As one dies so dies the other

[VictoryinJesus]

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

Furthermore I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice …there is wickedness.

and in the place of righteousness…there is wickedness.

I said to myself concerning the sins of men “God has surely tested them …in order for them to see that they are beasts.”

for the fare of the sons of man and the fate of beasts …is the same.

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,

Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive
…even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

All go to one place
All are dust
All turn to dust again.
​

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

That He might have preeminence
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. —all have the same breath and there is no advantage (preeminence) for man over beast—that every creature shall bow at His name. In heaven and on earth.

And He is the Head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead—that in all things He might have preeminence.
AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,
Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive …even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.​

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

Furthermore I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice …there is wickedness.

and in the place of righteousness…there is wickedness.

I said to myself concerning the sins of men “God has surely tested them …in order for them to see that they are beasts.”

for the fare of the sons of man and the fate of beasts …is the same.

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,

Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive
…even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

All go to one place
All are dust
All turn to dust again.
​

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

That He might have preeminence
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. —all have the same breath and there is no advantage (preeminence) for man over beast—that every creature shall bow at His name. In heaven and on earth.

And He is the Head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead—that in all things He might have preeminence.
AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,
Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive …even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.​

Salvation is eternal. Sin is put under the blood as we are reborn in Christ forever. We will never be slaves to sin or threatened to the 2nd death again.

John 10:28-29
“I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.”

John 4:10 tells us:
“Herein is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son as a propitiation for our sins.”

John 1:12-13
“As many as received Him [the Lord Jesus], to them He [God] gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

For as in Adam all die, (decay)
Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive …even so in Christ shall all be made Alive. (Renewed) 1 Corinthians 15:22

You hide Your face they are dismayed; You take away Your Spirit, they expire …and return (turn back) to their dust.
2 Peter 2:22

You send forth Your Spirit they are created. And You renew the face of the ground. (Imo the ground spoke of renewing is the heart, consider the parable of the ground and the seed.)

Therefore we do not lose heart,
But though our outer man is decaying,
Yet our inner man is being renewed day to day. 2 Corinthians 4:16, You send for your Spirit they are crated. And You renew the face of the ground. 2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. [18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed (transformed, renewed day to day) into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.




​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ecclesiastes 4
Then i retuned (I looked again) at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun.

And behold (I saw) tears of the oppressed and (that) they had no one to comfort [them]; and the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort [them].

So I congratulated the dead who were already dead more than the living who are still living.
But better [off] is the one who never existed, who has not seen the evil activity done under the sun.

I seen that every labour and every skill which is done is the result of rivalry between a man and his neighbor. Striving after the wind…
2 Timothy 2:4-5

 

[Enoch111]

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

If you are deriving your theology from Ecclesiastes you are going to go into error. That is what the cults do.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you are deriving your theology from Ecclesiastes you are going to go into error. That is what the cults do.

it is not an theology but instead I was only reflecting on the hope in…not “as one dies so does the other” but instead “as one is made Alive”.

“As one dies so does the other” doesn’t that at all make you consider: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12

Or: For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: [15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Or: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

I’m not disputing Ecclesiastes isn’t dark and broody…but just like there was no comfort …it reminds me of He sends the comforter.

 

[Enoch111]

Or: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

I'm sure you understand that the word "all" here applies only to those who are "in Christ".

 

[Heart2Soul]

If you are deriving your theology from Ecclesiastes you are going to go into error. That is what the cults do.

Ease up man...it's a Bible Study Forum...not a debate forum.
Discuss what you have been taught and/or learned on your own what Ecclesiastes is saying to you.
Comparing members to that of cult religions looks alot like what the Pharisees and Saduccees did to Jesus....

 

[amadeus]

it is not an theology but instead I was only reflecting on the hope in…not “as one dies so does the other” but instead “as one is made Alive”.

“As one dies so does the other” doesn’t that at all make you consider: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12

Or: For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: [15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Or: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

I’m not disputing Ecclesiastes isn’t dark and broody…but just like there was no comfort …it reminds me of He sends the comforter.

Beasts without advantage! Men without advantage! Who among us admits to having been or still being a beast?

“Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight?” Job 18:3

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” Rev 13:14-18

“So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.” Psalm 73:22

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter." Ecc 4:1

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.
She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city," Prov 9:1-3

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

 

[Matthias]

If you are deriving your theology from Ecclesiastes you are going to go into error. That is what the cults do.

Ecclesiastes is scripture.

We don’t want to derive our theology from scripture = dead giveaway our theology isn’t derived from scripture but elsewhere.

 

[Enoch111]

Ecclesiastes is scripture.

Which needs to be properly interpreted.

 

[Matthias]

Which needs to be properly interpreted.

All scripture needs to be properly interpreted.

If you are deriving your theology from Ecclesiastes you are going to go into error. That is what the cults do.

Sound theology - biblically based theology - is derived from the proper interpretation of scripture, including Ecclesiastes.

My admonition to readers: Derive your theology from Ecclesiastes - and from all scripture.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm sure you understand that the word "all" here applies only to those who are "in Christ".

and isn't it interesting that just as all in Adam so also are all in Christ; that's his point......and if you want to check on that, Romans 5 is unrelentingly explicit. In other words, just are death came to all men because of no choice of their own (in Adam) so life comes to all men through no choice of their own (in Christ)
......and again, just as you are born into this world ie, you were given this life through no choice of your own .....so you are given eternal life through no choice of your own. It's a gift, get it? gift! Sooooo, just as you can refuse the life given you here and terminate it....by your choice, so you can refuse the life given you in Christ.......but you can never say you never had it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

Furthermore I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice …there is wickedness.

and in the place of righteousness…there is wickedness.

I said to myself concerning the sins of men “God has surely tested them …in order for them to see that they are beasts.”

for the fare of the sons of man and the fate of beasts …is the same.

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,

Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive
…even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

All go to one place
All are dust
All turn to dust again.
​

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

That He might have preeminence
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. —all have the same breath and there is no advantage (preeminence) for man over beast—that every creature shall bow at His name. In heaven and on earth.

And He is the Head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead—that in all things He might have preeminence.
AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,
Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive …even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.​

Yes maam, Jesus was sent to be that "other" the ransom 1 Tim 2:6

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Which needs to be properly interpreted.

have you ever paid close attention to the beginning there in Ecclesiastes 3? It is read so often at funerals.

There is an appointed time for everything.
And there is a time for every event under heaven.

a time to give birth and a time to die;

a time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

a time to kill and a time to heal;

a time to tear down and and time to build up.

it seems Paul pulled from Ecclesiastes very often in speaking of seasons. Even comforting them in seasons of heaviness and temptation. Even comforting them when someone they love went away for a season. To me…trying to convey to them it was better “for a season”
so they could receive them back again not as a servant but above a servant “a beloved brother”. He often spoke of the gospel that had been given to him of Christ; not tearing down, but for building up. We read it in Ecclesiastes…there is an appointed time to tear down and an appointed time to build up. Paul spoke on not abusing the power given him in misusing the gospel to tear down but to build up.

not only Paul pulled from Ecclesiastes 3 concerning an appointed time for everything under heaven …(Imo) Jesus Christ did as well, speak on Ecclesiastes, when He told the Pharisees they were hypocrites that could discern the sky …whether a storm, or rain, or clouds…but he asked them “can you not discern this time?” (Paraphrasing) what was that appointed time Jesus Christ spoke of? That they were not able to discern although they could discern the sky? Matthew 16:1-3
The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. [2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Luke 12:54-56 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. [55] And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. [56] Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?


Do you think Paul could discern “a time to build up”? 1 Corinthians 3:6-11

 

[VictoryinJesus]

have you ever paid close attention to the beginning there in Ecclesiastes 3? It is read so often at funerals.

There is an appointed time for everything.
And there is a time for every event under heaven.

a time to give birth and a time to die;

a time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

a time to kill and a time to heal;

a time to tear down and and time to build up.

it seems Paul pulled from Ecclesiastes very often in speaking of seasons. Even comforting them in seasons of heaviness and temptation. Even comforting them when someone they love went away for a season. To me…trying to convey to them it was better “for a season”
so they could receive them back again not as a servant but above a servant “a beloved brother”. He often spoke of the gospel that had been given to him of Christ; not tearing down, but for building up. We read it in Ecclesiastes…there is an appointed time to tear down and an appointed time to build up. Paul spoke on not abusing the power given him in misusing the gospel to tear down but to build up.

not only Paul pulled from Ecclesiastes 3 concerning an appointed time for everything under heaven …(Imo) Jesus Christ did as well, speak on Ecclesiastes, when He told the Pharisees they were hypocrites that could discern the sky …whether a storm, or rain, or clouds…but he asked them “can you not discern this time?” (Paraphrasing) what was that appointed time Jesus Christ spoke of? That they were not able to discern although they could discern the sky? Matthew 16:1-3
The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. [2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Luke 12:54-56 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. [55] And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. [56] Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?


Do you think Paul could discern “a time to build up”? 1 Corinthians 3:6-11 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. [7] So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase. [8] Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. [9] For we are labourers together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building. [10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds thereon. But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Tecarta Bible

to me what Jesus Christ was saying to the Pharisees and Sadducees is that being able to discern the sky whether it is red, or a shower comes, or a south wind blows, or heat …wasn’t the focus but neighbor and Love and Faith in God and Long-suffering and Patience and Hope and Joy…where there are seasons to pay attention to, that comes from God and has nothing to do with the weather but instead “There is an appointed time for everything.
And there is a time for every event under heaven.” 1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes maam, Jesus was sent to be that "other" the ransom 1 Tim 2:6

I don’t know. That confuses me because I’ve also been told He took my place so I don’t have to die. I don’t know if He so much takes our place as He showed, revealed, the way “pick up your cross and follow after Me.” “You must be born again.” ?

it is similar to “He bore our chastisement” we can take that to mean, He bore our chastisement so we don’t have to bear any chastisement. But then there are the verses that Gods chastisement is good, that He teaches and leads and directs …and that a Father who Loves disciplines His children in the way they should go. To me…that He bore our chastisement, that our chastisement was upon Him…He is the High priest, that knows how to help us out from ways we should not go, being taught Himself by the things which He suffered, He is able to Help those suffering.

 

[Enoch111]

it is similar to “He bore our chastisement” we can take that to mean, He bore our chastisement so we don’t have to bear any chastisement. But then there are the verses that Gods chastisement is good, that He teaches and leads and directs …

You are connecting two totally different things. Kindly take some time to carefully study Isaiah 53.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I don’t know. That confuses me because I’ve also been told He took my place so I don’t have to die. I don’t know if He so much takes our place as He showed, revealed, the way “pick up your cross and follow after Me.” “You must be born again.” ?

it is similar to “He bore our chastisement” we can take that to mean, He bore our chastisement so we don’t have to bear any chastisement. But then there are the verses that Gods chastisement is good, that He teaches and leads and directs …and that a Father who Loves disciplines His children in the way they should go. To me…that He bore our chastisement, that our chastisement was upon Him…He is the High priest, that knows how to help us out from ways we should not go, being taught Himself by the things which He suffered, He is able to Help those suffering.

You do understand that applies to those who are granted everlasting life correct? Even his born again apostles died Vicky. I will say this however, we do believe there will be people who will live eternally that never died. Likely this is new to you maam but not hard to understand if you think about it. When Jesus returns he is only going to remove the wicked from the earth, then establish the Kingdom. Those who survive will not be executed and resurrected and being judged as sheep already, they will continue to live actually growing backwards to youth for many of them Ps 37:9-11, 29; 2 Thes 1:6-9; Job 23:25

 

[Davy]

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20

Furthermore I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice …there is wickedness.

and in the place of righteousness…there is wickedness.

I said to myself concerning the sins of men “God has surely tested them …in order for them to see that they are beasts.”

for the fare of the sons of man and the fate of beasts …is the same.

AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,

Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive
…even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

All go to one place
All are dust
All turn to dust again.
​

Indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage (Preeminence) for man over beast, for all is vanity.

That He might have preeminence
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. —all have the same breath and there is no advantage (preeminence) for man over beast—that every creature shall bow at His name. In heaven and on earth.

And He is the Head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead—that in all things He might have preeminence.
AS ONE DIES SO DIES THE OTHER

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die,
Yet as one dies so dies the other
Also: As one is made alive …even so in Christ shall all be made Alive.​

1 Cor 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
KJV

You still have not explained Apostle Paul's meaning of that 1 Corinthians 15:22 verse.

Did Paul mean that as in Adam all die, then all also will be made alive through Christ, excluding the wicked and unbeliever?

or...

Did Paul mean that as in Adam all die, then all also will be made alive through Christ, including... the wicked and unbeliever?

Which one does Paul point to in that 1 Corinthians 15 chapter?