Biblical Foreknowledge

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Is this you way of saying "no he doesn't have a choice in the matter, and I believe it's ok what he doesn't have a choice"?

Here we go...
FROM CHS;

God does not violate the human will when He saves a man.

No use of force, do you see this?

They are not converted against their will,

This again means they are forced against their will, do you see it?

but the will itself is converted.

They have a will that is bound by sin so they do not submit to God or His word. The Spirit converts the will
New birth, regeneration,


The Lord has a way of entering the heart--not with a crowbar, like a burglar.
But with a master-key, which he gently inserts in the lock, and the bolt flies back, the door opens, and he enters

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I do not mean to be cruel, but do you have trouble reading what is written?
Each post from the Acts8 post to here, you do not seem to comprehend what was posted?
you seem to need to rewrite the whole post, why is that?
Try and understand what is actually posted without adding your version.

I am trying to understand what you believe, which is extremely difficult because you 1) don't answer my questions directly if at all, 2) contradict yourself, 3) don't use your own words to explain your own believes, and 4) you repay me for my efforts by insulting me. It seems to me like you just don't have the answer to my questions.

If you would be more direct like when I ask "does he have a choice in the matter" and answer with "Yes because ___" or "No because ___", this would be much easier all around.

Here we go...
FROM CHS;

Example: no using your own words.

No use of force, do you see this?
This again means they are forced against their will, do you see it?
They have a will that is bound by sin so they do not submit to God or His word. The Spirit converts the will
New birth, regeneration,
The Lord has a way of entering the heart--not with a crowbar, like a burglar.
But with a master-key, which he gently inserts in the lock, and the bolt flies back, the door opens, and he enters

I asked if he has a choice in the matter You did not answer directly. This sideways answer seems to be "no, and it's ok that he does not". But when I post that snarled at me.

 

[Enoch111]

I am trying to understand what you believe...

Not sure why you wish to expend all that time and energy to trying to understand a Calvinist. You might want to simply study the Westminster Confession of Faith.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not sure why you wish to expend all that time and energy to trying to understand a Calvinist.

The same reason I spend time and energy trying to understand every other person. Same treatment for every person, regardless of the label attached to them.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Jane_Doe22,

I am trying to understand what you believe,

I believe we are to trust Jesus as Lord. I believe what we think is not important. I think what scripture explains to us is important.

which is extremely difficult because you 1) don't answer my questions directly if at all

,

I have given you solid answers based on scripture.

2) contradict yourself,

There was no contradiction. What you think was a contradiction is the parts you do not understand yet.
If you believe there is a contradiction, quote it directly.

3) don't use your own words to explain your own believes,

and

I type slow, and those I link are much smarter than I am.
Scripture is superior

4) you repay me for my efforts by insulting me.

Not at all. I was asking if you are not understanding what is posted. Your responses never seem to discuss the posts, you skip over what would help you.

It seems to me like you just don't have the answer to my questions.

I have answered with answers that will help you ,if you could only understand them.

If you would be more direct like when I ask "does he have a choice in the matter" and answer with "Yes because ___" or "No because ___", this would be much easier all around.

I do not do yes and no answers. Scripture is more full of meaning most times than a yes or no response

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane_Doe22,


I believe we are to trust Jesus as Lord. I believe what we think is not important. I think what scripture explains to us is important.

,

I have given you solid answers based on scripture.



There was no contradiction. What you think was a contradiction is the parts you do not understand yet.
If you believe there is a contradiction, quote it directly.

and

I type slow, and those I link are much smarter than I am.
Scripture is superior



Not at all. I was asking if you are not understanding what is posted. Your responses never seem to discuss the posts, you skip over what would help you.



I have answered with answers that will help you ,if you could only understand them.



I do not do yes and no answers. Scripture is more full of meaning most times than a yes or no response

My patience is really running out here.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

J.P.Boyce in His abstracts and principles offers this;
. This plan, or purpose, includes all things whatsoever that come to pass; not some things, but all things; not all things in general, but each thing in particular.

So interwoven are all these things, that the lack of purpose, as to any one, would involve that same lack as to multitudes of others, indeed as to every other connected in the slightest degree with the one not purposed.

This is evidently true as to all subsequent events; but it is equally so as to those that are antecedent, for these thus connected antecedent events have been established with efficient causative power, relative to all their effects. God knows the existence of this power; he has in fact ordained and bestowed it. He knows also what will be its effects. With this knowledge, God must, therefore, either allow them to act, because he purposes that the result shall follow, or he must hinder, or restrain, or accelerate their action because he would change the effect. In each case he purposes, in the one to effect, in the other to permit, and his purpose thus extends to all things. Any limitation of his purpose involves limitation of his knowledge, and this cannot be true of the omniscient God.

To such an extent is the force of this realized, that it is admitted by all, that, in the mechanical universe, and even in the control of the lower animals, this is true. But the free agency of man, and of other rational and moral agents, is supposed to prevent God's purposing, or willing, all things with reference to them. It is said that such purposing would take away that free agency, and consequent responsibility.

The Scriptures recognize both the sovereignty of God, and the free agency, and accountability of man. Consciousness assures us of the latter. The nature of God, as has just been shown, proves the former. The Bible makes no attempt to reconcile the two. Paul even declines to discuss the subject, saying, "Nay but, oh man, who art thou that repliest against God?" Rom. 9:20. The two facts are plainly revealed. They cannot be contradictory, they must be reconcilable. That we cannot point out the harmony between them is a proof, only of our ignorance, and limited capacity, and not that both are not true. It is certain, however, that, whatever may be the influences which God exercises, or permits, to secure the fulfilment of his purposes, he always acts in accordance with the nature, and especially with the laws of mind he has bestowed upon man. It is equally true, that his action is in full accord with that justice, and benevolence, which are such essential attributes of God himself.

Acting, however, upon the belief that the purpose of God, accomplishing his will in his rational creatures, is inconsistent with their free agency, several classes of theologians have presented theories in opposition to the scriptural doctrine of decrees above set forth.

 

[John Caldwell]

My patience is really running out here.

Jane,

Sometimes it is just better to leave things alone. I am not saying that some people are not worth the effort because this is not true.

But sometimes when dealing with indoctrinated people the illustration not to cast "pearls before swine" is applicable. The indoctrinated cannot discern their understanding/ theories from Scripture so the more you press the more aggresssive and insulting they will become. Often they do not know their beliefs enough to defend them (for example, can speak about nuclear fusion, but only from what other people have told me - not really from the position of adequate understanding).

Unless you just need your patience exercised I think it is better to leave it as "it is what it is" than to run out of the patience God has elected to bestow upon us (from the foundation of the earth).

 

[Jane_Doe22]

J.P.Boyce .

Is not you.

That's enough.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The Scriptural authority for the doctrine of decrees will appear from the following statements and references, gathered with slight modifications from Hodge's Outlines, pp, 205-213:

1. God's decrees are eternal. Acts 15:18; Eph. 1:4; 3:11; 1 Pet. 1:20; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Cor. 2:7.

2. They are immutable. Ps. 33:11; Isa. 46:9.

3. They comprehend all events.

(1.) The Scriptures assert this of the whole system in general embraced in the divine decrees. Dan. 4:34, 35; Acts 17:26; Eph 1:11.

(2.) They affirm the same of fortuitous events. Prov. 16:33; Matt. 10:29, 30.

(3.) Also of the free actions of men. Eph. 2:10, 11; Phil. 2:13.

(4.) Even the wicked actions of men. Acts 2:23; 4:27, 28; 13:29; 1 Pet. 2:8; Jude 4; Rev. 17:17. As to the history of Joseph, compare Gen. 37:28, with Gen. 45:7, 8, and Gen. 50:20. See also Ps. 17:13, 14; Isa. 10:5, 15.

4. The decrees of God are not conditional. Ps. 33:11; Prov. 19:21; Isa. 14:24, 27 ; 46:10; Rom. 9:11.

5. They are sovereign. Isa. 40:13, 14; Dan. 4:35; Matt. 11:25, 26; Rom. 9:11, 15-18; Eph. 1:5, 11.

6. They include the means. Eph. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2.

7. They determine the free actions of men. Acts 4:27, 28 ; Eph. 2:10.

8. God himself works in his people that faith and obedience which are called the conditions of salvation. Eph. 2:8 ; Phil. 2:13; 2 Tim. 2:25.

9. The decree renders the event certain. Matt. 16:21; Luke 18:31-33; 24:46; Acts 2:23; 13:29; 1 Cor. 11:19.

10. While God has decreed the free acts of men, the actors have been none the less responsible. Gen. 50:20; Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:27, 28.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Is not you.

That's enough.

He is a wonderful teacher however, much smarter than I am.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane,

Sometimes it is just better to leave things alone. I am not saying that some people are not worth the effort because this is not true.

But sometimes when dealing with indoctrinated people the illustration not to cast "pearls before swine" is applicable. The indoctrinated cannot discern their understanding/ theories from Scripture so the more you press the more aggresssive and insulting they will become. Often they do not know their beliefs enough to defend them (for example, can speak about nuclear fusion, but only from what other people have taught me, a basic knowledge - not really from the position of adequate understanding).

Unless you just need your patience exercised I think it is better to leave it as "it is what it is" than to run out of the patience God has elected to bestow upon us (from the foundation of the earth).

I would like to think that people actually have thought about their beliefs. Sometimes however, that is not the case. And I'm just done now.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

He is a wonderful teacher however, much smarter than I am.

And irrelevent to this conversation.

Anthony, I've tried with you. I've asked questions, and not received answers. And I just done with this.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

And irrelevent to this conversation.

Anthony, I've tried with you. I've asked questions, and not received answers. And I just done with this.

okay....have a good night.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Jane_Doe22,

I would like to think that people actually have thought about their beliefs.

Yes...I have thought about them. I am glad God has saved me by His grace. The verses I offer are meant to help people look into these things.

 

[John Caldwell]

I would like to think that people actually have thought about their beliefs. Sometimes however, that is not the case. And I'm just done now.

This is the danger of commentary. People today are biblically illiterate (they cannot form a biblical understanding so they adopt one).

And this is not all their fault. We have to learn to study Scripture (we cannot read it as a work written in a contemporary setting). More than that is as a whole we have lost our ability for critical thinking. We see this clearly in politics.

When I taught how to study I emphasized not even thinking about a referencing a commentary until you first had a thought out idea of what the passage means.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

This is the danger of commentary. People today are biblically illiterate (they cannot form a biblical understanding so they adopt one).

And this is not all their fault. We have to learn to study Scripture (we cannot read it as a work written in a contemporary setting). More than that is as a whole we have lost our ability for critical thinking. We see this clearly in politics.

When I taught how to study I emphasized not even thinking about a referencing a commentary until you first had a thought out idea of what t hff e passage means.

No one asked you for your off topic posts and foul comments. Start your own thread on the virtues of JonC and his wonderful ideas. They are not welcome here as you only come to cause trouble.

 

[Grailhunter]

"Grailhunter,


Nobody finds this in scripture as it is not there, and is not taught.



not sure what you mean
[QUOTE]One person finds love and compassion, another finds merciless condemnation and damnation.

both are in scripture



The love of God is only found in Christ



only wicked unbelievers find this, all the saints praise God for His righteous judgments




Have no idea what this profane statement is.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, not a cult....but it has to be mind control like a vise.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

both are in scripture



The love of God is only found in Christ



only wicked unbelievers find this, all the saints praise God for His righteous judgments




Have no idea what this profane statement is.

Like I said, not a cult....but it has to be mind control like a vise.[/QUOTE]
And as I said, no scripture to back up your post. You and jonC start your own thread and make all kind of accusations as you want. Your posts are also off topic...bye bye.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

okay....have a good night.

You're misunderstanding me: I'm done done. I've tried really hard and REALLY patiently to understand your beliefs, but.. well, no point repeating my reasons why.