Bible Study - 'The Second Coming of Christ'

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ugh...this is the rehashing of age old assumptions for and against, which is also foretold.

Perhaps so.

There are many questions presented here and many assumptions of speculation and conjecture, which is not a good approach to seeking the truth, leaving many to continue to stumble. The better approach is to simply "ask." The Spirit is fully willing and capable of answering with "all truth."

Just simply asking won't get you very far though, you have research and go through the scriptures and look and see and considering the surround historical context friend.

It similar to those who believe Once saved, always saved.

Imagine you are in a boat, and the boat is Jesus of course he saved you, but you have to do your own effort to not go over the edge of the waterfall that the stream is pulling you to, you have to make some type of effort, and asking is a start as you said, however so is looking, seeking. Do you remember that God is a rewarder for those who seek him?

Hebrews 11:6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

But whoever answers for themselves out of their own understanding, will not receive what is actually true, for they have stepped in front of Him who is withheld by that very act of self-diversion.

"Ask!"

You have to actually read and look and study the Bible, and also consider the culture being written to though my friend. For me it is fun to go and do verse by verse it keeps my mind focused as best I can on the text either way it goes, and that can be for any book of the Bible.

Thank you for posting and sharing, ScottA.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #19

Mat 24:28 for wherever the carcass may be, there the eagles will be gathered together.

  • Jesus goes on to state to his disciples, wherever the carcass may be - This wouldn't be talking about Christ would it, to whom sensible sinner flock would it? What about the people of the Jews in their fallen, deplorable, miserable, and lifeless state, who were like the body of a man, or any other creature, struck dead with lighting from heaven; being destroyed by the breathe of the mouth, and the brightness of the coming of the son of man, like lighting, just as the antichrist will be at the last day: - John Gill
  • There will be the eagles gathered together: The Eagles here are though to be the very ones who would come and destroy Jerusalem for it's crime of having killed the Son of God, the Roman ensign was an eagle, to which probably our Lord alluded in this passage - Joseph Benson

Mat 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

  • We are not come to the last act of this dismal tragedy, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the find dissolution of the Jewish polity in church and state, which our Lord, for several reasons, might not think to fit to declare nakedly, and plainly, and there for chose to clothe his discourse in figurative language. Commentators, indeed, have generally understood this, and what follows, for he end of the world, and of Christ's coming to judgement: but the words, immediately after the tribulations of those days, so evidently that he is not speaking of any distant event, but of something immediately consequent upon the tribulation before mentioned, and that must be the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem, and the abolition of the Jewish polity, civil and religious. It is true, his figures are very strong, but not stronger than those used by the ancient prophets upon similar occasions.
  • The Prophet Isaiah speaks in the same manner of the destruction of Babylon, Isa 13:10, The stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
  • The Prophet Ezekiel describes in similar terms the destruction coming on Egypt, Eze 32:7-8. When I shall put thee out I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
  • The Prophet Daniel also uses similar language, when speaking of the slaughter of the Jews by the little horn,meaning probably Antiochus Epiphanes: And it waxed great even unto the host of heaven; and cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
  • And lastly, God, by Joel, foretelling this very same destruction of Jerusalem, Joe 2:30-31, says, I will show wonders in heaven and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood. So that great commotions and revolutions upon earth are often represented by commotions and changes in the heavens. - Commentator Joseph Benson



Mat 24:30 and then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in the sky; and then will all the tribes of the earth strike the breast, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven, with power and much glory;

  • Jesus states to his disciples after all of these things come about, from the abomination of desolation, and wars, persecutions, famines, and the great destruction of Jerusalem would come about, and then will appear - the sign - of the Son of Man in the sky;
    • This language if also founded in Johns letters of Revelation 1:1-7; in verse 7 it reads
    • 7 Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the land will wail because of Him. Yes! Amen!
  • Jesus continues on in verse 30; to his disciples who asked him about what will be the sign of your presence and the end of the age? States then will all the tribes of the earth strike the breast, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven, with power and much glory.
  • What is interesting to note here is tribes of the earth - or land or economy could this also relate to the very tribes identified in Revelation 7?
  • Would they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven, with power and much glory? In my best estimation yes, they would. Could this allude to him being there at this time?

Mat 24:31 and He will send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to the ends thereof.

Mat 24:32 And from the fig tree learn the allegory: when its branch may have already become tender, and it may put forth the leaves, you know that summer [is] near,

Mat 24:33 so also you, when you may see all these, you know that it is near—at the doors.

Mat 24:34 Truly I say to you, this generation may not pass away until all these may come to pass.

  • Jesus said to his disciples that, Truly I say to you, this generation may not pass away until all these may come to pass.
  • The question is do you believe that Jesus is truly telling them the truth? This meaning that generation is what he is referring to, which is normally a period of 40 years.
  • Some people simply do not and simply discredit this passage, as though it is meant for any generation, in a sense that would mean Jesus would continuously always be coming back again and again.
  • Fausset Cyclopedia : Generation Hebrew dowr, "revolution," period of time; 100 years in the patriarchal age (Gen 15:13; Gen 15:16; Exo 12:40), afterward 30 or 40 years (Job 42:16; Luk 1:50).


Mat 24:35 The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

  • This scripture, is normally taken literally - that when the Son of Man comes, the heaven and earth are going to pass away, however the key note here in this passage spoken by Jesus - but My words will not pass away. 2000 years later since the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. His words still have not passed away, they still are outstanding the test of time itself. However the heaven and the earth will pass away, and this language that Jesus is using here, is in reference to the Heaven and the earth that the Jews knew - they were picked and chosen and brought forth out of Egypt lead by Moses but approved by God.
  • The time was going to come to an end and it would instate a new administration through the Victory of Jesus Christ, and the old administration which was through the Law - sacrifices, ordinates, priesthoods, genealogies, were all wiped away and done away with when their heaven and earth was destroyed - at the complete destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

- Matthew 24:29-35 commentary Robert Hawker
  • The darkening of the sun and moon, and falling of the stars, are certainly meant in a figurative way; and were intended to imply, that on the dispersion of the Jews, those awful events should follow which the Prophet foretold, when the Lord would cause the sun to go down at noon. See the whole prophecy, Amo 8:8 to the end. Neither when the Lord speaks of the Son of Man coming to judgment, could be meant, that immediately after the destruction of Jerusalem, would be the day of final judgment; but rather the judgment on the Jews, for rejecting the Lord of life and glory, and the sending of his Angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and gathering his elect, implies, his ministers going forth to preach the Gospel, which with the effect, is spoken of both by the Prophet and the Apostle. Isa 27:13; Rev 14:6. And the limitation of those events, to the then generation, in which Christ predicted them, is a plain proof to what they referred. For it was not full forty years after, when Jerusalem wan destroyed; so that consequently many lived to see the accomplishment. - Robert Hawker commentary
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #22

Mat 24:36 And concerning that day and the hour no one has known—not even the messengers of the heavens—except My Father only;

  • Remember we went over this scripture earlier, Jesus stated to his disciples after giving them an great list of things that were to come, He makes them aware that concerning that Day and the hour no one has known - not even the messengers of the heavens -- except Jesus's Father only.
  • Now think for yourself for a moment, just because the day or the hour is not known by anyone but that Father does that mean that it was not going to happen? That Father still knew the hour and the day, however Jesus was not even let known about it, only His Father was aware and knew about. On Behalf of the Father however, Jesus was allowed to let them know the things that they would hear, and see and experience as far as we can gain aside from the figurative language that Jesus had spoken, because he perhaps he knew these things were going to all be written down and distributed with in an short amount of time with-in that generation, before the time the Father appointed was going to be.

Mat 24:37 and as the days of Noah—so will also be the coming of the Son of Man;
  • People who take the Bible literally, - believe that we live in the times of Noah, but perhaps that is a misappropriation really all together. It is simply a reference of the same things in the days of Noah. While Noah was to build the Ark, everyone would be minding their own things, and not paying attention, and perhaps this is what the Lord Jesus Christ desired for them to do. Pay attention and to remember the words that He had stated, to continue and remain watchful, and not to give up.

Mat 24:38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the Ark,

  • Compassion langage here Jesus is telling his disciples, for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day of Noah entered into the Ark,
  • All but 8 souls survived on the Ark - the rest of society was pay attention to their own matters.

Mat 24:39 and they did not know until the flood came and took all away; so will also be the coming of the Son of Man.

  • Jesus goes not to say and they did not know - because they were following their own matters and not the ways of God - and they only knew it was to late when the flood came and took all away, it is the same that will be when the Son of Man comes. The apostles would go out to the people of Israel (Paul to the Gentiles later on), and there would people who come to faith, and there would be those who reject the faith, even become so deprived in their mind that false messiahs would come about, and also false prophets.

Mat 24:40 Then two [men] will be in the field: one is received, and one is left;

Mat 24:41 two [women] will be grinding in the mill: one is received, and one is left.

  • My thoughts on these two verses is that, One would receive Christ, but one would be left perhaps a remnant of those who perhaps were captured and taken away during the destruction of Jerusale, One remaining, one left. Perhaps one taken away by the Lord when he returned because of being watchful and mindful of the signs of the time that Jesus had told the apostles who would go and share the very same message that Jesus had told them.
  • I could always be wrong.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore, because you have not known in what hour your Lord comes;

  • Jesus tells his disciples - to Watch, because you have not known in what hour your Lord comes.
grēgoreuō

gray-gor-yoo'-o

From G1453; to keep awake, that is, watch (literally or figuratively): - be vigilant, wake, (be) watch (-ful).

  • So thus Jesus tells them to be watchful and be mindful of everything that he had told them.
  • Watch: Mat 25:13, Mat 26:38-41; Mar 13:33-37; Luk 12:35-40, Luk 21:36; Rom 13:11; 1Co 16:13; 1Th 5:6; 1Pe 4:7, 1Pe 5:8; Rev 3:2-3, Rev 16:15

Mat 24:43 and know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief comes, he had watched, and did not permit his house to be broken through;

Mat 24:44 because of this also you, become ready, because in what hour you do not think, the Son of Man comes.

  • Jesus goes on to say - talking them about the master of the house, in what watch the thief comes, he had watched, and di don't permit his house to be broken through, because of this also you, become ready, because in what hour you do not think, the Son of Man comes.
  • A Direct promise that Jesus would indeed becoming, and for them to be ready and watchful.

To the next post: #26
 
Last edited:

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Thank you for pointing out some problems, but as a person who believes all things were fulfilled about the coming of Jesus, I believe that he had physically had returned for his bride groom there in that age those who were waiting and watching, seen him come those who were unbelieving were not watching and did not see him but there are historical reports about the destruction of Jerusalem. Just wanted to share my own personal view, compared to what you had said sir, thank you for mentioning them.
MatthewG, you are totally CLUELESS but that does not stop you from posting your nonsensical "studies". All you are doing is trying to ensnare the gullible. Just remember that you will be held accountable for placing stumbling blocks in the paths of Christians. If you are truly sorry for your misdirections, then you should become a humble student and try to learn from others. Not "teach" through you misleading posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #23

Mat 24:45 Who, then, is the servant, faithful and wise, whom his lord set over his household, to give them the nourishment in season?

  • Jesus goes on talking to his disciples and say something interesting here; here is a interesting comment for John Gill.
  • Who then is a faithful and wise servant,.... The Vulgate Latin adds, "do you think?" and is a question put to the disciples, which they might apply to themselves: in Luk 12:42, it is spoken in answer to a question of Peter's, in relation to the above exhortation, whether it was spoken to them, or to all; and by this answer, it looks as if it was more especially designed for them, though it may be applied to other.

    The "servant" is there called a "steward", for such a servant is meant; and a name that is very proper for the apostles and ministers of the word, who are stewards of the mysteries of Christ, and of the manifold grace of God; and whose characters are, that they are "faithful": for this is required in stewards, that they be faithful to the trust reposed in them; as ministers are, when they preach the pure Gospel of Christ, and the whole of it; conceal no part, nor keep anything of it; seek not to please men, but God; neither seek their own things, their ease, honour, and profit, but the glory of God, the honour of Christ, and the good of souls; and abide by the truths, cause, and interest of a Redeemer, at all hazards.

    And they are "wise", who know and are well instructed in divine things; who make Christ the main subject of their ministry; who improve their talents and time for their master's use, and the advantage of those that are under their care; who seek for, and deliver acceptable words and matter; and manage their whole trust, so as to be able to give in a good account of their stewardship another day. The post that such a person is put in, and the work he is to do, follow:

    whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household; or "family", the church of God, which is the household of God, and of faith, in which are believers of various growths and sizes; some fathers, some young men, some children; and over these, the ministers are, by their Lord, made and placed as rulers; not as lords and tyrants over God's heritage, to govern them in an arbitrary way, but as over them in the Lord, to rule them according to the word of God, and the laws of his house; by preaching the Gospel, administering ordinances, and keeping up his worship and the discipline of the church; and whose principal business it is,

    to give them meat in due season; even "their portion" of it, as in Luk 12:42, for the word of God is to be cut and rightly divided, and everyone in the family, according to his age, appetite, and digestion, is to have his proper part and portion given him: it must be meat, proper food, such as is solid, substantial, and nourishing; even the wholesome words of Christ Jesus, that must be given them, and not husks and empty trash; and all in due season, in its proper time, as their cases and circumstances require, and call for; as whether weary, or uncomfortable, or in the dark, or under temptations and afflictions: for a word fitly and seasonably spoken, how useful is it!

Mat 24:46 Blessed that servant, whom his lord, having come, will find doing so;

  • Matthew 24:46 - John Gill
    Blessed is that servant whom his Lord, when he cometh,.... Whether in a way of judgment, as against Jerusalem; or at death, when he comes to remove him out of time, into eternity; or at the day of judgment, when he, the righteous judge, will give the crown of righteousness to him:

    shall find so doing; acting the faithful and wise part, ruling the household of God well; giving to all wholesome food, a proper portion of it, and that in the right time.

Mat 24:47 truly I say to you that he will set him over all his substance.

  • John Gill -
  • Verily I say unto you,.... Nothing is a greater truth, more certain, or to be depended on, than this; all such wise, faithful, diligent, and industrious servants may expect it:
  • that he, shall make him ruler over all his goods; will honour him with greater gifts, bestow a larger degree of Gospel light and knowledge on him, make him more useful in the church below, and at last cause him to inherit all things in the other world, all glory, happiness, and bliss.

Mat 24:48 And if that evil servant may say in his heart, My lord delays to come,

Mat 24:49 and may begin to beat the fellow-servants, and to eat and to drink with the drunken,

Mat 24:50 the lord of that servant will arrive in a day when he does not expect, and in an hour of which he does not know,

Mat 24:51 and will cut him off, and will appoint his portion with the hypocrites; there will be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.”

The rest of what Jesus expresses through verses 48 - are talking about the evil servant - that starts to say in his heart, My lord delays to come - which was going to be in a generation of (40 years), and may begin to beat the fellow-servants, and to eat, and to drink, with the drunken - totally giving up on faith in waiting, for the coming of the Son of Man, and the lord of that servant will arrive in a day when does not expect, and in an hour of which does not know (you can actually simply relate this to death now today.) The wicked servant that gives up on faith and trusting in the Lord will be cut off, and will be appointed to have his porition with the hypocrites; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
Last edited:

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,911
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
MatthewG, you are totally CLUELESS but that does not stop you from posting your nonsensical "studies". All you are doing is trying to ensnare the gullible. Just remember that you will be held accountable for placing stumbling blocks in the paths of Christians. If you are truly sorry for your misdirections, then you should become a humble student and try to learn from others. Not "teach" through you misleading posts.
Ditto
 

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,911
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #23



The rest of what Jesus expresses through verses 48 - are talking about the evil servant - that starts to say in his heart, My lord delays to come - which was going to be in a generation of (40 years), and may begin to beat the fellow-servants, and to eat, and to drink, with the drunken - totally giving up on faith in waiting, for the coming of the Son of Man, and the lord of that servant will arrive in a day when does not expect, and in an hour of which does not know (you can actually simply relate this to death now today.) The wicked servant that gives up on faith and trusting in the Lord will be cut off, and will be appointed to have his porition with the hypocrites; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Yes along with all the false teachers
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
MatthewG, you are totally CLUELESS but that does not stop you from posting your nonsensical "studies".

It is so important for individuals to study.

All you are doing is trying to ensnare the gullible. Just remember that you will be held accountable for placing stumbling blocks in the paths of Christians.

Is that what is really being done, or trying to just get a direct study going verse by verse to the best of my ability hopefully by the Holy Spirit to help people come to and understanding about something they totally may not even understand when they read it, and only take it completely literally for every word rather than a deeper study.

If you are truly sorry for your misdirections, then you should become a humble student and try to learn from others. Not "teach" through you misleading posts.

I like teaching it is fun and it is amazing things that people can learn from doing such a thing, sir. I am always capable of being wrong, but so are all individuals in this life, we are all fallible so it is not a fair assumption to just discredit me, but it is okay if you do.
 
Last edited:

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,911
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is so important for individuals to study.



Is that what is really being done, or trying to just get a direct study going verse by verse to the best of my ability hopefully by the Holy Spirit to help people come to and understanding about something they totally may not even understand when they read it, and only take it completely literally for every word rather than a deeper study.



I like teaching it is fun and it is amazing things that people can learn from doing such a thing, sir.
Teaching is a spiritual gift and the Holy Spirit does not give that gift to false teachers , that comes from another spirit as per 1 John 4:2-3 and 2 John 1:7.

hope this helps !!!
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #26

There has been a lot to go through the Chapter of Matthew 24; which so much can be learned if one does a study verse by verse and check out other commentators because there are many more people that are far more smarter than me and have done their research and taken the time to learn about these subjects through-out the course of their life, we have found out that when Jesus said this generation that shall not pass away, was going to be a period of 40 years before that generation did pass away, which would come through and by the destruction of Jerusalem, that would be caused by the Roman Empire, which in my opinion was going to be used by God to bring to ruin the materially done religion under the heaven and earth of the Jewish nation who were brought out from the land of Egypt by God, and appointed by Him, but of course they started rebelling and God destroyed them in the wilderness.

The same thing was going to happen, because of Jerusalem and their divorcement of God himself, and their idolatries and depraved ways that had started to go in and God desired to be able to reconcile the world back unto himself through the Lord Jesus Christ, and also to divorce the old covenant which would establish the new covenant which would be when God would write on the hearts and minds of individuals who looked to him in faith.

The old administration of having sacrifices, priesthoods, and the genealogies, were all done away with and waxing old, and were obliterated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, and the bride that was the Bride of Christ was married to God during these times of tribulations and persecutions and they were on watch being ready for the Lord and his return which He came back just has he had ascended in Acts, to return and grab those were the first fruits of Christ Jesus, and now today I believe personally the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem is now established by the removing of the heaven and earth that he Jews had formerly known (that old administration replaced by the new administration.)

One being a material application (circumcision was also part of the old administration), one being the Spiritual application by and through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and an individual can become a child of God now today, and all of these things spoken about when it comes to the end of the age are now done and over with.

continued from post #33
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #31

So as stated about Jesus coming back just as he had ascended, this is found in the very first chapter of Acts.

  • Act 1:10 and as they were looking steadfastly to the sky in His going on, then, behold, two men stood by them in white clothing,

  • Act 1:11 who also said, “Men, Galileans, why do you stand gazing into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into Heaven, will so come in what manner you saw Him going on to Heaven.”

And as they were looking steadfastly to the sky in His (Jesus) going on, then, behold, two men stood by them in white clothing, who also said "Men, Galileans, why do you stand gazing into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into Heaven, will so come in what manner you shaw Him going on to Heaven.

Considering that with-in a generation the Son of Man would come back which is a period of forty years, an interesting then to note, these who were standing here who seen the the Lord go into heaven, were promised by two mean in white clothing - that they would also come in the same matter - back down from heaven, in which he would return for those who were waiting and watching and they would be changed in the twinkling of the eye, going on from dealing with the wrath that would be meeted out properly to the Nation of Israel for having killed the son, and also those who had made a mockery of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,765
5,607
113
www.CheeseburgersWithGod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Perhaps so.

Just simply asking won't get you very far though, you have research and go through the scriptures and look and see and considering the surround historical context friend.

It similar to those who believe Once saved, always saved.

Imagine you are in a boat, and the boat is Jesus of course he saved you, but you have to do your own effort to not go over the edge of the waterfall that the stream is pulling you to, you have to make some type of effort, and asking is a start as you said, however so is looking, seeking. Do you remember that God is a rewarder for those who seek him?

Hebrews 11:6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

You have to actually read and look and study the Bible, and also consider the culture being written to though my friend. For me it is fun to go and do verse by verse it keeps my mind focused as best I can on the text either way it goes, and that can be for any book of the Bible.

Thank you for posting and sharing, ScottA.
The problem is...everyone believes and receives by their own measure (and by the same measure it is measured back to each).

That is why we have such disagreement amongst us.

But what good does it do if we only seek that measure that suits us, that measure that tickles our ears? How long will we spin our wheels and beat our own drums, saying "Lord Lord?" The warnings are many. Certainly, that is not the way unto all truth. We must decrease, but He must increase.

For this reason Paul counseled that the bride be silent...that the Spirit alone should speak during these times.

For this reason I recommend asking rather than making statements born out of questions.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The problem is...everyone believes and receives by their own measure (and by the same measure it is measured back to each).

That is why we have such disagreement amongst us.

Hello ScottA,

Sure that is true, everyone believes and receives by their own measure, and one measure that one is given to be able to do freely, no matter at what age, is study the Bible. Though to far older in age might become more difficult, also our flesh hating reading the Bible is also a problem for us as well my friend. Our flesh doesn't care to read the Bible, but the spirit is willingly.

But what good does it do if we only seek that measure that suits us, that measure that tickles our ears?

That depends on the individual, truth for me is what is paramount however when it comes to the differences that you mentioned before are nullified by love. Agape love, to allow others to have the freedom in Christ and liberty in him, to believe and think, and have their own measure of knowledge if they desire to learn more or not learn more, it's crucial for us to study and to learn and grow in the Spirt, and in the knowledge of YHWH.

How long will we spin our wheels and beat our own drums, saying "Lord Lord?"

If you are referring to Lord Lord, did we not do this or that for you? That is a warning about not looking to ourselves as look at what we do for you, however it is about thank you Lord God Almighty for what you have done for all the world! Praise be to you! And worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

The warnings are many. Certainly, that is not the way unto all truth. We must decrease, but He must increase.

To decrease one needs to eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood, and allow him to become more part of you in your life as you continue to have faith.

There are many people who just believe that you can put your trust and faith in Jesus and he does everything else, that is not true at all. Even the Heavenly Angels, wanted something else and they gave up what they had and had a punishment for it according to Jude. Those who were lead out of Egypt started muttering and complaining against God, longing back to go back to where they came and they were destroyed by God as a punishment for giving up what they did have.

It is easy to say, We must decreases, but He must increase, much more difficult to really truly let be a reality for an individual that feeds off of the Lord, there is not any other way to increase a persons faith other than to hear the word of God, that increases faith that would be the same thing in studying and allowing revelations to unfold for you as study by and through prayer and hopefully the Holy Spirit.

For this reason Paul counseled that the bride be silent...that the Spirit alone should speak during these times.

For this reason I recommend asking rather than making statements born out of questions.

Not so sure I believe you here, they seemed very open about their faith and even dying for their faith in believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, and were persecuted and killed for their faith - noted by the Apostles and what they went out and done.

Do whatever you may be lead to do sir, and may God bless you in your endeavors.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #33

Bouncing back off what what was stated in the book of Acts, and after having gone through the 24th chapter of Matthew let's look ahead in Matthew 26, where Jesus admits once again of his foretelling of coming back again.

Matthew 26:60-64
Young's Literal Translation

60 and they did not find; and many false witnesses having come near, they did not find; and at last two false witnesses having come near,

  • Jesus had just been apprehended and taken to a person named Caiaphas who was the chief priest at the time, where the scribes and elders were gathered together.
  • Peter was following after Jesus far off, to the court of the chief priest, and having gone within, he was sitting with the officers to see the end (of this dispute.)
  • So this is a historical account of where Jesus was when he had became apprehended, and they ere putting him on trial, where they had court at with the chief priest, scribes and elders.
  • And these chief priest and elders, and all the council, were seeking false witness against Jesus, that they might put Him to death.
  • Now here in verse 60 we find, and they did not find; and many false witnesses having come near, they did not find (any thing against Him), and at last two false witness having come near said.

61 said, `This one said, I am able to throw down the sanctuary of God, and after three days to build it.'
  • Earlier Jesus had said this in the Gospel of John,
  • John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
  • Now Jesus was talking about his own body, and that He would raise it again in three days - because his Father would raise him again in three days ( I believe his Father was speaking by the Holy Spirit here through Jesus.)
  • Jesus also did mention the destruction of the temple, and that was also true and perhaps that is why they had heard about what Jesus had said some how through the apostles sharing with others, and they got the information mixed up about what Jesus had said about Him going to be raised again from the dead, thus their accusation was indeed wrong. However true, because it was going to be taken down eventually with-in a period of forty years. Where Jesus had returned with judgement, and the wrath of God poured out on the nation of Israel for having killed the Son of God.
  • (I could be wrong it is just how it kind of seen by me personally.)

62 And the chief priest having stood up, said to him, `Nothing thou dost answer! what do these witness against thee?

  • And the chief priest having stood up, said to him, Nothing has ye to answer! What do these witness against thee?
  • So with all of these accusations Jesus remained silent.

63 and Jesus was silent. And the chief priest answering said to him, `I adjure thee, by the living God, that thou mayest say to us, if thou art the Christ -- the Son of God.'

  • Jesus was silent. And the chief priest Caiaphas said to him 'I adjure the, by the living God, that thou mayest says to us, if thou art the Christ -- the Son of God.
  • They knew it, they talked about it all the time, and they did not like it, and they desired to kill him for it, I am reminded of what nicodemus had said
    • John 3:2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
  • Nicodemus said this coming to Jesus at night to talk to him, as not probably to get caught by the other priest and scribes, and Jesus had a conversation with him.

64 Jesus saith to him, `Thou hast said; nevertheless I say to you, hereafter ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming upon the clouds, of the heaven.'

  • Jesus said to him - Thou has said; nevertheless I say to you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming upon the clouds, of the heaven.
  • After this, everything went array and the crowds went in uproar and they started beating and spitting on Jesus, because he had claimed such authority, to be able to sit on the right hand of power - (until all things were made his footstool.) He also said to - Him (Caiaphas the Chief priest) that he shall see the Son of Man sitting there, and coming upon the clouds, of the heaven.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Continued from post #36

Matthew 26:64 - John Gill Commentary

Jesus saith unto him, thou hast said
,.... That is, thou hast said right; or as Mark expresses it, "I am", Mar 14:62, the Christ, the anointed of God, who was so from everlasting, and in time; being before the world was, installed into, and invested with the office of mediator; and in the fulness of time, anointed with the holy Spirit without measure: he might truly say he was the Messiah, since all the characters of him in the books of the prophets, met in him; and all the miracles he was to work in proof of his Messiahship were wrought by him: as also that be was the Son of God, not by creation, as angels and men; nor by adoption, as saints; nor as man, or in the human nature, in which he was the son of man, and not the Son of God;

nor was he begotten as man, whereas he is called the only begotten Son, and the begotten of the Father; and was he the Son of God as man not the first, but the third person must be his Father;

besides, he was the Son of God before his incarnation: nor as mediator neither; be was the Son of God, antecedent to his office as mediator; his sonship is distinct from it, is an illustration of it, and what puts virtue into it; but he is so as God, as a divine person, by natural and eternal filiation; being begotten of the Father in the divine essence, and of the same nature; and having the same perfections with him, and in all things equal to him; and is the sense in which he always affirmed God to be his Father, and himself to be his Son.

For this phrase, "thou hast said", as answering to an affirmation, "I am"; see Gill on Mat 26:25. Now, though Christ had so fully answered to the adjuration, and so strongly affirmed himself to be the Messiah, the Son of God, yet he knew they would not believe; and therefore refers them to an after proof thereof, which whether they would or not, would oblige them to acknowledge the whole:

nevertheless, I say unto you, hereafter shall ye see the son of man, sitting at the right hand of power: the Vulgate Latin, and Munster's Hebrew Gospel, read "the power of God", as in Luk 22:69, though it is not absolutely necessary; for "power" designs God himself, who is all powerful; as appears by the creation of all things out of nothing, the upholding of all things in their being, the redemption of men, the conversion of sinners, and the preservation of his saints. In the Jewish writings (e), God is frequently called,

הגבורה, "the power": such a thing, say they, we have heard, הגבורה.

מפי, "from the mouth of power", or might; that is, from God himself: and so he is by the Grecians called δυναμις, "power" (f): by "the son of man", is meant Christ in the human nature; who then appeared at their bar as a mere man, in a very despicable form and condition, but hereafter they should see him in a more glorious one, and at "the right hand of God": a phrase expressive of his exaltation, above all creatures whatever: respect is had to the prophecy of him in Psa 110:1.

"Sitting" there, denotes his having done his work; and his continuance in his exalted state, until all enemies are subdued under him: and when he says they should "see" him, his meaning is not, that they should see him at the right hand of God with their bodily eyes, as Stephen did; but that they should, or at least might, see and know by the effects, that he was set down at the right hand of God; as by the pouring forth of the holy Spirit upon his disciples, on the day of pentecost; by the wonderful spread of his Gospel, and the success of it, notwithstanding all the opposition made by them, and others; and particularly, by the vengeance he should take on their nation, city, and temple; and which may be more especially designed in the next clause,

and coming in, the clouds of heaven. So Christ's coming to take vengeance on the Jewish nation, as it is often called the coming of the son of man, is described in this manner, Mat 24:27.

Though this may also be understood of Christ's second coming to judgment, at the last day; when as he went up to heaven in a cloud, he will return, and come also in the clouds of heaven; see Act 1:9 Rev 1:7, when he will be seen by the eyes of all, good and bad; and when this sanhedrim, before whom he now was, will see him also, and confess that he is Lord and Christ, and the Son of God. Though the former clause seems to have regard to what would quickly come to pass, and what they should soon observe, and be convinced of; for απ' αρτι, rendered "hereafter", may be translated "henceforwards"; or as it is in the Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions, "from this time"; meaning, that in a very little while, they should begin to see the effects of his being set down at the right hand of God, and which would be full proofs of it, and should see him come in the clouds of heaven, at the last day: reference seems to be had to Dan 7:13, where one like unto the son of man is said to come in the clouds of heaven, and which is understood of the Messiah by many, both of the ancient and modern Jews (g): with whom one of his names is "Anani" (h), which signifies "clouds",

(e) T. Bab. Maccot, fol. 24. 1. & Horayot, fol. 8. 1. Debarim Rabba, fol. 245. 4. Maimon. Hilch. Memarim, c. 5. sect. 15. & Melacim, c. 8. sect. 10. & alibi passim. (f) Sententiae Secundi, p. 21. Ed. Gale. (g) Zohar in Gert. fol. 85. 4. Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 13. fol. 209. 4. R. Jeshuah in Aben Ezra, in Dan. vii. 13. & Jarchi & Saadiah Gaon in loc. (h)Targum in 1 Chron. iii. 24. & Beckius in ib. Midrash Tillim apud Galatin. de arcan. Cathol. ver. l. 10. c. 1.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There’s also, about the word quickly, a feeling of suddenly and without warning. That ties into the parable of the ten virgins, who had no time to fill their lamps. It also ties in to coming like lightning flashes in the sky, that fast.

Hello Stunnedbygrace,

That reminds me of the phrase - at hand, and also shortly. It is important to consider those words and their fair use of meaning, SBG.

The reason I initially believed we would be gathered before that terrible time is because no one knows the day He will come and it will happen quickly.

That would be understandable, having gone through all of Matthew 24, it is an interesting study for sure, Jesus gives a warning for those in Judea, and also what is interesting to note as well as about the lighting. In your hometown when a lighting storm comes, you can see the lighting from that storm only in your town if it is only there in that part of your land. However in my hometown it could be just as sunny with no rain or cloud in sight.

But if, as some said, He only came after the terrible time of trouble coming on the whole earth, we could absolutely know when He was coming as we saw all the terrible things spoken of come to pass. We could pinpoint it very closely as to when He would return. So that’s how I saw that two different things/timeframes were being spoken of.

That is true, unfortunately the words have lost meaning over time, but as it may be people will believe what they want, however if a person is really seeking, they would try to go back and refer to as close to the textual meaning as one can get which is a choice, and also a difficulty for any of us as human beings because we do not even like to read the Bible as it is, however the spirit is willingly to do it, the flesh is weak. Thank you for brining up these things that you have seen from the scripture, such as the wheat and the tares, and the harvest.

And when I read more, through that lens, I saw many other things line up. For instance, two different reapings are spoken of. The first one sounds pleasant and the second one sounds horrific. So when I was confused about how some verses, including in the OT, seemed to firmly say He removes the righteous before wrath, but others seemed to say He removes the wicked and leaves in place the righteous, I was like, well which is it?? And the first reaping to remove the righteous prewrath and the second to remove the wicked after wrath and leave those who repent and physically survive it, made complete sense.

You have a sharp eye.

It’s the trying to mash it all together in one timeframe that creates the confusion.

For some yes, but the hardest thing about it is grabbing for all ends of the scope and spectrum and giving credit to each account that has to deal with these things, and also for a person to either accept or reject, what Jesus said here in Matthew 24:34

  • Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Some people are completely baffled by this line, and futurist will say that it applies to a future generation, and also it falls on the scales of history repeats itself, however you have Jesus say something also very clearly too.

Matthew 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

But we can look and find another example of that confusion when they wanted to insist all prophecy regarding Jesus had to happen at once, and even despite the humongous clue we are given along with hindsight, we STILL want to insist as they did then that it must be mashed all together!

It's all about having love and respect, and may you be encouraged to seek out the answers if you are so lead, friend.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
For some yes, but the hardest thing about it is grabbing for all ends of the scope and spectrum and giving credit to each account that has to deal with these things, and also for a person to either accept or reject, what Jesus said here in Matthew 24:34

  • Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Some people are completely baffled by this line, and futurist will say that it applies to a future generation, and also it falls on the scales of history repeats itself, however you have Jesus say something also very clearly too.

Matthew 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

See, that’s where a problem comes in, when you say if someone doesn’t understand prophecy exactly as you do, they have rejected what Jesus said. And you’re talking with people who HAVE read their entire Bible and ALL the prophecies in it, including the OT, which you haven’t read. So there could (just maybe) be the slight possibility that the prophecies you HAVENT yet read have some information in them that would shed some different light. Yet you want to teach what some other man teaches, not having even read all prophecy in the Bible. It’s a tad bit arrogant. You want to teach Bible prophecy to men without bothering to read all Bible prophecy…
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,911
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
See, that’s where a problem comes in, when you say if someone doesn’t understand prophecy exactly as you do, they have rejected what Jesus said. And you’re talking with people who HAVE read their entire Bible and ALL the prophecies in it, including the OT, which you haven’t read. So there could (just maybe) be the slight possibility that the prophecies you HAVENT yet read have some information in them that would shed some different light. Yet you want to teach what some other man teaches, not having even read all prophecy in the Bible. It’s a tad bit arrogant.
It’s much like the apprentice trying to instruct the journeyman :)

Or the teenager who knows more than his parents lol .