished until after we die. We could be in our graves (or at least our bodies) before the work we started gets finished. The people who were willing to die for Jesus did great works as witnesses for the kingdom.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I wandered off for a while. Later, when I was less rebellious, I remembered things that people had told me a child -- things that helped me years after those people had died. I am sure God will reward them for it. I feel confident that your efforts also some day will bear fruit.

 

[Grailhunter]

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over

 

[Giuliano]

This is all very true...
except for the fact that the U.S. is a Christian country.
If Muslims can't stand hearing Christians prayers, they shouldn't move
to a Christian country.

Uh, that's how some Muslims think. There are Christians in Saudi Arabia, foreigners who need jobs, but there are no churches, at least not officially. I would guess they come together to worship in homes. There are no synagogues for the Jews, and haven't been since they slaughter of the Jews.

There were some churches in Afghanistan before the war. Today there is none. The US went in there and it looked as if they were battling Islam; and the result was that the Muslims there decided to get rid of Christian churches.

Then there are some Muslim countries that allow churches to exist but they aren't allowed to ring any bells.

This kind of Muslim is a bad Muslim since Mohammed said Christians and Jews should be tolerated and allowed to practice their religion. That kind of Muslim is a sad sort of Muslim, not willing to obey what Mohammed wrote in the Quran.

And what do we make of this:

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Surely some praying in public is okay, but praying in secret is better, don't you think?

 

[Grailhunter]

Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

 

[GodsGrace]

Uh, that's how some Muslims think. There are Christians in Saudi Arabia, foreigners who need jobs, but there are no churches, at least not officially. I would guess they come together to worship in homes. There are no synagogues for the Jews, and haven't been since they slaughter of the Jews.

There were some churches in Afghanistan before the war. Today there is none. The US went in there and it looked as if they were battling Islam; and the result was that the Muslims there decided to get rid of Christian churches.

Then there are some Muslim countries that allow churches to exist but they aren't allowed to ring any bells.

This kind of Muslim is a bad Muslim since Mohammed said Christians and Jews should be tolerated and allowed to practice their religion. That kind of Muslim is a sad sort of Muslim, not willing to obey what Mohammed wrote in the Quran.

And what do we make of this:

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Surely some praying in public is okay, but praying in secret is better, don't you think?

Did you know that American soldiers were not allowed to drink beer in the Middle East? I forget which country...Iraq?

I'm a firm believer that when in Rome you do as the Romans do...you don't expect THEM to become AMERICANS.

As to praying in public...I think it's OK for special occasions...this even happens here for special Christian holidays...the church will have a procession and it's rather nice...although the former Bishop wanted to stop this...there's a new Bishop now and I'm not familiar with HIS beliefs.

Anyway,,,OK. But how about muslims living in Milan...Rome...or any other big city.
5 times a day everything stops,,,they put their carpets down where they find themselves, and they kneel down to pray....causing havoc on sidewalks and streets. They expect others to stop for them, walk around them, etc.

As to Mohammad stating that they should get along with Jews and Christians....
Could you look for the paragraph where this is stated. I don't believe it exists...
I know that we are the Cross wearers and the infidel. The infidel are to be killed.

The only Muslims that get along well with Christians are those that do not follow their faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Giuliano
P.S.
Yes, I agree that personal prayer should be private.
You have my husband's name.

 

[Grailhunter]

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the tomb of Christ
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
because everybody knows
everybody knows

 

[Enoch111]

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the tomb of Christ
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
because everybody knows
everybody knows

And exactly what is this supposed to convey? It has no foundation in Scripture. In fact, it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is hard for us to make the right connections. We could also say prayer in school stopped and godless Communism fell. Cause and effect can be hard to discern.

True.

Yes, and if we see them failing at it, I think we need to pray for them and not against others, asking God to preserve the saints and lead them towards perfection, harboring no grudge or resentment towards those who may oppose us or even abuse us -- but praying also for them.

Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Ha, don't pray against them, pray for them. Ask God for something good. So I pray for God to preserve the saints and to bless those who may oppose me, hoping they will accept that blessing. If they do, I too have been blessed.

Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Agreed.

It would be better if parents seconded things at home, but do not despair. They may grow up wild and crazy; but perhaps one day, when they fall onto hard times as the Prodigal Son did, they will remember things you told them and say, "I wonder if that was right. What I did didn't work too well." The little seeds sown may lie dormant for a while before they get enough water to sprout. The Prodigal Son was not in his right senses. He didn't know what he was doing; he didn't even know who he was.

Actually, the catechism should start AT HOME and seconded by the catechist/church...this does not happen these days. Trying to get the parents involved is not easy and most don't care to be involved,,,unless if they have to.
I also agree with all you've said above.
I tried to impress on my kids never to leave Jesus.
Even in times of sin....Don't think they understand this well at this age...but, as you've said, it's words they think about later on.

Luke 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

Then came the trek back, and his father had faith he would be coming back. Of course, he would come back, sooner or later. Where else could he go after he fell into deep despair? Why do I say his father was sure he'd come back?

"But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him." Some people have to sink very low before they're willing to admit they have nowhere else to go. Notice too that the father didn't argue with his son when he wanted to leave. If the son wanted to do things his way, he could go and learn the errors of his way. Sooner or later, he would "come to himself" and remember who he was.

Very good !
This is my favorite parable...so much could be learned from this parable.
I used to ask: Who are YOU in this story?
The answer is that at one time or another we are ALL the characters.

Peter didn't take that long.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Therefore I wouldn't think you failed when trying to teach children the right way. Sometimes it takes time. Some of the work we do isn't finished until after we die. We could be in our graves (or at least our bodies) before the work we started gets finished. The people who were willing to die for Jesus did great works as witnesses for the kingdom.

Your words above made me think of John 6:68..also one of my favorite scriptures.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I wandered off for a while. Later, when I was less rebellious, I remembered things that people had told me a child -- things that helped me years after those people had died. I am sure God will reward them for it. I feel confident that your efforts also some day will bear fruit.

Agreed on all.
I'm happy you came back...not all do.
Speaking about Jesus can only bring good....
Even if only one child becomes saved, it'll have been worth it.

 

[Giuliano]

@Giuliano
P.S.
Yes, I agree that personal prayer should be private.
You have my husband's name.

What a coincidence about the name.

 

[farouk]

True.


Agreed.



Actually, the catechism should start AT HOME and seconded by the catechist/church...this does not happen these days. Trying to get the parents involved is not easy and most don't care to be involved,,,unless if they have to.
I also agree with all you've said above.
I tried to impress on my kids never to leave Jesus.
Even in times of sin....Don't think they understand this well at this age...but, as you've said, it's words they think about later on.


Very good !
This is my favorite parable...so much could be learned from this parable.
I used to ask: Who are YOU in this story?
The answer is that at one time or another we are ALL the characters.


Your words above made me think of John 6:68..also one of my favorite scriptures.


Agreed on all.
I'm happy you came back...not all do.
Speaking about Jesus can only bring good....
Even if only one child becomes saved, it'll have been worth it.

Bible reading at home is so vitally important.