Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

[Behold]

Why does Paul warns believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of Heaven?

The Kingdom of Heaven is not the same as the Kingdom of God.
So, if a person is born again, they are already IN the Kingdom of God.
"In CHRIST".
To be "in Christ" is to be born again INTO The Kingdom of God, that is now "within you".
We the born again are THE "Temple of God", the "body of Christ".

 

[Behold]

Why are the "saints" describes as, not those with just faith, but those who have faith AND keep the commandments of God (Rev 14:12, 12:17)?

I dont usually deal with "end time" Theology as im a Teaching Evangelist who is a musician.
So, my prime directive, is to reach unbelievers with the Gospel and teach new or "fuzzy" believers how to believe right and get grown up, spiritually.
But, because you asked me, i'll give you a very basic understanding, regarding your verses, so that you can realize that your question is not related to accurate end time understanding.

We, are currently in "the time of the Gentiles'. This is why we are given the Righteousness of God, as "Grace Through Faith"
Paul is our teacher as he is the "Gentile Apostle".
God's Grace, is the "free gift of Salvation"....given to "as many as will Believe".. John 3:16 .... Salvation is a Gift, not earned, and not kept.
Salvation is : "The Gift of Righteousness". This means that God on the Cross took the responsibility of saving us, during the time of the Gentiles.
In other words God Himself took full responsibility to get us into heaven. We give him our faith and God takes it from there. God is Faithful to complete our salvation, Himself. Philippians 1:6
This will end.
This offer of "Grace" and "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its going to end.
The GIFT OFFER is going to stop being offered.
When?
During the Great Trib.
In that time, you have a different setup. You have to believe and you have to endure.
Its a faith + Works.........to be saved and to Stay saved.
Those are your verses.

 

[Behold]

If you throw a blanket over an unholy dung heap of wilful sin, it's still an unholy dung heap of wilful sin.

Jesus became the sin of the world, on the Cross.

See, the shed blood and the Cross are an overpayment.
They dont just pay for all the sin of the born again, they pay for all the sin of the WORLD.

"for God so loved THE WORLD, that HE GAVE, Jesus"..

So, when we are born again, Jesus has become our sin, which qualifies us for God's Righteousness.
We are "made clean", "made righteous".
We dont do this for ourselves......God does this for us, through the Blood of Jesus.

"Without the SHEDDING OF BLOOD, there is no remission of Sin".
"Jesus having obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION FOR US".....

That is God, offering Salvation. Its a GIFT.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is in the dispensation of the times of the Gentiles that Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, and Matthew 10:22 is written and it is for the Gentile believers that these verses are written.

Now, they are not saying that you must strive to endure to the end in order to be saved.

What they are saying is that, if you are truly born again (of the elect), you are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and therefore will not, ever, fall away; but your faith will endure through every trial.

 

[Behold]

Hebrews 3:14,.

Do you ever actually read the verses that you post?

Look at your Hebrews verse...
"""""For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end"""

This verse teaches that if you do something to the END, you are made a partaker of Christ".
IF YOU DO SOMETHING....SELF EFFORT.
Is that GRACE? Is that the GIFT of Salvation?
IT IS NOT.
See, we are ALREADY made a partaker of Christ when we were born again.

So, you need to stay out of Hebrews.
It is still ruining your faith, as you do not understand anything in this epistle.
You said it harmed you before, and it is still doing it.
Ive taught for years and years and years that all heretics live and die in Hebrews, Matthew, and JAMES. And before you told me that Hebrews ruined your confidence in God's Salvation, i had already told you that this epistle destroys people's faith. You can not deal with this epistle unless a strong teacher,= (regarding the Grace of God) leads you through all the spiritual Landminds.

You have no idea that God changes the Plan of Salvation that is in effect as "GRACE without works", in the time of the Gentiles, INTO Faith + works, in the Great Trib.
This is why your verse "if we hold our confidence" is the Sister Verse to another Tribulation Salvation verse..>"if we endure to the END"

See that "end" "end" "end".
Everytime you read that, and its related to salvation, its not talking to the Body of Christ who are redeemed by a GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS< as we do not WORK later, or more, or to the "end" to get it.
We have it already .. "Justification by FAITH"..> The GIFT of Righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

We do not endure unto the end because of self-effort. If we endure to the end, it is because we were truly born again and were sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

You have no idea that God changes the Plan of Salvation that is in effect as "GRACE without works", in the time of the Gentiles, INTO Faith + works, in the Great Trib.

God does not change His plan of salvation from dispensation to dispensation.

In the OT it was by faith (Genesis 15:6). In the NT it is by faith.

In the Great Trib, it will be by faith.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If you already have your ticket into Heaven, why should you not "be falling into sin"? According to your doctrine, you can sin all you like and you will still get to Heaven. So it you are tempted to steal - do it If you are tempted to fornicate or commit adultery - do it. If you are tempted to deceive and lie - do it.

Yes, I do have my "ticket to heaven." If you don't, I would suggest you get one quickly!

The reality is, I'm not in the least tempted to "get away with sin." I know I'm going to feel awful for doing evil--since I have a new nature, why would I want to destroy something beautiful? And even though I'm saved, I'm still going to have to face the reality of my own personal history when all is said and done. Do I really want to look back at "how much I got away with?"

No, I'm motivated by wanting to improve the world, by helping others find Christ, and live in fellowship with Christians forever. Sorry, your view is so warped!

 

[RogerDC]

I have answered this question elsewhere (Spotting the Heretic). #724

But I will say here, that we receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and the love of God through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). This love is the free gift of grace; and is salvation.

The works that stem out of this love, therefore, do not save us in the slightest; but rather are the supernatural outworking of love in the believer's life.

I see. So the "saints" don"t have to keep the commandments of God to be saved - the saints can disobey God and commit whatever sins they like and it doesn't matter - they'll still be saved. What a fascinating doctrine. What a pity the NT doesn't teach it. James says we are not justified by faith alone, but by faith AND works. "Works" is obedience to God's commandments.

I don't obtain this love by doing some good work somewhere. I can only obtain it by placing my full faith in Jesus and what He did for me on the Cross.

God loved you even before you had faith. God loves atheists and even serial killers - doesn't mean they're going to Heaven, though.

I then do works of love because Jesus has saved me by granting me His love that is shed abroad in my heart.

... but you don't have to spread the love around - you can rape children every day of the week and still be saved, should that horror tickle your fancy. According to you, a believer can lead a life of committing the most vile crimes and God will receive him with open arms at the end and reward his monstrous sins with eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (kjv), and Romans 4:5-6 therefore do stand firm as faithful testimonies.

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Little one, the verses you cite here don't say works are irrelevant to salvation - they say works WITHOUT FAITH are irrelevant to salvation. James says we are saved, not by faith alone, but by faith and works. You are confused, so find an adult to explain it all to you.

 

[RogerDC]

The Kingdom of Heaven is not the same as the Kingdom of God.
So, if a person is born again, they are already IN the Kingdom of God.
"In CHRIST".
To be "in Christ" is to be born again INTO The Kingdom of God, that is now "within you".
We the born again are THE "Temple of God", the "body of Christ".

My apologies - Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 actually use the term "the kingdom of God". So let's try again:. If a believers works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Paul warn believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

 

[justbyfaith]

I see. So the "saints" don"t have to keep the commandments of God to be saved - the saints can disobey God and commit whatever sins they like and it doesn't matter - they'll still be saved. What a fascinating doctrine. What a pity the NT doesn't teach it. James says we are not justified by faith alone, but by faith AND works. "Works" is obedience to God's commandments.

The devil is one who seeks to heap condemnation on those who believe in Christ...he is the accuser of the brethren.

Therefore, whatever sins you have committed in your life, you can be certain that he will accuse you of on your day of judgment.

Moses killed a man (and was forgiven). The woman caught in adultery was forgiven by Jesus.

The New Testament does indeed and in fact teach that believers are forgiven through the blood of Jesus Christ.

It is not the fear of condemnation that motivates the true believer to obey the Lord...it is that we love Him because He first loved us...because His love has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost which is given to us.

God loved you even before you had faith. God loves atheists and even serial killers - doesn't mean they're going to Heaven, though.

I wasn't talking about God''s love for me and you as it is directed towards us by God. I was talking about the love of God as it is shed abroad in the heart of the true believer; so that the genuine believer loves others with the love of God.

... but you don't have to spread the love around - you can rape children every day of the week and still be saved, should that horror tickle your fancy. According to you, a believer can lead a life of committing the most vile crimes and God will receive him with open arms at the end and reward his monstrous sins with eternal life.

It is not that I have to spread the love around, but that it is my new nature to spread the love around...and also this love would prevent me from "raping children" as you say. But yes, if it were not for the fact that the one who rapes children demonstrates that he is not saved, the doctrine of grace indicates that if someone who were truly saved (hypothetically) if they were to rape children all day long, would still be saved. Nevertheless the truth of God stands firm....that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new...so there is no possibility that someone who has the love of the Lord in them is going to ever "rape a child".

Little one, the verses you cite here don't say works are irrelevant to salvation - they say works WITHOUT FAITH are irrelevant to salvation. James says we are saved, not by faith alone, but by faith and works.

They do in fact say that works do not save you...whether done in faith or whether they are done in order to earn your salvation or whether they are done for the acclaim or whether they are done for any reason other than gratitude for the salvation that God has already given to you.

They will not appropriate for you favour with God.

Works done not in faith definitely do not save; and works done in faith stem out of a salvation already given...so they also do not save; since salvation has already been accomplished in the one who does good works for the right reasons.

 

[RogerDC]

Yes, I do have my "ticket to heaven."

I don't believe you. Show me your ticket.

The reality is, I'm not in the least tempted to "get away with sin." I know I'm going to feel awful for doing evil--since I have a new nature, why would I want to destroy something beautiful? And even though I'm saved, I'm still going to have to face the reality of my own personal history when all is said and done. Do I really want to look back at "how much I got away with?"

You are either lying or you're deluded - every believer is tempted to sin at some point. Grace does not restore your fallen nature into sinless nature, not in this life, anyhow.

No, I'm motivated by wanting to improve the world, by helping others find Christ, and live in fellowship with Christians forever. Sorry, your view is so warped!

????

 

[justbyfaith]

My apologies - Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 actually use the term "the kingdom of God". So let's try again:. If a believers works are irrelevant to salvation, why does Paul warn believers in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

Abiding and walking in the Spirit does not have anything to do with works; except that good works may result out of walking in the Spirit and abiding.

Abiding and walking in the Spirit are done in faith and are the result of faith. I know that I am preaching to you and that you may not be able to understand what I am preaching.

We bear the fruit of the Spirit as an outflow that comes from being connected to the vine as branches.

It is not works that are being spoken of in Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6; but fruit.

In Galatians 5:16 it is written that if we walk according to the Spirit we will not abide in the works of the flesh. By bearing the fruit of the Spirit we do not walk according to the flesh. And we bear the fruit of the Spirit through faith in Jesus.

It is relationship; not religion, that saves us.

 

[RogerDC]

That is God, offering Salvation. Its a GIFT

Salvation is conditional, so how can it be a gift? If you offer someone a gift, but then demand something for that "gift", it is no longer a gift, but a reward. Salvation is a reward, as scripture says. And must make yourself "worthy" of that reward (Rev 3:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

Salvation is conditional, so how can it be a gift? If you offer someone a gift, but then demand something for that "gift", it is no longer a gift, but a reward. Salvation is a reward, as scripture says. And must make yourself "worthy" of that reward (Rev 3:4).

No; salvation is a free gift (Romans 5:15-19, Romans 6:23).

 

[RogerDC]

".
To be "in Christ" is to be born again INTO The Kingdom of God, that is now "within you

To be "in Christ" is to obey "his commandments". So says 1John 2:3-5.

If you are not "in Christ" you will not be saved, so salvation depends on obeying "his commandments", just as James 2:24-26 says and as Paul says (Rom 6, Gal 5, 1Cor 6).

 

[justbyfaith]

To be "in Christ" is to obey "his commandments". So says 1John 2:3-5.

If you are not "in Christ" you will not be saved, so salvation depends on obeying "his commandments", just as James 2:24-26 says and as Paul says (Rom 6, Gal 5, 1Cor 6).

You have it backwards. Salvation is not dependent on keeping His commandments; but keeping His commandments (in the proper manner) is dependent on salvation.

A man is regenerated and renewed, not by works of righteousness which he has done (Titus 3:5 (kjv)).

Because he has been regenerated and renewed, you can be sure that the love of God is shed abroad in his heart (Romans 5:5); and that this love will not be in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

He has been given the "gift of righteousness" (Romans 5:17). And this righteousness cannot be anything but practical (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6). However, it is given to him as a free gift (Romans 5:15-19, Romans 6:23).

Because I have received this gift, I walk in practical righteousness.

I do not obtain this righteousness by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; or by trying to keep a requirement; or through law-keeping.

It is like this: I have received the Holy Spirit through faith (Galatians 3:14); so now I bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23). I cannot violate any just law as long as I bear the fruit of the Spirit.

Thus, there is a righteousness of God apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

Feel free to look up the verses in their context.

 

[RogerDC]

No; salvation is a free gift (Romans 5:15-19, Romans 6:23).

Romans 5:15-19 refers to what Jesus did on the Cross, which is a free gift because it is completely unconditional - even atheists have been redeemed by the sacrifice of Jesus. As soon as you are conceived in your mothers womb, you are redeemed by the Cross.

As for Romans 6:23, I don't understand why Paul refers to eternal life as a "free gift" , esp just after explaining to believers that the consequences of their disoebience is "death", and that the consequences of obedience is "eternal life". He is talking about curse or reward, depending on what a believer does.

So how can eternal life be "free gift" if it is conditional? Another condition of salvation is faith in Christ - no faith, no salvation - how is that a "free gift"?

 

[RogerDC]

During the Great Trib.
In that time, you have a different setup. You have to believe and you have to endure.
Its a faith + Works.........to be saved and to Stay saved

Lame as. Believers must always "endure" and remain faithful, not matter what point in history they find themselves.

Little one, the saints keep God's commandments (Rev 12:17, 14:12) because it is only by faith and works that believers are justified (James 2:24) and it is by keeping God's commandments that believes can be "in Christ" (1John 2:3-5).

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 5:15-19 refers to what Jesus did on the Cross, which is a free gift because it is completely unconditional - even atheists have been redeemed by the sacrifice of Jesus. As soon as you are conceived in your mothers womb, you are redeemed by the Cross.

That is untrue. For we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2).

As for Romans 6:23, I don't understand why Paul refers to eternal life as a "gift" , esp after he explains to believers that the consequences of their disoebience is "death", and that the consequences of obedience is "eternal life". So he is talking about curse or reward, depending on what a believer does. So how can eternal life be "free gift" if it is conditional? Another condition of salvation is faith in Christ - no faith, no salvation - how is that a "free gift"?

In Romans 6:22, it should be clear that in context, it is given as a free gift that the man who believes is set free from the power of sin; as an aspect of the "gift of righteousness" (Romans 5:17).

Paul is also speaking in human terms because of human misunderstanding, in this passage, concerning how a man who is set free is by default a slave of righteousness. He is speaking in human terms because of the weakness fo your flesh.

The one who is truly redeemed is not a slave, but a son (Galatians 4:5-7).

But the person who has not been redeemed does not see obedience to righteousness as a voluntary endeavor; he or she sees it as slavery rather than sonship.

When you come over to the other side and have real, genuine faith in Jesus Christ; where you know that you know that you know that you are saved: your obedience is definitely the result of gratitude as well as family relationship rather than out of obligation and/or a slave mentality.

But if you are going to surrender so that you can come to a place of being a son in Christ, you need to see it as a slave situation. Only by surrendering to righteousness can you cease to be a slave of sin. But if you get redeemed, your motivation for righteousness will not be as that of a slave but as that of a son; because you love your heavenly Father over that He has redeemed you in sending His only begotten Son to die for you in order that you might be secure in Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

because it is only by faith and works that believers are justified (James 2:24)

Believers are justified by works in the sight of men (Romans 4:2); before God, who sees the invisible (1 Samuel 16:7) a man is justified by faith apart from works (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Ephesians 2:8-9).

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

and it is by keeping God's commandments that believes can be "in Christ" (1John 2:3-5).

We obey God's commandments because we are in Christ; not in order to be in Christ.

We enter into Christ through faith. It is as simple as John 3:16. John 1:12. Romans 10:13.