BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE

[Spiritual Israelite]

You hear nothing I'm saying. You need eyes to see and ears to hear to get that. You are full of heresy and nonsense. Nothing you say carries any credibility. You should not be allowed on a Christian forum. You are a waste of my good time.

These full preterists are completely lacking in spiritual discernment. Their beliefs are very cultish.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The passage in Acts is same the EXACT same thing as Jesus is saying here:

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus is telling the disciples , that he is going to prepare a place for them him and that He will RECEIVE THEM (take them) to where HE IS (heaven).

The disciples have been IN HEAVEN for two thousand years.

Please tell me how the 12 disciples are going to be HERE (on this earth) when Jesus “comes again” two thousand years down the road?

Have they not already been received in heaven?

Are they going to come back to earth and the be received in heaven again?

He did not say that He will come to them and then bring them to where He was before coming to them (heaven). He said He will come to them and receive them unto Himself so that where He is they may be also. Paul said that we (the church) will meet Jesus "in the air" after He descends from heaven (1 Thess 4:14-17). You are making the same mistake as pre-tribs by thinking He was talking about coming to them and then taking them to heaven. He did not say that. He will be bringing heaven with Him when He comes in the future and will make the heavens and the earth new, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.

 

[IndianaRob]

Scripture never teaches that Jesus comes for you at your death, so you don't have scripture on your side here. If our souls and spirits are escorted by someone to heaven, rather than being supernaturally transported to heaven, upon our deaths, then that would likely be done by angels since angels are the ones who will gather the elect bodily at His future second coming (Matt 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27). So, there is really no basis for thinking that 1 Corinthians 11:26 refers to anything besides His future second coming.

Also, 1 Corinthians 11:26 doesn't even refer to our deaths, it refers to the Lord's death that His people will proclaim until He comes....in the future. You are blinded by your full preterist beliefs.

The Bible says in no uncertain terms that Jesus comes for the believer at his death.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Bible says in no uncertain terms that Jesus comes for the believer at his death.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

LOL. This says no such thing. You are reading things into this verse that aren't there. Where does this say anything about Jesus coming for the believer at His death? Nowhere. It's just sad how blinded you are by full preterism.

 

[IndianaRob]

LOL. This says no such thing. You are reading things into this verse that aren't there. Where does this say anything about Jesus coming for the believer at His death? Nowhere. It's just sad how blinded you are by full preterism.

Jesus told the disciples: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself.” This is a personal promise to the disciples.

The disciples have been in heaven for 2,000 years and they were not taken as a group, they each died separately.

Since the disciples are already in heaven, this cannot point to a still-future second coming.

The only thing it can point to is a personal promise: Jesus comes for each believer at death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus told the disciples: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself.” This is a personal promise to the disciples.

He was speaking generally about all of His followers, not just the disciples.

The disciples have been in heaven for 2,000 years and they were not taken as a group, they each died separately.

Since the disciples are already in heaven, this cannot point to a still-future second coming.

The only thing it can point to is a personal promise: Jesus comes for each believer at death.

Their spirits and souls are in heaven, but they still are awaiting the resurrection of their bodies and the change of their bodies to be made incorruptible and immortal. Nowhere does scripture teach that Jesus comes for each believer at death. If believers are gathered and taken to heaven upon death, then it would be the angels doing that, not Jesus. Jesus talked about the angels gathering the elect, so it's clearly something He would have His angels do rather than doing it Himself.

 

[IndianaRob]

He was speaking generally about all of His followers, not just the disciples.


Their spirits and souls are in heaven, but they still are awaiting the resurrection of their bodies and the change of their bodies to be made incorruptible and immortal. Nowhere does scripture teach that Jesus comes for each believer at death. If believers are gathered and taken to heaven upon death, then it would be the angels doing that, not Jesus. Jesus talked about the angels gathering the elect, so it's clearly something He would have His angels do rather than doing it Himself.

The only reason you’re saying “he was speaking generally” is because the words DO NOT say what you need them to say to support your gospel.

What you just admitted was that yes you agree that those verses are saying that Jesus comes back for us individually BUT you don’t care what the words actually say.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The only reason you’re saying “he was speaking generally” is because the words DO NOT say what you need them to say to support your gospel.

Says the guy who makes things up constantly to make scripture say what he wants it to say.

What you just admitted was that yes you agree that those verses are saying that Jesus comes back for us individually BUT you don’t care what the words actually say.

I admitted no such thing. Grow up.

 

[IndianaRob]

Says the guy who makes things up constantly to make scripture say what he wants it to say.


I admitted no such thing. Grow up.

Blah blah blah. You sound like WPM when he can’t defend his position.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Blah blah blah. You sound like WPM when he can’t defend his position.

I have defended my position to you many times while refuting your full preterist nonsense. So "Blah blah blah" describes your position very well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

HEY... we've got a NEW spiritualizer of Bible Scripture joined with Spiritual Israelite! It's jeffweeder!

All those cats used to be on my IGNORE LIST, but I figured I'd given them another chance at hearing. Doesn't appear their confusion has gotten any better.

Like the rest of us, his view is based on clear, straightforward scriptures. You continue to make a fool of yourself with your inane comments.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

MORE AVOIDANCE! You have to. Your argument is in tatters.

Let's put your wild claims to the test and see who the real spiritualizers are and who the real literalists are. I put it to you it is the Premils who are the real spiritualizers and Amils who the real literalists!

I Thessalonians 5:2-3: “the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 declares: “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

1. Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
2. Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
3. Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
4. Do do you believe that Jesus is literally coming "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?
5. Do do you believe that the wicked shall literally "be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)?
6. What unregenerate man is excluded from the description of "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:8)?
7. Do you believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
8. Do you believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
9. Do you believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
10. Do you believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
11. Do you believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

Pagan Gnosticism governed by Satan's host that has crept into certain so-called Christian denominations and/or Christian Cults, is still... the main enemies here on earth against Christ's Church. What are they actually about?

Look at how the cowardly liar Davy didn't even bother trying to answer even one of these questions. He has no conscience about lying about us even after we show how our Amillennial doctrine is based on clear, straightforward scriptures like the ones you referenced here.

 

[jaybird]

Just like what Communists do, of course they DENY the REAL TRUTH and paint instead with a fake feel-sorry-for-me brush. One of my great-grandfathers was an Inquisitor in France, and the problem was much more involved than persecuting little children and the elderly.

John the baptist and the 12 all practiced communism i thought sharing things was a good thing, but your saying looking out for oneself and being greedy is better?
sounds like your saying the "REAL TRUTH" is killing 100 children to get one witch is acceptable.
if a thousand innocent women and children were murdered yes, i would "feel sorry" for them. feeling nothing would be soulless psychopath behavior, like john wayne gacy and ted bundy.

do you have any examples of witches involved in wrongdoing? so far all you have provided are accusations, anyone can do that and without evidence its just words. i can help you get started

baron gilles de rais
15th cen french nobleman accused of (things i cant say) with children, abducting and killing adults, weird sex debauchery parties, and more. was eventually denounced and executed. most accept this story however some academics note the red flags, his accusers were his rivals, many of his crimes he could not have done, and his enemies benefited greatly from his death, they got all his land and estates.

this is how a proper debate works

 

[JLB]

ANY... idea that TODAY, that all endtime prophecy had already been fulfilled back at Jesus' 1st coming, or at 70 A.D., etc., and that Christ's Kingdom has ALREADY COME HERE ON EARTH, is a DOCTRINE OF PAGAN GNOSTICISM.

‘Amen.

Preterism is a false doctrine.

 

[JLB]

Jesus told the disciples: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself.” This is a personal promise to the disciples.

The disciples have been in heaven for 2,000 years and they were not taken as a group, they each died separately.

Since the disciples are already in heaven, this cannot point to a still-future second coming.

The only thing it can point to is a personal promise: Jesus comes for each believer at death.

‘Here is what happens to a believer when they die.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

• to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Believers are in heaven with the Lord.


They will return with Him at His coming, to receive their resurrection bodies, along with those who are alive and remain.

• And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16



But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

 

[IndianaRob]

‘Here is what happens to a believer when they die.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

• to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Believers are in heaven with the Lord.


They will return with Him at His coming, to receive their resurrection bodies, along with those who are alive and remain.

• And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16



But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

Paul includes himself in “those who are alive and remain” at the coming of the Lord.

How is Paul one of those who are alive and remain if Jesus still hasn’t returned?

 

[Davy]

Like the rest of us, his view is based on clear, straightforward scriptures. You continue to make a fool of yourself with your inane comments.

I have no comment for you, I've added you back to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[ScottA]

Did the AI get this right?

His answer is more of a philosophical dodge than an actual response to your point. Let me break down what he’s trying to say:

1. He’s shifting the frame to “God’s eternity” vs. human time.
   He’s basically saying: in heaven there are no clocks, no years, no sequence like we experience on earth. So when Jesus speaks about “coming again” or “receiving” people, it’s not in a strict linear, 2,000-years-later sense.
2. He’s saying people enter eternity instantly when they die.
   His idea is that the disciples (and everyone else) don’t experience a long wait. From heaven’s perspective, they “depart and arrive” instantly — in the “twinkling of an eye.”
3. He ties Christ’s return to an individual, spiritual sense.
   He’s not really talking about a visible Second Coming to earth at the end of history. Instead, he’s saying Jesus “comes again” to each believer individually — either when they die, or when they accept Him (using Revelation 3:20 about “I stand at the door and knock”).
4. He appeals to Paul’s “each in his own order” (1 Cor 15:23).
   He uses that phrase to say resurrection/entry into eternal life doesn’t all happen at once at the end, but individually when each person dies or believes.

---

So in plain English, what he’s arguing is:

• Heaven is outside time.
• The disciples didn’t have to “wait 2,000 years” — they were instantly with Christ.
• Jesus’ “coming again” isn’t just one big event at the end; it happens to each person when they die (or when they receive Him in faith).

That’s why he says you’re making a mistake by trying to define it “in time-based, worldly terms.”

Basically, he spiritualized the whole thing and avoided your challenge about the disciples already being in heaven when Jesus “comes again.”

Only parts of it are correct. But the problem is, it, like you and some on this thread are responding based on first demonizing the spiritualizing of what is of God whom is spirit; and from a position of thinking that I am arguing or basing what I am saying on my opinion--which I am not. But even then your AI summary (I have highlighted above in red) is correct--of course it would be, as Paul and the whole of scripture has eluded to it in very much the same way.

 

[Davy]

John the baptist and the 12 all practiced communism i thought sharing things was a good thing, but your saying looking out for oneself and being greedy is better?

Somehow, I KNEW you supported Leftist-Idealism which of course includes Communist theory.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:
Ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist ought to be mandatory reading in every Christian household, especially in today's time, because World Communism certainly is not dead.

What those like John the Baptist and Christ's Apostles practiced certainly was NOT Communism. A commune of people living together and sharing doth not Communism make.


A real Historical Example of what Communist-Socialism is:

Communism does not believe in 'property rights'. God does. Apostle Paul even taught we each are to do our own work, and those who will not work should not eat (2 Thess.3:10; Gal.6:4).

At the Jamestown settlement in early America, at first everything was held in common. The effect of that was that some worked harder while others didn't, but all received the same. That first winter many starved for lack of food. Then the policy was changed to the Biblical Principle, that if you didn't work you didn't eat. And what extra you produced you could trade or sell (i.e., property rights). That year there was an ABUNDANCE, and no one starved. I'm not making that up. That was real history at the early Jamestown settlement.

Communism is still different than a commune though, because it does NOT recognize individual property rights. Nor does Communism recognize ANY natural God-given rights. Instead, Communism claims only the state... can give an individual rights. That is how Communist Russia's leaders like Stalin, Khrushchev, etc., murdered millions of their own peoples in Ukraine when they starved them by their state-run farm programs, which no longer produced enough food for the people.

Thus those who TRY to compare Communism with communal sharing per God's Word are just full of Leftist-Socialist hot air. Get the book! Progressive is the NEW WORD today for Communism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have no comment for you, I've added you back to my IGNORE LIST.

Oh no. What do I do now? LOL.

You had no comment for me, anyway, because you will not admit that you are lying about the origins of Amillennialism while acting like we spiritualize everything. The fact of the matter is that Amillennialism is based on many clear, straightforward scriptures as I've shown. But, you don't care about the facts or about telling the truth.