Are the words of Jesus still meant for Christians?

[Eternally Grateful]

This bloviating of yours is tiresome and divisive...it projects your own inflated ego onto the forum with empty accusations that reflect your own dogmatic indoctrination.

Just say no to toxic polarization.

Why don;t you take your own medicine,

don't attack others for doing what you do.. if you don;t like it done to you. don;t do it to others

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"What, or whom, was the Word/Logos before it/he became flesh."

"I Am that I Am"?


"Prior to being made flesh among us.
But, was that Jesus?
I would say, not UNTIL he/it became flesh."


Jesus put on human flesh, but He Himself is eternal, just as His Father has no beginning nor end! That's still WOW to me
Also, He is the Alpha and the Omega...the beginning of time and the end of time. Doesn't mean that Christ Himself is limited by "time" at all, just the creation.

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
Genesis 1:3

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
Genesis 1:6

John 5:30
"I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."
John 5:30

So can this also be a conclusion? That God The Father speaks, and The Son does?

There are other verses too, but this is long enough. These are only my understandings.

Amen

when we think of it. Everything in the word is inspired by God. hence it is all the words of Christ..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good post, thanks.
It is a standard doctrine of the church that Jesus was pre-existent. As I understand it.
Of course, I can't leave well enough alone... - LOL

So I ask, what was his pre-existent purpose before the need for a savior to come to earth?
Was the Father really a father before the Word/Logos/Logic/Reason became flesh? (a son)
Likewise, was the Word/Logos/Logic/Reason a person before it/he became flesh?

why did he become flesh? What purpose was he sacrificed?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would someone even ask the question? What's the point being made here? Why would a bona fide Christian set Paul against Jesus?

Because they do not like what Paul said, Paul destroys their own theology..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Having spent about a dozen years on a site sponsored by a Reformed ministry, I think I understand why the question needs to be asked. As I said earlier, Protestant theology (especially justification by faith) is based primarily on the Pauline writings, and Paul is more concerned about the meaning of Messiah's death and resurrection in the context of Israel's story and Creation's metanarrative. Big picture guy. Only two references to Jesus's actual teaching. As an aside, I suspect he gave his travelling companion Dr. Luke the assignment of researching the details of Jesus's life and teaching. But I'll never be able to verify that this side of Kingdom come.

What I observed on that site was a mindset that, because Jesus intensified certain aspects of Torah ("You have heard it said.... but I say to you...", e.g. it's not enough to not bed a woman other than your wife, you can't even look at her with sexual desire; see Mount, comma, Sermon On), this was interpreted as Jesus making sure we understood that we cannot be justified by keeping Torah. This promotes the concept that says Jesus's teachings are irrelevant; the only thing that matters is the crucifixion. "Shaddup already about counting the cost and denying myself and get up on that cross and atone for my sins, please." Even the Resurrection was just a nice happy ending to the story, but not as important as the Atonement. Blecch. Yeah, I found people really think that way. Jesus's teachings were just another set of "Law" that we don't have to follow. We only have to have "faith", which usually meant "belief in the doctrine of justification by faith".

Me, learned to understand "faith" as "trust". Trust in a person, not a doctrine, though doctrine informs me about the One I must trust and what He wants from me. Relating to Jesus as a person, not just as an event in a metanarrative. Which makes Jesus's teachings important (even if I'm not doing a good job following them).

Did Not paul teach the same thing?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I take that as Jesus treating the law as hearsay.
A very strange way to talk about the law if you are attempting to exalt it. (the law)

Jesus was trying to show the religious that they did not keep the law.

The religious thought that since I did not physically sleep with a woman not my wife. i kept The law and according to the law was righteous.

Jesus not only refuted that notion.; but destroyed. it

In this him and paul were in agreement

 

[St. SteVen]

but if we remove what Jesus did for all men.

and try to replace it with what we think jesus meant when he spoke.

then we fail to get the big picture. and end up falling into the trap of religion.

Isn't it a trap of religion to LIMIT what Jesus did for all of humankind?

Isn't it a trap of religion to LIMIT what Jesus meant when he spoke?

How does this LIMITING give us the BIG picture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Many would. Most won't come right out and say things like...Jesus was only speaking to Jews...or things like that....that what Jesus said was not meant for us today. Things like that...on this very forum.

If we were to go by influence, then far more believers ignore the sayings of Jesus for what they think Paul is saying.

An example is this...What must I do to be saved? Jesus says...obey the commandments. Paul says...you must believe in Jesus.

If someone sees a discrepancy there...which will he do? Both? Will he love God and believe in Jesus AND also obey the commandment to love others???? Or will one be set against the other?

Was Jesus telling us the truth that salvation depends on obeying the commandments?

who are these people that say Jesus words do not apply to us today?

That we should NEVER listen to Jesus words?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As followers of Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles, we must recognize the importance of context in interpreting the Bible. The saying "context is king" emphasizes this crucial aspect of understanding any given text. For instance, when Jesus spoke about the importance of keeping the commandments for salvation, we must consider the immediate audience, the current situation, the Jewish culture, and the background to fully grasp his message. By taking the context into account, we can see that Jesus and Paul share a unified perspective on many issues.

Did Jesus realy say we can be saved by keeping the commandments though

Amen, Context must be used to determine not only what he said but what he meant

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I take that as Jesus treating the law as hearsay.
A very strange way to talk about the law if you are attempting to exalt it. (the law)

Jesus was trying to show the religious that they did not keep the law.

What? The law is the law.
Is thinking about stealing the same as stealing? (according to the law) Nope.
Was adultery in the heart against the law? Nope.

The religious thought that since I did not physically sleep with a woman not my wife. i kept The law and according to the law was righteous.

That was the law.
Jesus was deconstructing the law, not buttressing it. IMHO
Did he keep the Sabbath law?

Jesus not only refuted that notion.; but destroyed. it

Nope.

In this him and paul were in agreement

Seriously? Have you seen this?
I should say, you HAVE seen this, remember?

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If Paul points us to Christ, and Christ says to do things we think we don't have to do, then what was the purpose of Paul pointing us to Christ?

Jesus said “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:45–46.)

If someone or something points us to someone/something else, shouldn't we respond to what that someone/someone is pointing at?

I swear, the gospel is so easy to understand, and yet we are forever throwing up barriers. If there exists a thing we don't understand, we are to keep reading, and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.

Hence why it is the narrow gate.

It is easy.. but sadly many think it is to easy, so it can not be true

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have answered your own question. Is Jesus not the Lord? Is He not the same yesterday, today and always? Who will be judging you? Paul? Or Jesus?

The words of Jesus remain the pillar of our faith. Paul was an usher into the the bigger kingdom picture for all nations. But misunderstanding Paul in order to nullify Jesus' words must be seen as a grave error.

it goes both ways

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Look at the law as a guard rail around tight corners on a road. If you keep to the road, you, personally no longer need the guardrails. The guardrails are there for those who don't keep to the road...but they are still needed.

To say that the guardrails are no longer required in a general way...is foolish. Without them, many will die. The problem was never the law...but our inability to keep them without the help of God by grace to walk in a worthy manner before a holy God.

the problem with this thought is that the guardrail is only needed while you are on the way. Once you arrive, the gardrail is no longer needed.

That is what Paul is trying to show.. Sadly people think the law is the way to get us there. it only leads the way. You have to arrive to get there.

This is what the cross did.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul very specifically made the commandments to circumcise males, keep shabbat, observe the feasts, and eat kosher discretionary for Gentile followers. I suppose that's why people think Paul was antinominian.

where did Paul say this.

did Not paul openly chasten Peter because peter did this?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. Only if I slip off the road do I need the guardrails. Only if I "fall from grace" do I need the law to remind me of my true condition and what God expects. Think of the road as the path of holiness or else the path of righteousness...depending on the level of our walk. The law provides a warning for those who don't, or can't, keep to the road of either grace unto holiness...or uprightness according to righteousness.

Paul is not concerned so much with the common laws of righteousness...because He looks to God to walk in the perfection of Christ...to WIN Christ.

Most of us have NOTHING in common with Paul and His quest. Most are NOT seated with Christ in heaven. So we should be fearful of assuming we are something we are not yet able to understand.

The faith OF Christ...a supernatural faith......not the faith about Christ...a human religious belief.

How about faith IN CHRIST.

As Christ trusted the father. so we trust him?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If that is possible, we don't see it very much. Do you have any ideas on this? Any examples?

The other way round could fill volumes. Peter never says anything about misunderstanding Jesus...either you understand Him or you don't. But Paul on the other hand had such a specific idea about what he was talking about that many confused his message...even in his own day, as Peter states.

I see the book of James as addressing some of the concerns of the other apostles based on how grace can so easily be misunderstood for lawlessness.

Is it possible?

You yourself do it..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you slip off the road...
it's too late for guardrails. You need a tow truck. - LOL

I think you mean God's law, not "the law". (given to Moses)
Check out my topic on the subject. Thanks.

Paul in Galatians 3 spoke of Moses law or the law given to moses by God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People have a hard time understanding Paul since he uses the word "law" to mean like at least three different things.

The law of Moses : Holiness laws based on ceremonial purity. (now superseded through Christ)
The law of God : the ten commandments (Ours to fulfill through Christ in holiness...OR doing as much as a human can do, in righteousness)
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus : The kingdom realm in the Spirit (that most believers no longer know anything about...the devil knows his business)

the law of God in your example is the law of moses.

it is the law Paul spoke of. it is the law which proves we are sinners.. because the law said do not covet. etc etc..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The truth is not understood by those who have been indoctrinated against it...immunized from hearing unto salvation.

I am reposting this from another thread I started to show why the religious ones hate my words. They HATE that God is merciful and judges BOTH with kindness AND severity. Those who oppose His mercy will be judged as harshly as they did others. We will reap as WE have sown.

Being Faithful to God

We can be faithful to God without walking on the level of the Spirit in Zion.


We can pray and meditate on His words while remaining humble and thankful in all things. We can be quick to forgive and ready to help others. We can learn to be patient and have self-control when we learn how weak we can be.

We can learn righteousness given time and practice. We can learn from our past mistakes,

Another aspect of faithfulness is the ability to esteem others as higher than ourselves. This falls under the category of meekness and humility. We can allow for others to be more advanced in spiritual things than ourselves...because we trust in God not ourselves. If and when it is time for us to do as others have done, then God will allow us to enter into a closer walk with Him...when we are ready. Until then we are to be faithful in little.


"He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." Luke 16:10


Most of us will never experienced the higher walk that is IN Christ. However, if we are faithful in what the Lord has given to us, then we will inherit everlasting life.

How many have little...but boast of great things....even attacking the truth that doesn't exalt them... therefore being UNJUST in the little they have? If we are unjust in little...why would God give us more to be unjust with?

If your not saved, not born again.

Non of this matters.,


You have to have faith IN GOD first. before you can be faithful TO God.

we love because God first loved us. Not because we have it within ourselves to love

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL. How typical. I am responding to a carnal religious attack made on a peaceful and edifying thread. It's obvious you are trying to goad me...to accuse me...that's your shtick. Your ego demands such things. But did you know who actually controls that ego of yours?

You came to my thread because I didn't respond to your baiting empty accusation that you linked me to.

Accuse away! I'm speaking the truth. Do what you have always done to the brethren throughout history.

peaceful edifying?

it is peaceful so far I will grant that. but edifying?