Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

[Behold]

So your saying, when James 2:21 says Abraham?

Abraham was justified by faith.
Abraham is the father of our FAITH, not the father of our Works.

Romans 3:28 "justified by Faith" NOT by works.
Romans 4:9 ""we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.""

Let me help you.
All Heretics live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew.

 

[Behold]

You've misinterpreted Romans 4:2. It is referring to works ALONE - ie, works done without faith. That is make clear in the previous verse - "according to the flesh" - works done "according to the flesh". So that passage is simply saying works done without faith only impress men, not God, because without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6).

Romans 4 is not saying works done WITH FAITH don't please God. On the contrary, if you read your Bible, you will learn that God not only DEMANDS good works from believers, he REWARDS good works! So your theology is way off and flawed at a fundamental level.

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God"

God only accepts FAITH to save you... "Justified by Faith".
Works do not please God.
Faith pleases God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let me help you.
All Heretics live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew.

Most assuredly, these books are not inspired of the Lord and are not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

Better check this statement by the word of God, 2 Timothy 3:16.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God"

God only accepts FAITH to save you... "Justified by Faith".
Works do not please God.
Faith pleases God.

But that verse is out of Hebrews.

It appears that you have broken your own rule.

 

[RogerDC]

Works do not please God.
Faith pleases God.

Hilarious. So obeying Jesus' commandment to "love one another" does not please God. Jesus also said, "If you love me you will obey my commandments" (John 14:15). But you say, "No, Jesus, you're wrong - obeying the commandments does not please God."

 

[justbyfaith]

I will say to you (for I am not @Behold) that works do in fact please God.

They just don't save a man (Ephesians 2:9 and context).

 

[RogerDC]

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God"

God only accepts FAITH to save you... "Justified by Faith".

No, that is not what Heb 11:6 implies - it does not imply that faith ALONE pleases God and that faith ALONE saves you. You're reading something into the text that isn't there.

And "Justified by Faith" doesn't imply salvation through faith ALONE. James says we are justified by works, but that doesn't imply we are saved by works ALONE.​

Whatever you do, don't give up your day-job and become a lawyer - you'd be absolutely hopeless!

 

[RogerDC]

Abraham was justified by faith.

James 2:21 says Abraham was justified by his works - please explain.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 4:5-6 declares that we are justified by faith apart from works...please explain.

 

[justbyfaith]

James 2:21 says Abraham was justified by his works - please explain.

Justified before man because of works (see Romans 4:2).

 

[RogerDC]

Romans 3:28 "justified by Faith" NOT by works.
Romans 4:9 ""we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.""

Neither of these verses imply salvation by faith alone.

All Heretics live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew.

What does that mean?

All Heretics live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew.

Paul preaches salvation by faith and works in Romans, Galatians and 1Cor 6. 1John also preaches salvation by faith and works; as does Revelation. Are you going to dismiss those books too? ​

 

[justbyfaith]

Neither of these verses imply salvation by faith alone.

What does that mean?

Paul preaches salvation by faith and works in Romans, Galatians and 1Cor 6. 1John also preaches salvation by faith and works; as does Revelation. Are you going to dismiss those books too? ​

I think that you are misinterpreting what is written in those books because you are not taking certain scriptures at face value (such as Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), and Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[justbyfaith]

I have explained it many times and it is not tedious for me to do so again; but for you it is safe.

We receive the Holy Spirit by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone (Galatians 3:14).

And the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). This love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18); and it is also the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Again, we receive the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) alone.

And the fruit of the Spirit is love; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23). Therefore, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we will not behave in violation to any law.

Thus, there is a righteousness of God for the believer that is apart from the law; which is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

It is not obtained by an attempt to obey a set of do's and don'ts; it is obtained through being connected to the vine (Jesus Christ) through faith in Jesus Christ; and thereby bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

Not by self-effort; but by simply bearing the righteousness of God as fruit.

 

[RogerDC]

So, you're saying, also, that Abraham found according to the flesh that he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.

What? No! “according to the flesh” in Romans 4:2 refers to man without God and faith - so it is saying, IF Abraham had no faith and was acting "according to the flesh" alone, his works would impress only men, not God.
The same analogy is used by Paul in Gal 3:2-3, where “faith” is called “Spirit” and (useless) “works” are called “the flesh”.

”as pertaining to the flesh” in verse 1 is referring Abraham as our father.

This is so clueless it’s embarrassing.

Sound logic.

Claiming that Abraham’s obedience TO GOD “justified” him before men and NOT BEFORE GOD is hardly sound logic - it is in fact the logic of a dunce.

Do you consider that Abraham was justified (even before God) because he offered up his son? If so, then he is justified for that reason in your eyes....and you are a man.

Comedy gold. What is the point of Abraham (supposedly) being “justified” by men who lived thousands of years after he died?

By the way, how do men “justify” Abraham? What does that even mean?

There is no need to demonstrate our faith to God; because He already sees our faith

In that case, why did God TEST Abraham’s faith by commanding him to sacrifice his son Isaac?
”By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac” (Heb 11:17)
”After these things, God tested Abraham …” (Genesis 22:1-12).

God tests our hearts and our faith, as these scriptures imply:
”now for a little while you may have to suffer various trials, so that the genuineness of your faith … is tested by fire (1Peter1:6-7)

1Thess 2:4 says God “tests our hearts”

”Blessed be the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love Him” (James 1:12)

”Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested … Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Rev 2:10).

what works did the thief on the cross do that demonstrated his faith to God; that completed his faith?

He defended Jesus when Jesus was mocked by the other criminal on the cross. He also confessed to his sinfulness and publicly announced his faith in Jesus by asking Jesus to save him on the Last Day (a public confession of faith is a work).

Stop trusting that you are going to save yourself apart from such a confession by doing good works....such works are as filthy rags and will not be accepted before God (Isaiah 64:6).

Isaiah 64:6 refers to those faithless Israelites who abandoned Yahweh and worshipped false gods (v.7) - their good works were useless because without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6). Furthermore, verse 5 says, “You (God) meets (approves of) him who works righteousness and remember you (God) in your ways” - ie, those who are faithful to God and do the righteous works of the Law - faith and works.

 

[RogerDC]

Paul said that if you fall from Grace you are back in the "FLESH">
In other words, if you leave faith in Christ, and become a self savor like justbyfaith, who is trying to keep yourself out of hell, and gain for yourself entrance into heaven, by DOING STUFF....= works, enduring, abiding, commandments. LIFESTYLE... etc...>then your faith is Christ is gone and your faith in SELF EFFORT has become your real faith, and when you become that, you are in the "flesh". = Legalist.
If you take it farther into your self righteousness, you become a total heretic., as related to "falling from Grace".

You’ve still got it wrong. In Gal 3, Paul is talking “falling from grace” by putting faith in the rituals of Mosaic Law, such as circumcision. He is not referring to the works of righteousness that justify and save us (James 2:24) and without which faith is “dead” (James 2:26) and without which “no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).

Galatians 1:8 then becomes what you are, as you will end up teaching that its .. Faith + Works = Salvation.

Nothing wrong with teaching the truth.

Which is the same as......The Cross + Works
Both of these are the gospel of works, = Galatians 1:8
Both of these are as Jude defined them, as...>"the error of Cain"

That’s funny … in my Bible, there is nothing at all about “a gospel of works” in either Gal 1:8 or Jude.
No one should trust a word you say.

 

[justbyfaith]

Claiming that Abraham’s obedience TO GOD “justified” him before men and NOT BEFORE GOD is hardly sound logic - it is in fact the logic of a dunce.

Abraham's work may have justified him before God....however you should also realize that Abraham was justified by his faith alone all the way back in Genesis 15:6...it is written that God counted his faith to him at that time as righteousness.

In that case, why did God TEST Abraham’s faith by commanding him to sacrifice his son Isaac?

Perhaps, so that Abraham (and others. for God would set forth Abraham as an example) would know that his faith was genuine. Because God, being omniscient, already knew that his faith was genuine; and had counted Abraham's faith alone as being righteousness some 20-40 years before in Genesis 15:6.

(a public confession of faith is a work).

That cannot be; because works do not save (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 4:5-6) and yet confession of Jesus Christ before men results in Him confessing us before the Father, which is salvation.

Therefore a confession of faith is not a work; because works do not save and confessing Jesus before men results in salvation..

 

[justbyfaith]

This is so clueless it’s embarrassing.

Your interpretation is clueless.

 

[justbyfaith]

Isaiah 64:6 refers to all who seek to be righteous through their keeping of the law / works / obedience / performance.

Because apart from Christ, they do so in their own strength; and in this they do not have the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9); which alone can be identified as fine linen, clean and white (Revelation 19:8 (kjv).

The only righteousness that counts is the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9, Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:19-20, etc.).

This is the righteousness that cleans the inside of the cup and platter.

Whereas the righteousness which comes from the law / works / obedience / performance is merely outward; and does not establish a righteous change on the inside of the individual.

 

[justbyfaith]

He is not referring to the works of righteousness that justify and save us (James 2:24) and without which faith is “dead” (James 2:26) and without which “no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14).

Consider:

Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I want you to really take the time to read the verses above.

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s funny … in my Bible, there is nothing at all about “a gospel of works” in Gal 1:8

The entire epistle of Paul to the Galatians is all about the gospel that Paul preached....salvation that had nothing to do with outward righteousness but which was through faith on the inside of a man. See Galatians 2:16, for example. Paul preached that salvation could not be achieved through the works of the law / obedience / performance. And to preach contrary to this gospel of Paul is to preach another gospel (spoken of in Galatians 1:6-9).

So, Galatians 1:6-9, when it speaks of a false gospel, is speaking of a gospel that is contrary to what, in context, Paul would be preaching in that book/epistle.