Are You Free From The Law?

[Eternally Grateful]

Sounds like just another country Church learning, and not real learning in all of God's Word.
I suppose you've never read what Apostle Paul said here about the law.
1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Our Lord Jesus didn't do away with God's law against murder, rape, thefts, perjury, etc. The whole of Christian society would fall if there were no laws to protect it and God's people. It's one of the things that distinguish the nations of God's people from the pagans who worship idols, etc.!

You really just don't know what you're talking about. And no, I am not Jewish. I am a Protestant Christian, a descendant of French huguenots (the first French Protestants).

now lets talk the bolded part And put it up with this, as paul said.

Gal 3: 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, f]">[f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You appear to be brainwashed by False Doctrine. You reveal yourself to be a Lying Marcion.


Marcionism

Marcionism was an Early Christian dualist belief system that originated in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope in Rome around the year 144.[1]

Marcion was the son of a bishop of Sinope in Pontus. About the middle of the second century (140–155) he traveled to Rome, where he joined the Syrian Gnostic Cerdo.[2]

Marcion believed that Jesus was the savior sent by God, and Paul the Apostle was his chief apostle, but he rejected the Hebrew Bible and the God of Israel. Marcionists believed that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament.

Marcionism - Wikipedia

What Marcion missed was that the God of the Old Testament was actually the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Second Person of the trinity. The Father is an invisible Spirit and no man has seen Him at any time, therefore, Jesus was the YHWH of the Old Testament. Marcion did not see that the Old Testament is full of references and prophecies concerning the Messiah, who turned out to be Jesus Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Given that cannot keep the Law, you have no faith in Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ keeps the Law perfectly.

I don't know what version of the Bible you are using. It must be the Reversed Version!

 

[Cooper]

Sounds like just another country Church learning, and not real learning in all of God's Word.

I suppose you've never read what Apostle Paul said here about the law.

1 Tim 1:8-11

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

Our Lord Jesus didn't do away with God's law against murder, rape, thefts, perjury, etc. The whole of Christian society would fall if there were no laws to protect it and God's people. It's one of the things that distinguish the nations of God's people from the pagans who worship idols, etc.!

You really just don't know what you're talking about. And no, I am not Jewish. I am a Protestant Christian, a descendant of French huguenots (the first French Protestants).

Of course, we need the law for our own protection from others, this will be the civil law as was the Mosaic Law for Jews. So, if we come under the law ourselves, then we need to worry about our own salvation. As it is, at 75 years of age, having tried to live a life pleasing to God, a Christian for over 60 years, the son of an ordained paster and never been in trouble with the law of the land, and after having spent much time in study, then I feel the thing to do is to live a righteous life and not stand in judgment over others, as God is my judge. Thank you and God bless.

"The law is not made for those who do what is right. It is made for those who are against the law and refuse to follow it. The law is for sinners who are against God and all that is pleasing to him. It is for those who have no interest in spiritual things and for those who kill their fathers or mothers or anyone else. It is for those who commit sexual sins, homosexuals, those who sell slaves, those who tell lies, those who don't tell the truth under oath, and those who are against the true teaching of God." (1Ti 1:9-10 ERV)
.

 

[mailmandan]

No one can ever achieve a perfect sinless life here on earth...
This author did an excellent job of explaining scriptures on sin.
Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection? | CARM.org

Amen! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Waiting on him]

Clarify?

"offend" in any , is quite different from "trangress" in any ....

Jesus says "Blessed are those who find no offense in Me" (yet many do stumble over Him).
The truth is a stumbling block to those loving darkness instead of truth,
and they are offended by it, - they are offended by everyone who walks in the LIGHT (JESUS).

In the second part of my post I'm referring to those who are trying to justify themselves by observation of a law given to a people that no longer exists.

 

[Joseph77]

In the second part of my post I'm referring to those who are trying to justify themselves by observation of a law given to a people that no longer exists.

Others have made such a claim often, in many threads. No one I've seen, no one has shown and quoted anyone claiming to justify themselves by observation of a law given to a people that no longer exists.

 

[logabe]

Too much hype on the word Jew.

The actual Greek manuscript word means a 'Judean', one who lives in the land of Judea. Paul is in reality referring to God's concept of Israel, and not to just one certain tribe called Judah.

God's Word about His splitting old Israel into two kingdoms and their history just ain't taught in most Churches today. The majority of my Christian brethren obviously just cannot handle that history, and get mixed up.

Firstly, the name Israel I'm going to talk about here is not in a national sense. I'm not talking about the nation of Israel concept or the land. I'm speaking in the sense of God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ that was ordained from the foundation of the world.

The Salvation Promise name through Christ is actually the word 'Israel'. I'm not speaking of the nation of Israel either; I'm speaking of God's concept for the name 'Israel' that He gave in blessing to Jacob. The name Israel means 'to prevail with God's help'. That's what Jacob did, he prevailed with The Angel of The LORD and received the new name Israel as a blessing (Genesis 32).

So the original meaning of the name Israel was always about God's Promised Salvation first, and He gave it to Jacob to represent it. Do you think that had connection with The New Covenant, The Gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes!

This is why Apostle Paul said in Romans 9 that those on the Promise are 'counted' for the seed of Israel, not those born of the nation of Israel by the flesh. That means to be rightly called Israel, it ultimately depends on one's belief on Christ Jesus per God's Salvation Plan. That's the Promise by Faith first given through Abraham. It continued to Isaac, and then to Jacob.

Thus the name 'Israel' was just a later label which God gave for the Promise by Faith which Abraham believed and God counted to Abraham as righteousness. This is really the idea Apostle Paul was talking about in the Romans 2:28 Scripture.

And then in Genesis 35, God told Jacob that He would make of his seed 'a nation', and 'a company of nations'. We well know about the 'nation' of Israel, but what "company of nations"?

Gen 35:10-11
10 And God said unto him, "Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name": and He called his name Israel.

11 And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins";
KJV

That "company of nations" would later apply to Christ's Church once He was rejected by the Jews in Judea, and The Gospel instead would go to the Gentiles and they would believe. That's us, Christ's Church today, in all lands. We are those "company of nations" in the Promise by Faith first given through Abraham and that then went to Isaac, and then to Jacob who would be re-named ISRAEL.

Thus Christ's Church = spiritual ISRAEL, and it includes many of the literal seed of Jacob too, mainly of the 12 scattered tribes abroad, the ones Apostle James addressed his Epistle to.

Therefore, we should never... make the mistake of thinking Paul meant just the tribe of Judah who are called Jews. What Paul was pointing to is much, much bigger than that.

You are right on the surface, but Paul was speaking of physical circumcision in Romans 2, and he was teaching us
how to be a spiritual Jew. Why? Because we become a citizen of the Kingdom when we believe in the King of the
Kingdom. In other words, we are justified when we believe that Jesus is the Savior of the world, and he died on the
cross for our sins. We are a believer!

But many Jews didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ, so they were disqualified and cast out of the Kingdom, because
they would not accept the New Covenant, and still today, they hold on to the old covenant. In essence, they give up their
citizenship in the Kingdom.

Logabe

 

[Waiting on him]

Others have made such a claim often, in many threads. No one I've seen, no one has shown and quoted anyone claiming to justify themselves by observation of a law given to a people that no longer exists.

Well if Hebrews exist then they have a huge problem. How have they atoned for their sin over the past 2000 years?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

they claim to know or love God

But reality is, they do not know God at all. if they did. they would not even suggest such a thought that anyone has achieved sinless perfection in their lives

 

[Giuliano]

they claim to know or love God

But reality is, they do not know God at all. if they did. they would not even suggest such a thought that anyone has achieved sinless perfection in their lives

I do not claim I am perfect yet myself; but I also do not try to put the blame for my flaws on anyone else. If I sin, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to do it. It was possible for me not to sin. I can't blame other people, the world, the devil or God. I am responsible; and I thank God for giving me more time to repent of sins when I am shown how I have failed.

Whose children are we? Was Jesus joking when he told people to be perfect?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Waiting on him]

I do not claim I am perfect yet myself; but I also do not try to put the blame for my flaws on anyone else. If I sin, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to do it. It was possible for me not to sin. I can't blame other people, the world, the devil or God. I am responsible; and I thank God for giving me more time to repent of sins when I am shown how I have failed.

Whose children are we? Was Jesus joking when he told people to be perfect?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Many object to my opinion on this perfect the Christ is referring too, but in my opinion perfect means mature. As in Hebrews Chapter 6 , Paul says move on to perfection. I believe with the Hebrews that upon belief in Christ and the gifting of the Holy Spirit Hebrews were instantly miraculously matured. There was no sanctification proses for them as it is with Christians today. We have to consider that they were taught the Holy script from the time they could speak.

 

[Giuliano]

Many object to my opinion on this perfect the Christ is referring too, but in my opinion perfect means mature. As in Hebrews Chapter 6 , Paul says move on to perfection. I believe with the Hebrews that upon belief in Christ and the gifting of the Holy Spirit Hebrews were instantly miraculously matured. There was no sanctification proses for them as it is with Christians today. We have to consider that they were taught the Holy script from the time they could speak.

The idea of peace is tied into the idea of being whole since shalom means both in Hebrew. The book of Hebrews confuses me, so I don't know what to say about the idea of them being instantly made perfect.

What I see is that none of is omniscient. We are not aware of all our flaws. When we come to Christ, some urges to sin remain, sins of ignorance, easily forgiven, not counted as sins in another way. I think God wants us to become aware so we can then choose the good. When the Spirit reveals flaws to us, we are being given chances to grow, mature, etc.

For example, if I see something and the thought to steal it crossed my mind, I would say, "Where did that idea come from?" The urge to sin is still there, but I can refuse to cater to it. I can choose the good. God made it possible for me to correct something I couldn't have on my own. The old habits die out. The old urges to do evil die out. We can develop new habits, wanting to do good.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do not claim I am perfect yet myself; but I also do not try to put the blame for my flaws on anyone else. If I sin, I chose to do it. I could have chosen not to do it. It was possible for me not to sin. I can't blame other people, the world, the devil or God. I am responsible; and I thank God for giving me more time to repent of sins when I am shown how I have failed.

Whose children are we? Was Jesus joking when he told people to be perfect?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Amen,, this blame shifting, or refusal to acknowledge our sins is not from God,

it’s rooted in pride,

God resists the proud

 

[Giuliano]

Amen,, this blame shifting, or refusal to acknowledge our sins is not from God,

it’s rooted in pride,

God resists the proud

Yes, the way I see it is that God can remove the urge to sin from us when we are willing to confess it. He can forgive it and cleanse us too.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Waiting on him]

The idea of peace is tied into the idea of being whole since shalom means both in Hebrew. The book of Hebrews confuses me, so I don't know what to say about the idea of them being instantly made perfect.

What I see is that none of is omniscient. We are not aware of all our flaws. When we come to Christ, some urges to sin remain, sins of ignorance, easily forgiven, not counted as sins in another way. I think God wants us to become aware so we can then choose the good. When the Spirit reveals flaws to us, we are being given chances to grow, mature, etc.

For example, if I see something and the thought to steal it crossed my mind, I would say, "Where did that idea come from?" The urge to sin is still there, but I can refuse to cater to it. I can choose the good. God made it possible for me to correct something I couldn't have on my own. The old habits die out. The old urges to do evil die out. We can develop new habits, wanting to do good.

I believe it's hard to understand due to the fact they were under the law we never were.

That's my point its all perspective, in my opinion due to their subjection to it they miraculously received a full revelation of Christ once receiving the Holy Spirit. Christ is the law.

 

[Elihoenai]

yes

if you do this to become saved

once again, the united states did not teach this gospel. that you must be circumcised to be saved

Circumcision is a requirement of the Law, therefore, if you are Circumcised, you are a debtor to do the whole Law.

 

[Elihoenai]

Chapter and verse?

Concerning the Circumcised being a debtor to do the Whole Law, this a well known teaching of Paul, the Apostle of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

 

[Elihoenai]

Galatians 5:2-3
Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

Genesis 17:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[Elihoenai]

The true circumcision is of the heart.

Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

If someone finds circumcising the heart impossible, by all means let him circumcise the male member. If he still wants to offend using his penis, he could cut it all off.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Romans 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


The Circumcision of the Flesh is the Superior Circumcision compared to the Gentile Circumcision of the Heart. A Jew has an advantage over the Gentile, because of his Circumcision.