Are you saved now?

[BreadOfLife]

You're either too deceitful, deluded, indoctrinated, or just incompetent.

Spoke like a guy who keeps getting caught.

 

[DNB]

Spoke like a guy who keeps getting caught.

..by your continuous non-sequiturs? Don't even try to think that I got busted on anything, Mr. delusional.

 

[BreadOfLife]

..by your continuous non-sequiturs? Don't even try to think that I got busted on anything, Mr. delusional.

No "non sequiturs" here.

YOU keep making the asinine claim that the ENTIRE Catholic Church is guilty of the sins of a few of its wicked members.
I simply corrected you by showing you that there ENTIRE Church is not ANY MORE responsible for those individuals than any Protestant sect is for the sins of THEIR pastors and hierarchy. I even listed a few examples.

Once again - your Anti-Catholic hatred has blinded you from the truth.

Just as the Leftists in this country are plagued with "Trump Derangement Syndrome" (TDS) - YOU are YOUR ilk suffer from "Catholic Reckless Agitation Pattern" (CRAP) . . .

 

[DNB]

No "non sequiturs" here.

YOU keep making the asinine claim that the ENTIRE Catholic Church is guilty of the sins of a few of its wicked members.
I simply corrected you by showing you that there ENTIRE Church is not ANY MORE responsible for those individuals than any Protestant sect is for the sins of THEIR pastors and hierarchy. I even listed a few examples.

Once again - your Anti-Catholic hatred has blinded you from the truth.

Just as the Leftists in this country are plagued with "Trump Derangement Syndrome" (TDS) - YOU are YOUR ilk suffer from "Catholic Reckless Agitation Pattern" (CRAP) . . .

The proof is in the pudding for both the Catholics and Trump. Both are nefarious.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

The Catholic debacle is graver, in my view, even than contemporary scandals as reported. I hardly accept any of the human histories but I did glean (albeit carefully) part of a secular history about a year ago and the Catholic author embarrassingly admitted gradual, then finally wholesale mutual concessions with one another, by the church and by Rome during the decades and centuries leading to Constantinople. In my very firm view the Catholic LEADERSHIP is the counterfeit church that is being forecast by the writer of 1 John.

 

[DNB]

The Catholic debacle is graver, in my view, even than contemporary scandals as reported. I hardly accept any of the human histories but I did glean (albeit carefully) part of a secular history about a year ago and the Catholic author embarrassingly admitted gradual, then finally wholesale mutual concessions with one another, by the church and by Rome during the decades and centuries leading to Constantinople. In my very firm view the Catholic LEADERSHIP is the counterfeit church that is being forecast by the writer of 1 John.

Yes, but one does not even need such esoteric information to regard Catholicism as an anti-Christian entity - not all the laity that is, but the history, dogma and hierarchy. To a well versed, and unbiased or un-indoctrinated Bible student, the heresies should be rather blatant, which again, are not based on an isolated or circumstantial charge, but on the infrastructure, policies and dogma.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Well said

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

What hurts everyone, I think more than the obvious "hurts," is the shrewd adulteration of terminology. Here, for example, Rome did take, and seize for its own advantage, a term, "catholic," which really meant, the whole church. Other examples: liberal, pedophilia, and others.

 

[theefaith]

The proof is in the pudding - you fail to heed to the signs, you are only theorizing.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

[theefaith]

Really, many will say that it was those who martyred him that were the heretics, I sure would, each and every one of them.

Since when did Christ order the death of those who didn't believe. The disciples wanting to call fire down on the cities that refused to accept Jesus, Jesus rebuked them (Luke 9:54). Jesus never brought fire down on Capernaum, Sidon or Tyre. Yet those devils that you call apostolic did just that, on countless occasions. You honour and revere demons, theefaith!

Not who did not believe but who teach error! Elijah killed the false prophets of Baal, but the state has the authority to execute justice
Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword invain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The proof is in the pudding for both the Catholics and Trump. Both are nefarious.

REALLY?

Is the "proof in the pudding" for PROTESTANTS??

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups
Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors
Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse


Also, tell me - WHICH one is the correct teaching?

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

 

[DNB]

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

try and stay on topic.

 

[DNB]

Not who did not believe but who teach error! Elijah killed the false prophets of Baal, but the state has the authority to execute justice
Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword invain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Paul continuously had to deal with false teachers and Judaizers, both Paul, Jesus and John warned us accordingly. No one spoke of killing them, but rather, that they would reap their rewards at the End Time.

 

[DNB]

REALLY?

Is the "proof in the pudding" for PROTESTANTS??

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups
Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors
Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse


Also, tell me - WHICH one is the correct teaching?

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

You know very well that I don't hold Protestants in any higher regard than I do Catholics, as far as perfection in their congregations or Doctrine is concerned. I'm probably more Protestant than Catholic in my theology, but I will never associate myself with any Protestant Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You know very well that I don't hold Protestants in any higher regard than I do Catholics, as far as perfection in their congregations or Doctrine is concerned. I'm probably more Protestant than Catholic in my theology, but I will never associate myself with any Protestant Church.

Ummmmmm - you ARE a Protestant.
Unless you are a Catholic or Orthodox Christian - you are a PROTESTANT Christian - IF you're a Christian at all.
A Protestant, by definition is non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian.

Of course - you might belong to one of the quasi-Christian sects such as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses or any of the Trinity-denying sects such as Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, Unitarians, etc. - or any number of "Lone Ranger" believers who have abandoned the Trinity.

 

[DNB]

Ummmmmm - you ARE a Protestant.
Unless you are a Catholic or Orthodox Christian - you are a PROTESTANT Christian - IF you're a Christian at all.
A Protestant, by definition is non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian.

Of course - you might belong to one of the quasi-Christian sects such as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses or any of the Trinity-denying sects such as Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, Unitarians, etc. - or any number of "Lone Ranger" believers who have abandoned the Trinity.

I vehemently denounce the trinity, absolutely despise the doctrine for absolutely everything that it stands for!
Well, maybe now we have a bit more clarity as to which Church that I belong to - Jesus Christ's!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Ummmmmm - you ARE a Protestant.
Unless you are a Catholic or Orthodox Christian - you are a PROTESTANT Christian - IF you're a Christian at all.
A Protestant, by definition is non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christian.

Of course - you might belong to one of the quasi-Christian sects such as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses or any of the Trinity-denying sects such as Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians, Unitarians, etc. - or any number of "Lone Ranger" believers who have abandoned the Trinity.

Quasi- means somewhat. I think the correct term is pseudo-Christian (falsly). I'm not too fond of the term trinity either. There is a Father, a Son and Holy Spirit but the notion, trinity, is of man's imagination.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I vehemently denounce the trinity, absolutely despise the doctrine for absolutely everything that it stands for!
Well, maybe now we have a bit more clarity as to which Church that I belong to - Jesus Christ's!

Thanks you for your clarity and candor. You were right to say that you weren't a Protestant.
True Protestants are Christians.

Now, I know that I'm NOT dealing with a Christian at all - so your arguments are that much more worthless . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Quasi- means somewhat. I think the correct term is pseudo-Christian (falsly). I'm not too fond of the term trinity either. There is a Father, a Son and Holy Spirit but the notion, trinity, is of man's imagination.

Good point.

However, as to your comment that the Trinity is of "man's imagination" - you are wrong. It's 100% Biblical (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4).

If it's just the WORD you object to - there are other words that aren't from Scripture that we use to convey what we believe.
For example - "Incarnation" isn't a Scriptural word - but it conveys the belief in the fact that God became man.
"Bible" isn't even in the Bible - how 'bout that?

 

[theefaith]

The Athanasian Creed!

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith.
For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever.
This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty.
What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.
The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.
Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being.
So there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being.
Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, the Holy Spirit is omnipotent.
Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being.

Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
However, there are not three gods, but one God.
The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord.
However, there as not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are obliged by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person singly to be God and Lord, so too are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.
The Father was not made, nor created, nor generated by anyone.
The Son is not made, nor created, but begotten by the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit is not made, nor created, nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
In this Trinity, there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less. The entire three Persons are coeternal and coequal with one another.
So that in all things, as is has been said above, the Unity is to be worshipped in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity.
He, therefore, who wishes to be saved, must believe thus about the Trinity.

It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man.

As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh.
He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.
Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ.
And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God.
He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person.
As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day.
He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved.

Amen.