Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

[justbyfaith]

@mjrhealth,

Am I correct in believing that it is your contention that we ought not to look to the Bible for the truth of the Lord?

 

[justbyfaith]

he disciples didnt need the bible to preach the gospel so why do you?? If you know Christ you have the truth and if you have the truth why do you need the bible, Jesus is the truth and in Him there is no lie, are you always going to run to the bible, what happens when the world takes it away, than where will you run, to your church, you are not the only one with this problem

I will answer this when you have answered my question.

 

[mjrhealth]

@mjrhealth,

Am I correct in believing that it is your contention that we ought not to look to the Bible for the truth of the Lord?

The truth is in Christ, why is it that you not want to go to the one who is the truth, are you afraid that you may find out you are wrong.

I am the way the truth and the Life says the Lord, doesnt the bible point you too Him so why is it He is less than the bible, dont you trust Him.

[MKJV] John 5:38
And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He has sent.

and so you search teh scriptures, what part of not believe do you not get. Is your faith in Christ or the bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

In John 5:38, His word is the Bible, and it does indeed abide in me because I do believe on Him whom He has sent.

What I consider is this: that you are taking an offensive position because you know that if you don't, someone will come in with something in the word that you are afraid of and put you on the defensive.

Fact of the matter is, He has magnified His word above all His name (Psalms 138:2).

So whatever verses or passages you are afraid of, I would go to the Lord about them and surrender to Him on the issue that He is trying to deal with you on.

I don't know what that is.

But it is clear to me that there must be something in the word of God (the Bible) that is making a claim on your life and you do not want to make Jesus Lord in that area.

But, if He is not the Lord of all, He is not Lord at all.

So, Repent. Surrender. Submit.

 

[justbyfaith]

he disciples didnt need the bible to preach the gospel so why do you?? If you know Christ you have the truth and if you have the truth why do you need the bible, Jesus is the truth and in Him there is no lie, are you always going to run to the bible, what happens when the world takes it away, than where will you run, to your church, you are not the only one with this problem

When the world takes the Bible away from me I will have the gift of tongues to edify my soul; and also I will have the memory of verses that I have memorized. In that I have laid up extra oil in my vessels, I will have what is sufficient until the Lord returns. For when the world takes away the Bible from the saints, it won't be long in coming. At that point I will not be ministering out the oil that is given to me; I will be saying, "No; lest there be not enough for both me and you. But go to those who sell."

In the meantime, because I am born again, I find comfort in the holy scriptures (2 Corinthians 1:1-11, Romans 15:4) as well as hope.

 

[mjrhealth]

Fact of the matter is, He has magnified His word above all His name (Psalms 138:2).

He did not magnify the bible above His name, and Jesus Christ is the Word of God whom you insist on running from, you even say the bible points you to Him, but you seem to be stuck in the bible, all things where given to Christ, not the bible,

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

 

[Enoch111]

and so you search the scriptures, what part of not believe do you not get. Is your faith in Christ or the bible.

A FALSE DICHOTOMY. As if faith in the Bible undermines faith in Christ or vice versa. Anyone without faith in the Bible could not possibly have faith in Christ.

Why do we see such nonsense on Christian forums????

 

[justbyfaith]

He did not magnify the bible above His name, and Jesus Christ is the Word of God whom you insist on running from, you even say the bible points you to Him, but you seem to be stuck in the bible, all things where given to Christ, not the bible,

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Yes, the word of God (small "w") is the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

and Jesus Christ is the Word of God whom you insist on running from,

I am safe and secure in His arms my friend. I am not running from Him; I have Him in my heart.

 

[mjrhealth]

A FALSE DICHOTOMY. As if faith in the Bible undermines faith in Christ or vice versa. Anyone without faith in the Bible could not possibly have faith in Christ.

Why do we see such nonsense on Christian forums????

Why is that, can the bible save you, this whole forum is filled with lies and deceit and mistruth because people have more faith in the bible than they do God, even to teh point of telling God HE is wrong because the bible says. And teh devil laughs at mens folly.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why is that, can the bible save you,

Yes (Isaiah 55:10-11, 1 Peter 1:23).

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes (Isaiah 55:10-11, 1 Peter 1:23).

Where does it say bible,,,,,,, doesnt does it, salvation is in Christ and His works, are you taking all His glory and giving it to a book,

 

[justbyfaith]

We would have no testimony of Christ and His works apart from the Holy Bible.

 

[RogerDC]

-
The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

How does God see you, if you are born again, and you have His Righteousness?.. = "the born again ARE the Righteousness OF GOD...= In Christ".

The mans, you are....."as Christ IS......so are the BORN AGAIN.....in THIS WORLD"...

So, THAT is how God see's the real you.
The REAL YOU< as GOD sees you always.. is your born again Spirit that is born again INTO SPIRITUAL UNION with God and Christ, that has been perfected by the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.

Look at Hebrews 10:14. "For by one offering GOD hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." That is ALL the Born Again.

And sanctified how?

This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION".
Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT.
You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there. .. Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED.

So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times.
If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You.

So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation".
Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS?

A.) NO.

So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST".
And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence.
THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads .
Its walking in that Knowledge.. as That is God's GRACE. And you walk in that. You live in that...always , as your "mind of Christ", which IS to "walk in the Spirit", as Right Believing.

Saint, as long as you can't SEE WHO YOU ARE , As God has caused you to be, "In Christ".... then you will fling and flail and fail, trying to "Be good" and "do right", and sin and repent.
You will fight sin and you will lose. You will worry about losing your salvation. You will think you have to work to stay saved. You will "walk in the FLESH".
But once you SEE who you truly are as GOD has MADE You to be..through His GRACE...as a "new CREATION in Christ"...then all that useless self effort will stop and you will begin to walk in the Spirit with power and Victory over your flesh.

But you have to SEE IT . You have to Get this LIGHT, to become that perfect Disciple of Christ.
-
-
Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.

Saint....How could the blood of Jesus make you less then perfect, in God's eyes?
Meditate on the question, until God gives you the Light.

So, the REAL YOU <is not your body......understand? Its not your will, and its not your behavior.
The REAL YOU< is the BORN AGAIN You, and that YOU is Made PERFECT.....made so by the Blood Atonement and KEPT so by the Blood Atonement, proven by being Born again.
Were this not true then God would not have you, as He certainly wont take you because of your works...as they are ALL the "filthy rags" of self righteousness.

So, ALWAYS SEE YOURSELF as God sees you.
And following this revelation, you will be able to begin to live that holy life, and grow in Grace.

So when your "Perfect disciple of Christ" is tempted to sin, what should he do - sin or not sin?

 

[RogerDC]

-
The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

How does God see you, if you are born again, and you have His Righteousness?.. = "the born again ARE the Righteousness OF GOD...= In Christ".

The mans, you are....."as Christ IS......so are the BORN AGAIN.....in THIS WORLD"...

So, THAT is how God see's the real you.
The REAL YOU< as GOD sees you always.. is your born again Spirit that is born again INTO SPIRITUAL UNION with God and Christ, that has been perfected by the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.

Look at Hebrews 10:14. "For by one offering GOD hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." That is ALL the Born Again.

And sanctified how?

This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION".
Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT.
You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there. .. Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED.

So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times.
If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You.

So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation".
Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS?

A.) NO.

So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST".
And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence.
THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads .
Its walking in that Knowledge.. as That is God's GRACE. And you walk in that. You live in that...always , as your "mind of Christ", which IS to "walk in the Spirit", as Right Believing.

Saint, as long as you can't SEE WHO YOU ARE , As God has caused you to be, "In Christ".... then you will fling and flail and fail, trying to "Be good" and "do right", and sin and repent.
You will fight sin and you will lose. You will worry about losing your salvation. You will think you have to work to stay saved. You will "walk in the FLESH".
But once you SEE who you truly are as GOD has MADE You to be..through His GRACE...as a "new CREATION in Christ"...then all that useless self effort will stop and you will begin to walk in the Spirit with power and Victory over your flesh.

But you have to SEE IT . You have to Get this LIGHT, to become that perfect Disciple of Christ.
-
-
Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.

Saint....How could the blood of Jesus make you less then perfect, in God's eyes?
Meditate on the question, until God gives you the Light.

So, the REAL YOU <is not your body......understand? Its not your will, and its not your behavior.
The REAL YOU< is the BORN AGAIN You, and that YOU is Made PERFECT.....made so by the Blood Atonement and KEPT so by the Blood Atonement, proven by being Born again.
Were this not true then God would not have you, as He certainly wont take you because of your works...as they are ALL the "filthy rags" of self righteousness.

So, ALWAYS SEE YOURSELF as God sees you.
And following this revelation, you will be able to begin to live that holy life, and grow in Grace.

Why does Paul warns believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of Heaven?

 

[RogerDC]

-
The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

How does God see you, if you are born again, and you have His Righteousness?.. = "the born again ARE the Righteousness OF GOD...= In Christ".

The mans, you are....."as Christ IS......so are the BORN AGAIN.....in THIS WORLD"...

So, THAT is how God see's the real you.
The REAL YOU< as GOD sees you always.. is your born again Spirit that is born again INTO SPIRITUAL UNION with God and Christ, that has been perfected by the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.

Look at Hebrews 10:14. "For by one offering GOD hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." That is ALL the Born Again.

And sanctified how?

This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION".
Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT.
You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there. .. Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED.

So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times.
If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You.

So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation".
Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS?

A.) NO.

So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST".
And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence.
THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads .
Its walking in that Knowledge.. as That is God's GRACE. And you walk in that. You live in that...always , as your "mind of Christ", which IS to "walk in the Spirit", as Right Believing.

Saint, as long as you can't SEE WHO YOU ARE , As God has caused you to be, "In Christ".... then you will fling and flail and fail, trying to "Be good" and "do right", and sin and repent.
You will fight sin and you will lose. You will worry about losing your salvation. You will think you have to work to stay saved. You will "walk in the FLESH".
But once you SEE who you truly are as GOD has MADE You to be..through His GRACE...as a "new CREATION in Christ"...then all that useless self effort will stop and you will begin to walk in the Spirit with power and Victory over your flesh.

But you have to SEE IT . You have to Get this LIGHT, to become that perfect Disciple of Christ.
-
-
Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.

Saint....How could the blood of Jesus make you less then perfect, in God's eyes?
Meditate on the question, until God gives you the Light.

So, the REAL YOU <is not your body......understand? Its not your will, and its not your behavior.
The REAL YOU< is the BORN AGAIN You, and that YOU is Made PERFECT.....made so by the Blood Atonement and KEPT so by the Blood Atonement, proven by being Born again.
Were this not true then God would not have you, as He certainly wont take you because of your works...as they are ALL the "filthy rags" of self righteousness.

So, ALWAYS SEE YOURSELF as God sees you.
And following this revelation, you will be able to begin to live that holy life, and grow in Grace.

Why are the "saints" describes as, not those with just faith, but those who have faith AND keep the commandments of God (Rev 14:12, 12:17)?

 

[RogerDC]

Im only as Righteous as the Blood of God has made me.
How righteous, how HOLY is God's Blood (Jesus on the Cross)?
Do you have any idea?
Well, if you can realize that, then you'll understand that all the Born again, (me included) are exactly that like that, for eternity.
Welcome to Salvation.

If you throw a blanket over an unholy dung heap of wilful sin, it's still an unholy dung heap of wilful sin.

 

[RogerDC]

I'm a OSAS person. And I don't think we should always be falling into sin.

If you already have your ticket into Heaven, why should you not "be falling into sin"? According to your doctrine, you can sin all you like and you will still get to Heaven. So it you are tempted to steal - do it If you are tempted to fornicate or commit adultery - do it. If you are tempted to deceive and lie - do it.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you throw a blanket over an unholy dung heap of wilful sin, it's still an unholy dung heap of wilful sin.

The blood of Jesus doesn't only justify us, or cover over our sin. He also sanctifies, or takes away our sin.

If you already have your ticket into Heaven, why should you not "be falling into sin"? According to your doctrine, you can sin all you like and you will still get to Heaven. So it you are tempted to steal - do it If you are tempted to fornicate or commit adultery - do it. If you are tempted to deceive and lie - do it.

If someone is truly born again, then the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer will restrain him from doing such things.

If someone does not have that restraint, they ought to question as to whether they are truly born again.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why are the "saints" describes as, not those with just faith, but those who have faith AND keep the commandments of God (Rev 14:12, 12:17)?

I have answered this question elsewhere (Spotting the Heretic). #724

But I will say here, that we receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and the love of God through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). This love is the free gift of grace; and is salvation.

The works that stem out of this love, therefore, do not save us in the slightest; but rather are the supernatural outworking of love in the believer's life.

I do not obtain this love by doing some good work somewhere. I can only obtain it by placing my full faith in Jesus and what He did for me on the Cross.

I then do works of love because Jesus has saved me by granting me His love that is shed abroad in my heart.

Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (kjv), and Romans 4:5-6 therefore do stand firm as faithful testimonies.

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;