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Bartholomew Jones

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Good point.

However, as to your comment that the Trinity is of "man's imagination" - you are wrong. It's 100% Biblical (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4).

If it's just the WORD you object to - there are other words that aren't from Scripture that we use to convey what we believe.
For example - "Incarnation" isn't a Scriptural word - but it conveys the belief in the fact that God became man.
"Bible" isn't even in the Bible - how 'bout that?
I pray because I have a Father-son relationship with God. I came to understand my sonship because Christ shows true sonship and I did choose to follow. God's divine Spirit who Comforts me also keeps me in relationship with my heavenly Father. I don't love some symbolic notion of trinity, nor is it helpful to discover sonship with God or daughterhood. Jesus said, "no one can come to me unless my Father draws him." You may assent to the notion and adore a symbol if you want.
 

Bartholomew Jones

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Faith of our fathers

Which brings to mind the essence of story. Story, that is, household stories were of such significance in the very beginnings. And the devil's efforts to destruct the essence of true story is probably his best "success," the reason why the church essentially denies the true power of God's words. I firmly believe that the stories were incidental to the promises of God as given by men who wandered distances from society just to cry aloud from a hilltop, "YHWH!" (Gen 4:26) in times like these.

What we call prophecies are really just promises, with blessings and curses, which God's people remembered from these stories of the Lord's prophets, which continued by tradition; with rivalries and with intrigue; and which to deaf people, are just dumb stories.
 

BreadOfLife

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I pray because I have a Father-son relationship with God. I came to understand my sonship because Christ shows true sonship and I did choose to follow. God's divine Spirit who Comforts me also keeps me in relationship with my heavenly Father. I don't love some symbolic notion of trinity, nor is it helpful to discover sonship with God or daughterhood. Jesus said, "no one can come to me unless my Father draws him." You may assent to the notion and adore a symbol if you want.
The Trinity isn't a "symbol".
The Trinity is Almighty God manifested in Three distinct Persons, as He is presented in Scripture.

If you think the verses that speak to the reality of the Trinity are just "symbolic" - then you're rejecting the Word of God.
Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4

 

DNB

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Thanks you for your clarity and candor. You were right to say that you weren't a Protestant.
True Protestants are Christians.

Now, I know that I'm NOT dealing with a Christian at all - so your arguments are that much more worthless . . .
Why, because I don't accept your god-man theory, or your (1 + 1 + 1) = 1 nonsense? Or your non-Biblical terminology: incarnation, trinity, hypostatic-union, three-in-one, two-in-one nature, god-man, ... Or your ridiculous soteriology - God sent Himself, in order to raise Himself from the dead, in order to propitiate Himself for our sins, ....
Who in the world are you calling the 'non-Christian', Mr. heretic?
 

BreadOfLife

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Why, because I don't accept your god-man theory, or your (1 + 1 + 1) = 1 nonsense? Or your non-Biblical terminology: incarnation, trinity, hypostatic-union, three-in-one, two-in-one nature, god-man, ... Or your ridiculous soteriology - God sent Himself, in order to raise Himself from the dead, in order to propitiate Himself for our sins, ....
Who in the world are you calling the 'non-Christian', Mr. heretic?
I merely stated that by definition you are NOT a Christian.
You can claim to "believe" in Christ until the COWS come home and STILL not be a Christian.

A Christian is a Baptized Trinitarian follower of Christ. You cannot deny the very nature of God - then claim to "follow" Him.
That would be like claiming to be a naturalized citizen of the United States and rejecting the Constitution . . .
 

DNB

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I merely stated that by definition you are NOT a Christian.
You can claim to "believe" in Christ until the COWS come home and STILL not be a Christian.

A Christian is a Baptized Trinitarian follower of Christ. You cannot deny the very nature of God - then claim to "follow" Him.
That would be like claiming to be a naturalized citizen of the United States and rejecting the Constitution . . .
No, that would be like claiming that you believe in the oblation of Jesus Christ to God, but will only accept it provided that Jesus Christ is God.
Or, like claiming that you are a monotheist, while believing that God is comprised of three distinct and autonomous persons, who are all God.
Is the light bulb beginning to illuminate yet?
Try to keep it analogous.
 

theefaith

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Why, because I don't accept your god-man theory, or your (1 + 1 + 1) = 1 nonsense? Or your non-Biblical terminology: incarnation, trinity, hypostatic-union, three-in-one, two-in-one nature, god-man, ... Or your ridiculous soteriology - God sent Himself, in order to raise Himself from the dead, in order to propitiate Himself for our sins, ....
Who in the world are you calling the 'non-Christian', Mr. heretic?
Don’t forget the unbiblical rapture
 

BreadOfLife

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No, that would be like claiming that you believe in the oblation of Jesus Christ to God, but will only accept it provided that Jesus Christ is God.
Or, like claiming that you are a monotheist, while believing that God is comprised of three distinct and autonomous persons, who are all God.
Is the light bulb beginning to illuminate yet?
Try to keep it analogous.
And yet - you you have FAILED at refuting even ONE Scriptural proof of the Trinity.

Here you go, Einstein - have a field day . . .

The Father is God

Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.

Jesus is God
Isaiah 7:14

All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?

John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."
 

101G

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The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
I have a question, if the term "ONE"... "GOD" translate to ... "Father" according to your doctrine, do not the the term, "GOD", indicate three person according to your doctrine?

so what in the term "God" here in Ephesians 4:6 qualify it to recognize only one of your persons in your Godhead as Father?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

theefaith

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We are three persons yet all of us have one nature? I’m not you, your not me, I’m not him he’s not me etc.

Father, son, Hs 3 persons one divine nature
 
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theefaith

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The most blessed Trinity is a mystery we will never fully understand, though one God in 3 persons uncreated and eternal
 

theefaith

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Matt 17:1
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
 

theefaith

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Are you Morman or JW there the only arians today?
Neither is the one true church found by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors 2000 years ago! No man has authority to start a church! Neither is universal!

Major covenants!

Adam:
(Marriage covenant)

Noah:
(Family covenant)

Abraham:
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic) Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16
 
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theefaith

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One God (nature) Father (person)
Father is God
Son is God
HS is God

father not the son
Father not the Hs

son not the father
Son not the Hs

Hs not the father
Hs not the son

One God (nature) three persons uncreated and eternal
 

theefaith

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The Trinity was define by the authority of the successors of the holy apostles at the council of nicea! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 bind on earth! Acts 2:42
 
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Grams

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Upon belief !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


I never knew this till I went to a bible church and read the bible and we have a

very good Pastor......... who knew that a lot of Catholic from back in my time were not saved......
 

theefaith

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Upon belief !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


I never knew this till I went to a bible church and read the bible and we have a

very good Pastor......... who knew that a lot of Catholic from back in my time were not saved......

where does the Bible say you can read the Bible for yourself and make your own doctrine?

those verses don’t refer to salvation but the redemption accomplished by christ on the cross, justification is thru faith and baptism Mk 16:16 salvation is by faith and works in Christ thru grace
Confess unto salvation, Matt mercy thru being merciful forgiven much cos she loved much Lk 7:47 1 pet 4:8 charity covers a multitude of sins


Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Sanctification: the life of grace, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

DNB

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And yet - you you have FAILED at refuting even ONE Scriptural proof of the Trinity.

Here you go, Einstein - have a field day . . .

T
f the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."
Thank you for the thorough exposition, ...but, for crying out loud, horrible exegesis. Absolutely deplorable. Sorry BOL, that was considerate of you to offer so much 'proof text', but it will be way to taxing to try and refute every single passage. But, I just finished posting this on another thread. Hopefully, this will be sufficient to preclude the need to address any of your mis-interpretated verses.

The most incomprehensible doctrine in all of Christendom, so enigmatic and implausible that even it's leading proponents cannot explain it, that the majority of its adherents claim that one cannot be saved without confessing it as true, has not one explicit or didactic passage in the Bible that teaches it, nor can be found a single term corresponding to any of its creedal nomenclature within the Bible.

The utter redundancy of having three all-powerful persons in the Godhead, when only one is required to create the universe, answer all prayers of all mankind, involve Himself in all manner of intervention, providence and maintenance of the universe and all its inhabitants. Two is not necessary but superfluous, let alone three. What an absolute mockery!

Neither did ever one conversion take place in the New Testament, where a trinitarian formula was invoked in order to confirm or assure the recipient's confession and salvation.

Not one facet of Christian theology can be resolved in either a sensible, judicially sound, or glorifying manner, when employing a trinitarian dynamic to the exposition. The immortal and transcendent God did not die as a man, in order to raise Himself from the dead, so that He may propitiate Himself, in order to expiate humans from His own wrath, in order to exalt Himself to His own right-hand side. Donald Trump could not have come up with something more absurd than this, seriously.

Not one prayer or doxology from any of the most prominent characters in the Bible, those that give us the most definitive attributes of God, ever cited any trinitarian verbiage, or even alluded to a God who was not one in all aspects of His ontology.

I have never seen any other doctrine in all of Christendom, that has reduced rather sound and astute men into babbling fools, as they try to exegete this doctrine. No other doctrine defames God, His Word, His Biblical attestation, His wisdom and justice, the way that this doctrine does. It is the most ignoble, defamatory and heretical doctrine in all of Christendom!
 

BreadOfLife

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I have a question, if the term "ONE"... "GOD" translate to ... "Father" according to your doctrine, do not the the term, "GOD", indicate three person according to your doctrine?

so what in the term "God" here in Ephesians 4:6 qualify it to recognize only one of your persons in your Godhead as Father?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Your horrible grammar aside - you cherry-picked a verse of Scripture to make a point - and completely FAILED.
That's the problem with cherry-picking verses out of context.

Here is the verse in its FULL context:
Eph, 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

This PERFECTLY illustrates the Trinity:
"One Spirit" = The Holy Spirit
"One Lord" = Jesus, the Son
"Father" = The Father
ALL THREE = ONE GOD
.

For the record - I don't "argue" with the Scriptures.
I argue with inept "interpreters" like yourself . . .