I agree with your first paragraph.
But I WILL have a private talk with Fra' Lorenzo, one day....
I also don't see how that scenario is possible if God is all-knowing.
I agree with everything else you've said.
ism envy.....LOL
Biblical Foreknowledge
- Thread starter Anthony D'Arienzo
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But I WILL have a private talk with Fra' Lorenzo, one day....
I also don't see how that scenario is possible if God is all-knowing.
I agree with everything else you've said.
ism envy.....LOL
Oh I agree with that 100%.
Judas wanted Jesus to rid Israel of the Romans.(Judah and Galilee).
I believe Judas just tried to help Jesus along to get on the good side of the powers that be...the Sanhedrin. I do believe we're pretty sure that this is the history.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
I'd say Christ was a disappointment to the entire Jewish establishment. It had not been that long before Christ that Alexander Jannaeus (Jewish king/ high priest) had hundreds of Pharisees executed before their families with the support of the Saducees. Joseph and Mary's parents could have witnessed the event. The Jews were looking for another Mattathias or Judas Maccabee. So each party was looking for a Christ, and when He came He failed to meet their desires.
The Hebrew religion (apart from Christ) was damned. It died in 70 AD (no Temple, no Hebrew religion). Judaism is not the religion that was practiced prior to the destruction of the Temple.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
To answer your questions God the Father and God the Son have clairvoyance to the future. But overall do not control it. This look to the future may not be 100% active, because God the Father and God the Son at times seem to be surprised at the outcome of things.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
God the Son. He is the chink in the armor of many. Not only are we told that Jesus marveled, but Jesus learn and grew....never ceasing to be God.
Yes,,,this is what the friar says.
I don't understand this very well....
Will be saying good night to all...
Jane_Doe22,
As I've said before, I'm just asking questions so I can better understand what other people believe and spend an afternoon pleasently chatting about God.
As I've said before, I'm just asking questions so I can better understand what other people believe and spend an afternoon pleasently chatting about God.
ok..well if you are not looking for what is biblical or true, post with JonC as he will pour out his thoughts on philosophy.
John Caldwell,
Last night we were told that there is no gospel, in the doctrines of Grace.
Now we are being told that there are things and all-knowing God has unknowable things!
No, what we find is people objecting to your departure from scripture and substituting your philosophical notions instead.
your lack of truthfulness has come into question,yes it has.
Anyone who corrects your error has a lack of love? No biblical love speaks the TRUTH, In love.
Living in sewage would be, to be a talebearer.
Last night we were told that there is no gospel, in the doctrines of Grace.
Now we are being told that there are things and all-knowing God has unknowable things!
No, what we find is people objecting to your departure from scripture and substituting your philosophical notions instead.
your lack of truthfulness has come into question,yes it has.
Anyone who corrects your error has a lack of love? No biblical love speaks the TRUTH, In love.
Living in sewage would be, to be a talebearer.
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I do talk with him, and everyone else willing to explain their beliefs and answer questions.
That includes trying to understand what you believe (along with everyone else).
I'm just not going to seek God's Truth by asking you (or any mortal), I seek God by ask God.
John Caldwell said: ↑
Aw. Pink';
The decrees of God relate to all future things without exception: whatever is done in time, was foreordained before time began.
God’s purpose was concerned with everything, whether great or small, whether good or evil, although with reference to the latter we must be careful to state that while Go
Sin could not proceed from a holy God by positive and direct creation, but only by decretive permission and negative action. God’s decree is as comprehensive as His government, extending to all creatures and all events. It was concerned about our life and death; about our state in time, and our state in eternity. As God works all things after the counsel of His own will, we learn from His works what His counsel is (was), as we judge of an architect’s plan by inspecting the building which was erected under his directions.
God did not merely decree to make man, place him upon the earth, and then leave him to his own uncontrolled guidance; instead, He fixedall the circumstances in the lot of individuals, and all the particulars which will comprise the history of the human race from its commencement to its close. He did not merely decree that general laws should be established for the government of the world, but He settled the application of those laws to all particular cases.
Our days are numbered, and so are the hairs of our heads. We may learn what is the extent of the Divine decrees from the dispensations of providence, in which they are executed. The care of Providence reaches to the most insignificant creatures, and the most minute events—the death of a sparrow, and the fall of a hair.
Let us now consider some of the properties of the Divine decrees. First, they are eternal . To suppose any of them to be made in time, is to suppose that some new occasion has occurred, some unforeseen event or combination of circumstances has arisen, which has induced the Most High to form a new resolution.
This would argue that the knowledge of the deity is limited, an that He is growing wiser in the progress of time—which would be horrible blasphemy. No man who believes that the Divine understanding is infinite, comprehending the past, the present, and the future, will ever assent to the erroneous doctrine of temporal decrees. God is not ignorant of future events which will be executed by human volitions;
He has foretold them in innumerable instances, and prophecy is but the manifestation of His eternal prescience. Scripture affirms that believers were chosen in Christ before the world began ( Ephesians 1:4), yea, that grace was “given” to them then ( 2 Timothy 1:9).
Aw. Pink';
The decrees of God relate to all future things without exception: whatever is done in time, was foreordained before time began.
God’s purpose was concerned with everything, whether great or small, whether good or evil, although with reference to the latter we must be careful to state that while Go
Sin could not proceed from a holy God by positive and direct creation, but only by decretive permission and negative action. God’s decree is as comprehensive as His government, extending to all creatures and all events. It was concerned about our life and death; about our state in time, and our state in eternity. As God works all things after the counsel of His own will, we learn from His works what His counsel is (was), as we judge of an architect’s plan by inspecting the building which was erected under his directions.
God did not merely decree to make man, place him upon the earth, and then leave him to his own uncontrolled guidance; instead, He fixedall the circumstances in the lot of individuals, and all the particulars which will comprise the history of the human race from its commencement to its close. He did not merely decree that general laws should be established for the government of the world, but He settled the application of those laws to all particular cases.
Our days are numbered, and so are the hairs of our heads. We may learn what is the extent of the Divine decrees from the dispensations of providence, in which they are executed. The care of Providence reaches to the most insignificant creatures, and the most minute events—the death of a sparrow, and the fall of a hair.
Let us now consider some of the properties of the Divine decrees. First, they are eternal . To suppose any of them to be made in time, is to suppose that some new occasion has occurred, some unforeseen event or combination of circumstances has arisen, which has induced the Most High to form a new resolution.
This would argue that the knowledge of the deity is limited, an that He is growing wiser in the progress of time—which would be horrible blasphemy. No man who believes that the Divine understanding is infinite, comprehending the past, the present, and the future, will ever assent to the erroneous doctrine of temporal decrees. God is not ignorant of future events which will be executed by human volitions;
He has foretold them in innumerable instances, and prophecy is but the manifestation of His eternal prescience. Scripture affirms that believers were chosen in Christ before the world began ( Ephesians 1:4), yea, that grace was “given” to them then ( 2 Timothy 1:9).
John Caldwell said: ↑
Some do not know the Biblical God
Aw.Pink;
Finally, attempt to assume and then contemplate the opposite. To deny the Divine decrees would be to predicate a world and all its concerns regulated by un designed chance or blind fate. Then what peace, what assurance, what comfort would there be for our poor hearts and minds? What refuge would there be to fly to in the hour of need and trial? None at all. There would be nothing better than the black darkness and abject horror of atheism. O my reader, how thankful should we be that everything is determined by infinite wisdom and goodness!
What praise and gratitude are due unto God for His Divine decrees. It is because of them that “we know that all things worktogether for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose” ( Romans 8:28). Well may we exclaim, “For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom he glory forever. Amen” ( Romans 11:36).
3. THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD Godis omniscient. He knows everything: everything possible, everything actual; all events, all creatures, God the past, the present and the future.
He is perfectly acquainted with every detail in the life of every being in heaven, in earth and in hell. “He knoweth what is in the darkness” ( Daniel 2:22). Nothing escapes Hs notice, nothing can be hidden from Him, nothing is forgotten by Him. Well may we say with the Psalmist, “Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it” ( <19D906> Psalm 139:6).
His knowledge is perfect. He never errs, never changes, never overlooks anything. “Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do” ( Hebrews 4:13).
Yes, such is the God with whom “we have to do!” “Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, Thou understandest my thoughts afaroff. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue but, lo, O Lord, Thou knowest it altogether” ( <19D902> Psalm 139:2-4).
Some do not know the Biblical God
Aw.Pink;
Finally, attempt to assume and then contemplate the opposite. To deny the Divine decrees would be to predicate a world and all its concerns regulated by un designed chance or blind fate. Then what peace, what assurance, what comfort would there be for our poor hearts and minds? What refuge would there be to fly to in the hour of need and trial? None at all. There would be nothing better than the black darkness and abject horror of atheism. O my reader, how thankful should we be that everything is determined by infinite wisdom and goodness!
What praise and gratitude are due unto God for His Divine decrees. It is because of them that “we know that all things worktogether for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose” ( Romans 8:28). Well may we exclaim, “For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom he glory forever. Amen” ( Romans 11:36).
3. THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD Godis omniscient. He knows everything: everything possible, everything actual; all events, all creatures, God the past, the present and the future.
He is perfectly acquainted with every detail in the life of every being in heaven, in earth and in hell. “He knoweth what is in the darkness” ( Daniel 2:22). Nothing escapes Hs notice, nothing can be hidden from Him, nothing is forgotten by Him. Well may we say with the Psalmist, “Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it” ( <19D906> Psalm 139:6).
His knowledge is perfect. He never errs, never changes, never overlooks anything. “Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do” ( Hebrews 4:13).
Yes, such is the God with whom “we have to do!” “Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, Thou understandest my thoughts afaroff. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue but, lo, O Lord, Thou knowest it altogether” ( <19D902> Psalm 139:2-4).
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
It's like peeling an onion layer by layer. The more layers that get peeled back, the bigger the stench. He is slowing revealing his true beliefs.
I didn't know he was an open theist.
John Caldwell said: ↑
Again, AW. Pink';
How solemn is this fact: nothing can be concealed from God! “For I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them”( Ezekiel 11:5).
Though He be invisible to us, we are not so to Him. Neither the darkness of night, the closest curtains, nor the deepest dungeon can hide any sinner from the eyes of Omniscience. The trees of the garden were not able to conceal our first parents. No human eye beheld Cain murder his brother, but his Maker witnessed his crime. Sarah might laugh derisively in the seclusion of her tent, yet was it heard by Jehovah. Achan stole a wedge of gold and carefully hid it in the earth, but God brought it to light. David was at much pains to cover up his wickedness, but ere long the all-seeing God sent one of His servants to say to him, “Thou art the man! And to writer and reader is also said, Be sure your sin will find you out” ( Numbers 32:23).
Men would strip Deity of His omniscience if they could—what a proof that “the carnal mind is enmity against God” ( Romans 8:7)! The wicked do as naturally hate this Divine perfection as much as they are naturally compelled to acknowledge it. They wish there might be no Witness of their sins, no Searcher of their hearts, no Judge of their deeds. They seek to banish such a God from their thoughts: “They consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness” ( Hosea 7:2).
How solemn is Psalm 90:8! Good reason has every Christ-rejecter for trembling before it: Thou hast set our iniquities before Thee, our secret sins in the light of Thy countenance.
But to the believer, the fact of God’s omniscience is a truth fraught with much comfort. In times of perplexity he says with Job, “But He knoweth the way that I take.” ( 23:10). It may be profoundly mysterious to me, quite incomprehensible to my friends, but “He knoweth!” In times of weariness and weakness believers assure themselves “He knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust” ( <19A314> Psalm 103:14).
In times of doubt and suspicion they appeal to this very attribute saying, “Search me , O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” ( <19D923> Psalm 139:23,24).
In time of sad failure, when our actions have belied our hearts, when our deeds have repudiated our devotion, and the searching question comes to us, “Lovest thou Me?;” we say, as Peter did, “Lord, Thou knowest all things; Thou knowest that I love Thee” ( John 21:17).
Here is encouragement to prayer. There is no cause for fearing that the petitions of the righteous will not be heard, or that their sighs and tears shall escape the notice of God, since He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. There is no danger of the individual saint being overlooked amidst the multitude of supplicants who daily and hourly present their various petitions, for an infinite Mind is as capable as paying the same attention to millions as if only one individual were seeking its attention.
So too the lack of appropriate language, the inability to give expression to the deepest longing of the soul, will not jeopardize our prayers, for “It shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear” ( Isaiah 65:24). “Great is our Lord, and of great power: His understanding is infinite”( <19E705> Psalm 147:5). God not only knows whatsoever has happened in the past in every part of His vast domains, and He is not only thoroughly acquainted with everything that is now transpiring throughout the entire universe, but He is also perfectly cognizant with every event, from the least to the greatest, that ever will happen in the ages to come. God’s knowledge of the future is as complete as is His knowledge of the past and the present, and that, because the future depends entirely upon Himself.
Were it in anywise possible for something to occur apart from either the direct agency or permission of God, then that something would be independent of Him, and He would at once cease to be Supreme.
Again, AW. Pink';
How solemn is this fact: nothing can be concealed from God! “For I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them”( Ezekiel 11:5).
Though He be invisible to us, we are not so to Him. Neither the darkness of night, the closest curtains, nor the deepest dungeon can hide any sinner from the eyes of Omniscience. The trees of the garden were not able to conceal our first parents. No human eye beheld Cain murder his brother, but his Maker witnessed his crime. Sarah might laugh derisively in the seclusion of her tent, yet was it heard by Jehovah. Achan stole a wedge of gold and carefully hid it in the earth, but God brought it to light. David was at much pains to cover up his wickedness, but ere long the all-seeing God sent one of His servants to say to him, “Thou art the man! And to writer and reader is also said, Be sure your sin will find you out” ( Numbers 32:23).
Men would strip Deity of His omniscience if they could—what a proof that “the carnal mind is enmity against God” ( Romans 8:7)! The wicked do as naturally hate this Divine perfection as much as they are naturally compelled to acknowledge it. They wish there might be no Witness of their sins, no Searcher of their hearts, no Judge of their deeds. They seek to banish such a God from their thoughts: “They consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness” ( Hosea 7:2).
How solemn is Psalm 90:8! Good reason has every Christ-rejecter for trembling before it: Thou hast set our iniquities before Thee, our secret sins in the light of Thy countenance.
But to the believer, the fact of God’s omniscience is a truth fraught with much comfort. In times of perplexity he says with Job, “But He knoweth the way that I take.” ( 23:10). It may be profoundly mysterious to me, quite incomprehensible to my friends, but “He knoweth!” In times of weariness and weakness believers assure themselves “He knoweth our frame; He remembereth that we are dust” ( <19A314> Psalm 103:14).
In times of doubt and suspicion they appeal to this very attribute saying, “Search me , O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” ( <19D923> Psalm 139:23,24).
In time of sad failure, when our actions have belied our hearts, when our deeds have repudiated our devotion, and the searching question comes to us, “Lovest thou Me?;” we say, as Peter did, “Lord, Thou knowest all things; Thou knowest that I love Thee” ( John 21:17).
Here is encouragement to prayer. There is no cause for fearing that the petitions of the righteous will not be heard, or that their sighs and tears shall escape the notice of God, since He knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. There is no danger of the individual saint being overlooked amidst the multitude of supplicants who daily and hourly present their various petitions, for an infinite Mind is as capable as paying the same attention to millions as if only one individual were seeking its attention.
So too the lack of appropriate language, the inability to give expression to the deepest longing of the soul, will not jeopardize our prayers, for “It shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear” ( Isaiah 65:24). “Great is our Lord, and of great power: His understanding is infinite”( <19E705> Psalm 147:5). God not only knows whatsoever has happened in the past in every part of His vast domains, and He is not only thoroughly acquainted with everything that is now transpiring throughout the entire universe, but He is also perfectly cognizant with every event, from the least to the greatest, that ever will happen in the ages to come. God’s knowledge of the future is as complete as is His knowledge of the past and the present, and that, because the future depends entirely upon Himself.
Were it in anywise possible for something to occur apart from either the direct agency or permission of God, then that something would be independent of Him, and He would at once cease to be Supreme.
John Caldwell
Well-Known Member
I think this is the most beneficial aspect of these forums. When we come to understand each others views we are able not only to respect those views but better understand the people who hold them. We may never agree on the issues, but we all cherish our beliefs and hold them for a reason.
I have been enjoying the conversations here and getting to know people to the extent possible in this venue.
When it comes to seeking truth, all of the truth we need has already been revealed. Wevturn to God, not the internet.
Totally!
I find that coming to better understand other people helps me better love them, get new reflections myself, and often find something to rejoice in with together.
It's like peeling an onion layer by layer. The more layers that get peeled back, the bigger the stench. He is slowing revealing his true beliefs.
Hello Brother,
When people depart from the truth, and indeed turn from it, they go into darkness.
No gospel in the five points???
A God who is not really all-knowing???
Agreeing with unbiblical ideas, In the name of "love"...
can you imagine Elijah agreeing with the prophets of Baal?
21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
And JonC said unto all the posters, You can continue to halt between two opinions! If the Lord is God that is okay, If Baal is God, that is okay too! In fact whatever you believe is okay! I believe it and do not believe it at the same time.
I have escaped traditional and historic beliefs, My ideas trump them all
When we come to understand each others views we are able not only to respect those views but better understand the people who hold them
It's a matter 1) letting the Spirit be the testifier/converter, not us. And 2) just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you're not off the hook for understanding and loving them.Hello Brother,
When people depart from the truth, and indeed turn from it, they go into darkness.
No gospel in the five points???
A God who is not really all-knowing???
Agreeing with unbiblical ideas, In the name of "love"...
can you imagine Elijah agreeing with the prophets of Baal?
21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
And JonC said unto all the posters, You can continue to halt between two opinions! If the Lord is God that is okay, If Baal is God, that is okay too! In fact whatever you believe is okay! I believe it and do not believe it at the same time.
I have escaped traditional and historic beliefs, My ideas trump them all
Jane_Doe22
Human wisdom might suggest this jane, but scripture does not. If a person holds error that will keep them out of the kingdom, it is not loving to withhold the truth from them.
It is nice to get to know someone and be friendly, the truth can offend. The goal is not to offend, but to offer a way of correction.
If my JW neighbor has the wrong God, and a works gospel he will perish. God uses people to bring truth, not enable the person to stay in sin.
A Dr. sees a patient has cancer, he does not joke and make long-range plans for entertainment and recreation with a seriously ill patient...he must inform the patient and lay out the truth for him. Not agree and say, you are just fine, I love you and do not want to upset you at all...I all about love.
Human wisdom might suggest this jane, but scripture does not. If a person holds error that will keep them out of the kingdom, it is not loving to withhold the truth from them.
It is nice to get to know someone and be friendly, the truth can offend. The goal is not to offend, but to offer a way of correction.
If my JW neighbor has the wrong God, and a works gospel he will perish. God uses people to bring truth, not enable the person to stay in sin.
A Dr. sees a patient has cancer, he does not joke and make long-range plans for entertainment and recreation with a seriously ill patient...he must inform the patient and lay out the truth for him. Not agree and say, you are just fine, I love you and do not want to upset you at all...I all about love.
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