Believers need to understand the Truth

[atpollard]

forgot already huh
m pollard i have posted with like 150 ppl today, ok
and i still recall how our last attempt at a convo ended

The details I have forgotten, but the frustration I feel after each of your “communications” with me is indelibly etched into my memory. “Conversations with you are never fun” is what I remember clearly.

And it is not that we disagree. I disagree with a lot of people. The problem with talking with you is that I can never quite figure out what the hell we are talking about ... like “am I naked”? WTF.

 

[Enoch111]

The problem with talking with you is that I can never quite figure out what the hell we are talking about ... like “am I naked”? WTF.

That's a good example of an IED planted to blow up in your face. That is our friend's MO.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t think that I had any significant questions for you. The question about self-cleaning pots was rhetorical. Pots do not clean themselves and neither do sinful human vessels.

Here is one question of a general nature ... can you not see your own posts in quotes when I respond to them? I only ask because you posted a verse, I quoted from your post of that verse in my response, and you replied to my comment with a demand to know what verse I was quoting from. Your demand left me confused since it appeared directly above my comment in the quote from your post.

So just tell me which post # of yours you feel has not been properly answered by me and I will try to be clearer. (Although your personal attacks are wearing thin, I do not believe that I have insulted you.)

I can see PLENTY...
But the fact is that you've refused to answer
to my posts nos. 52 and 53.

I took your verses one by one and showed how you do not exegete them correctly.
If you don't reply it means:

1. You agree with me.
2. You can't support YOUR theology.
3. You don't wish to speak to me, in which case I understand that it's difficult to reply to someone that is correctly explaining scripture, but you should say so since I put time into my replies.

IOW, I showed you how your verses DO NOT support your theology...
You have NEVER shown me how they do,,,except to SAY that they do.
WHY do they? Just because YOU say so?

 

[GodsGrace]

The details I have forgotten, but the frustration I feel after each of your “communications” with me is indelibly etched into my memory. “Conversations with you are never fun” is what I remember clearly.

And it is not that we disagree. I disagree with a lot of people. The problem with talking with you is that I can never quite figure out what the hell we are talking about ... like “am I naked”? WTF.

Gosh...you never read the story?
Everyone kept telling the King what beautiful apparel he had on.
He THOUGHT he might be naked,,,but he trusted what was BEING TOLD TO HIM.

So one day he put on these fine pieces of clothing and was embarrased by the great compliments he got.

BUT HE WAS NAKED. Everyone was lying to him, and he believed them instead of trusting what he saw. He made pride go to his head and believed that which should not have been believed.


http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

 

[bbyrd009]

The details I have forgotten, but the frustration I feel after each of your “communications” with me is indelibly etched into my memory. “Conversations with you are never fun” is what I remember clearly.

hmm, sometimes a convo can be picked back up later i guess, and some headway can be made, did a quick search and couldnt find that one though, Search Results | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board , and that doesnt really sound like me?

And it is not that we disagree. I disagree with a lot of people. The problem with talking with you is that I can never quite figure out what the hell we are talking about ... like “am I naked”? WTF.

"am I naked?" Sorry? Oh, Who told you that you were naked? prolly?
ya, i guess if that question posed to us by God does not strike someone as relevant i should prolly take the hint i guess; still learning how to deal with that, my apologies

 

[marks]

Could you please explain to me the difference between OUR OWN WORKS and those works of God?

I'm talking, naturally, about a person that is saved.
(as we know, unsaved persons can work all they want to and that will not get them saved).

IOW,,, what does "If it is just what I'm doing, well, we know what the Bible uses to describe my own "works of righteousness".

Do you mean to tell me that the good deeds we do are filthy as far as God is concerned?

Could you please post some scripture to back that up?

The N.T. teaches me that I AM to DO good deeds.

1. 
   Galatians 6:9-10
   Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
   
   We will reap what we sow...IF we do not grow weary in doing good.
   
   What are we sowing for if not our salvation?

Hi God's Grace,

Ephesians 8:8-10
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

In this passage, what I see is that God has "before ordained" good works that we should walk in them.

This means to me that there are other works that God did not ordain for me to walk in, and if I choose to do those things, I'm doing them out of my own will, therefore in my own power, therefore lacking in the grace from God, and therefore without the fruit that would have been produced if this were a work of the Holy Spirit through me.

My own works are not effective like God's work through me.

It's like Law and Faith.

Until faith came, the Law had to be good enough, and kept Israel from self-destructing in sin until Messiah arrived. Until maturity in faith in the Spirit, adherence to codes of good behavior are all we can really do.

I think it was @ByGrace who wrote something like, We're actually walking in the Spirit, or we're doing a list of things are what we think walking in the Spirit is. Something like that. If it's confused, I'll take blame!

When we don't believe we are constant recipients of God's grace, the power to live holy and fruitful lives, we still want to do good, and that's good, it's better than doing evil, but it's not walking in the Spirit.

Many people think that walking in the Spirit is some high and lofty ideal, but it's the life God birthed us into. But when we don't believe this life is ours now, we don't walk in it now.

Walking in the Spirit is, I think, something we often do without a thought, just naturally moving from one good thing to another, all while just resting and trusting in Jesus, knowing that He as already made me "good enough", now I'm just sharing His love with others and enjoying the opportunity to do so.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

Gosh...you never read the story?
Everyone kept telling the King what beautiful apparel he had on.
He THOUGHT he might be naked,,,but he trusted what was BEING TOLD TO HIM.

So one day he put on these fine pieces of clothing and was embarrased by the great compliments he got.

BUT HE WAS NAKED. Everyone was lying to him, and he believed them instead of trusting what he saw. He made pride go to his head and believed that which should not have been believed.

http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

Congratulations, now it is my turn to ask ... Do you have a clue what you are talking about?

Let's recap the conversation between bbyrd009 and atpollard that you seem intent to "enlighten" me about:

bbyrd009 jumped into a conversation that I was having with someone else with a message that was 50% "irrelevant" and 50% personal challenge. Here is the post in its entirety:

who told you that you were naked?

ya, what a vicious bastard God is, huh

but if we try to examine that, see, you are gonna go run behind a tree bro, and you wont be anywhere to be found ok. You so profoundly have no clue about what you are even saying here, ok?

Utterly confused by a reference to my being naked (which is probably a reference to God confronting Adam in Genesis 3 and not The Emperor's New Clothes, as you suggest) since I was discussing the OMNIPOTENCE of God and the fact that God does not TRY to do things, as one poster had suggested, but an omnipotent God by the very definition of omnipotence DOES things. I stated this as "God does not TRY, God simply DOES." So I do not see what Genesis 3, or what anyone said to me, or my nakedness or lack of nakedness has to do with the OMNIPOTENCE of GOD!

However, since this was not bbyrd009's first insulting snipe at me, I was getting annoyed at his insults and irrelevant interruptions. So I responded with this message (quoted in its entirety):

You talk a lot of tough smack for someone that never actually puts up anything to discuss.

How would we know what I would do when you always seem to be bluffing and refuse to lay any cards on the table!

If you have something you want to debate with me, then start a topic and call me out on it. I’ll be there.

To my throwing down of a gauntlet to meet bbyrd009 in a new topic of his creation to discuss whatever he wanted to discuss that he felt I would "go run behind a tree bro", bbyrd009 responded with the following brief and obfuscating message (quoted in its entirety):

who told you that you were naked?

Now you can try to explain what any of this has to do with "The Emperor's New Clothes" since you and he seem to wear the same tinfoil hats and understand each other completely. While I was just interjecting a simple point to post #1 that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY does not "try" to do things.

 

[marks]

Practicing suggests imitation. If we are engaged in our own righteousness we are working. If we are imitating or practicing God’s righteousness we are participating in our sanctification.

Claiming that Jesus gives us His righteousness is not accurate - we are not automatically righteousness/perfect after we are justified, instead we are now enrolled as students in the school of loving perfectly, so to speak

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

My understanding of sanctification is that this is God taking the righteousness He gives to us, and training us in how to implement it in our lives.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

hmm, sometimes a convo can be picked back up later i guess, and some headway can be made, did a quick search and couldnt find that one though, Search Results | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board , and that doesnt really sound like me?

“Conversations with you are never fun” was not intended to be a quote of what you said. “Conversations with you are never fun” is what I think and what I remember feeling about having conversations with you.

"am I naked?" Sorry? Oh, Who told you that you were naked? prolly?
ya, i guess if that question posed to us by God does not strike someone as relevant i should prolly take the hint i guess

See post # 107.

I was discussing the OMNIPOTENCE of God with someone else.
You jumped in and asked me: "Who told you that you were naked?" with no context or explanation except to call God a monster and call me a coward.

From that I was expected to read your mind? Hardly.

PS. The word is "probably" and not "prolly". (And the answer is "nobody" because no one told Adam that he was naked. Reread the story and see for yourself. Just like Adam, nobody told me I was a sinner, I saw that for myself. God opened my eyes to the fact that I had a savior. John 6:44 - word.)

 

[justbyfaith]

Righteousness is indeed a free gift:

Rom 5:15, But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16, And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17, For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18, Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I would point out, as a side note, that while the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life; that in order to receive justification of life one must receive the gift: being offered a gift will do nothing for you if you don't receive it.

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[bbyrd009]

But the fact is that you've refused to answer

i felt the same way, had to check after reading here. And ya, i completely got jerked too. Id repost it but ive been down that road before. Ppl scrambling for their lives are not going to be rational, and you are going to be the perp and them the victim, every time i think. Its just human nature. Maybe if i went through your convo and pointed out some deflections, might help, but i guess we would just get a fresh round of excuses.

You cannot really have a conversation with a plantation owner on the morality of owning slaves, so to speak. If someone holds beliefs as Absolute Truths, which is like virtually everyone now seems like, i guess you really cant have a conversation at all, at least about beliefs. Change is hard, and beliefs are all that is holding many ppl together i guess, even if they are really absolute truths to them.

We could point out m pollards lack of responses for the rest of the day, see, and there would be a reasoning valid to him for deflecting away or ignoring each one. And you could reply to every new concept, and be charged with being incomprehensible or whatever too.

it did occur to me when "who told you that you were naked" was rejected that you had understood/liked it at the time, and i considered pointing that out, but i just dont care about winning a convo here that much i guess. M Pollard i wish you the best ok

 

[bbyrd009]

PS. The word is "probably" and not "prolly".

ah, yes, m pollard, and if you had played the "youre" card earlier our interactions could have ended so much sooner bro. Better late than never tho i guess. Have a nice evening alright

 

[GodsGrace]

ah, yes, m pollard, and if you had played the "youre" card earlier our interactions could have ended so much sooner bro. Better late than never tho i guess. Have a nice evening alright

I also say prolly every now and then...
Some intelligent persons I know do this....
So we're in good company!

 

[GodsGrace]

i felt the same way, had to check after reading here. And ya, i completely got jerked too. Id repost it but ive been down that road before. Ppl scrambling for their lives are not going to be rational, and you are going to be the perp and them the victim, every time i think. Its just human nature. Maybe if i went through your convo and pointed out some deflections, might help, but i guess we would just get a fresh round of excuses.

You cannot really have a conversation with a plantation owner on the morality of owning slaves, so to speak. If someone holds beliefs as Absolute Truths, which is like virtually everyone now seems like, i guess you really cant have a conversation at all, at least about beliefs. Change is hard, and beliefs are all that is holding many ppl together i guess, even if they are really absolute truths to them.

We could point out m pollards lack of responses for the rest of the day, see, and there would be a reasoning valid to him for deflecting away or ignoring each one. And you could reply to every new concept, and be charged with being incomprehensible or whatever too.

it did occur to me when "who told you that you were naked" was rejected that you had understood/liked it at the time, and i considered pointing that out, but i just dont care about winning a convo here that much i guess. M Pollard i wish you the best ok

A lot can he taken away from the naked emperor.
Who told you you're naked? Ditto.
But, of course, one has to be willing to talk.

 

[GodsGrace]

Congratulations, now it is my turn to ask ... Do you have a clue what you are talking about?

Let's recap the conversation between bbyrd009 and atpollard that you seem intent to "enlighten" me about:

bbyrd009 jumped into a conversation that I was having with someone else with a message that was 50% "irrelevant" and 50% personal challenge. Here is the post in its entirety:


Utterly confused by a reference to my being naked (which is probably a reference to God confronting Adam in Genesis 3 and not The Emperor's New Clothes, as you suggest) since I was discussing the OMNIPOTENCE of God and the fact that God does not TRY to do things, as one poster had suggested, but an omnipotent God by the very definition of omnipotence DOES things. I stated this as "God does not TRY, God simply DOES." So I do not see what Genesis 3, or what anyone said to me, or my nakedness or lack of nakedness has to do with the OMNIPOTENCE of GOD!

However, since this was not bbyrd009's first insulting snipe at me, I was getting annoyed at his insults and irrelevant interruptions. So I responded with this message (quoted in its entirety):


To my throwing down of a gauntlet to meet bbyrd009 in a new topic of his creation to discuss whatever he wanted to discuss that he felt I would "go run behind a tree bro", bbyrd009 responded with the following brief and obfuscating message (quoted in its entirety):


Now you can try to explain what any of this has to do with "The Emperor's New Clothes" since you and he seem to wear the same tinfoil hats and understand each other completely. While I was just interjecting a simple point to post #1 that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY does not "try" to do things.

Wow. He talks.

How about answering my two page post to you,,, 52 and 53,
Instead of complaining about bb?

I tend to understand persons.
This is a good thing.

We could discuss genesis and the emporers clothes another time.
Just quick :
They both trusted a deceiver.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi God's Grace,

Ephesians 8:8-10
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

In this passage, what I see is that God has "before ordained" good works that we should walk in them.

This means to me that there are other works that God did not ordain for me to walk in, and if I choose to do those things, I'm doing them out of my own will, therefore in my own power, therefore lacking in the grace from God, and therefore without the fruit that would have been produced if this were a work of the Holy Spirit through me.

My own works are not effective like God's work through me.

It's like Law and Faith.

Until faith came, the Law had to be good enough, and kept Israel from self-destructing in sin until Messiah arrived. Until maturity in faith in the Spirit, adherence to codes of good behavior are all we can really do.

I think it was @ByGrace who wrote something like, We're actually walking in the Spirit, or we're doing a list of things are what we think walking in the Spirit is. Something like that. If it's confused, I'll take blame!

When we don't believe we are constant recipients of God's grace, the power to live holy and fruitful lives, we still want to do good, and that's good, it's better than doing evil, but it's not walking in the Spirit.

Many people think that walking in the Spirit is some high and lofty ideal, but it's the life God birthed us into. But when we don't believe this life is ours now, we don't walk in it now.

Walking in the Spirit is, I think, something we often do without a thought, just naturally moving from one good thing to another, all while just resting and trusting in Jesus, knowing that He as already made me "good enough", now I'm just sharing His love with others and enjoying the opportunity to do so.

Much love!

I agree with all but I wouldn't know how to distinguish the difference.
I just believe that when we're saved,,, we do everything for God and with
Him in mind.
Colossians 3:17

 

[bbyrd009]

Wow. He talks.

ha i know huh. Actually not a bot after all

 

[marks]

I agree with all but I wouldn't know how to distinguish the difference.
I just believe that when we're saved,,, we do everything for God and with
Him in mind.
Colossians 3:17

And I don't argue with the simplicity of that statement.

Much love!

 

[aspen]

OK I AM NAKED!! I ADMIT IT! WHO TOLD ME? YOUR SINS TOLD ME! IF I CAN SEE YOUR PERSONAL SIN IT HAS TO BE WITHIN ME!!!

NAKED, NAKED, NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKEEEEEEED!!