No we don’t...we must be Born Again to enter into a relationship with God, when we have been birthed in the Spirit.
You can’t communicate with God, just by reading scripture...one must be Born of God...
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You can’t communicate with God, just by reading scripture...one must be Born of God...
No we aren’t...we must be Born Again..you can’t be taught how to be birthed in the Spirit by God...now prove God’s word wrong?
And it’s not “ saved” it’s Born Again then we are saved.
Not true....if you aren’t Born Again you will not see the Kingdom of God...now prove his word wrong.
If you don’t have the Spirit, you are not his.
You adding to the word of God..you are speaking in your own strength.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
So it’s all or nothing with you people?
No one said we can earn our salvation…or that being “good” will save anyone….but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to try and control our flesh and keep it from sinning. God hates sin….he will not tolerate any willful or deliberate action that transgresses his laws. Didn’t Israel learn this the hard way?
God never said he was going to save “good“ people….but he will save “obedient” ones. Obedience is all God has ever asked of anyone……There is no way to stop sinning in imperfect flesh, but learning to drive our own free will has its rewards.
Self control is a fruitage of God’s spirit, so if those who purport to have God’s spirit can’t control themselves….it shows that they are not who they claim to be, but are using scripture to find loopholes in God’s law to excuse themselves.
Not every sin incurred death, so it was the serious ones that we needed to avoid whilst the minor ones we may not even be aware of…..Jesus has those covered.
There are those who go too far either way….either too strict or too loose…..we have to strive to be balanced and keep our flesh under our control, asking God for help if we are struggling.
What about the people who listen to the OSAS believers who don’t put the brakes on sin only to find out that this disqualified them from any part in the Kingdom of God.?….what then?
I am still waiting for you to answer my other questions?
Oh really , please show scripture that proves this?
Because from what I can read , it’s manmade tripe...
In spirit form...which means what exactly...and where is it in scripture?
God said...you must be Born Again, please don’t keep, adding your tripe to, the word of God..you are going offon your own fairytale story again..
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Nonsense…..you have no big picture…..you can’t explain the scriptures you keep posting as if they need no explanation, and your exclusive club are fooling themselves if you think we can’t lose our salvation.
Some can’t lose it because they never had it….
But what is the point of explaining anything to someone with their fingers in their ears….all you hear is “you must be born again”….who is this addressing? Only the elect…..these are not the only ones saved….but enough now.
I’m done here…we can let Jesus be the judge.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
no, its all or nothing with God.
For ALL have sinned and fall short.
Thats gods standard. Not mine.
You said we must save ourselves by being good. Now your saying no one says we can earn our salvation
which one is it? Do you save yourself. Or do your not save yourself?
No. He said he would save the lost. he said he was not sent for the righteous but the sinner
- Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance
There are no minor sins in Gods eyes. Adam ate a peace of fruit. And look at what that so called minor sin caused. The fall of mankind, and the source of all evil int he world today.
Don’t water down the law..
What about what God said through John
He who sins has NEVER SEEN or KNOWN GOD
He who is born of God CAN NOT SIN. For he has been born of God
why would you teach a saved person they can live in sin, when they can’t. And why would you teach a person who lives in sin that they are saved when they are not?
Self righteousness always excuses sin.. and claims their sins are not that bad. They are not like these people who commit these sins over here.. They are better than them
when in reality, apart from grace, they are both condemned.
I have given you the big picture over and over and over again.
What is scripture saying here,as you are so familiar with the word.
Let’s discuss it together.
Ritajanice
Well-Known Member
Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You can;t lose eternal life
when jesus said you will never die, he did not stutter. Or I speak. He meant what he said.
If someone is not saved today, they were never saved, thats not just a saying, thats the truth.. A child of God is a child of God. They have the seal of the spirit. Which guarantees their salvation until the day of redemption.
Salvation can not be lost.
however, we can think we are saved when we are not. And walk away from God because we have not experienced its power. So we have no power over sin
like a dog, they return to their vomit, Because they remained dogs. They were never created into a new creature in christ.
Utter tripe.
Scripture God’s word..none of this is scripture..it’s tripe.
You have dodged every single question I have asked you?
Not every sin incurred death...says who?
We were born into sin, were we not?
Did we inherit Adams sin?
Why did God send Jesus to the Earth?
What was his mission?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The wages of sin is death, the gift of God is life.
Sin is sin is sin.
The law demanded perfection. If we stumbled in even the least of the commands, we were found guilty..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
They can‘t you can not birth yourself in God. So you can not un birth yourself.it has to be done by him
We’ve been set free from sin, only Jesus can set us free from sin....and only God can draw us to Jesus.
Direct quote:
"But please realise there are people here who do believe this, WE MUST WARN THEM."
Really good example of warning " Pharisee, hypocrite, ECT."
No one here is John the Baptist, nor Jesus Christ, not even sure if any can measure up !
Jesus, however did tell us how to walk.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus loved them by calling them out. You’re right, I am not those people. But I am told to act like those people. They called out the religious people. Who mocked gods grace. i am doing the same.
Thats all i did. You may not agree with the way i did it. And thats fine, we can disagree and i will not be angry or hate you, But I do not think i did wrong. i called a person out for teaching a legalistic self righteous gospel..
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
OK, how well do you listen……now you are putting words in my mouth and are addressing your own statement, not mine.
Who said anything about being “good”? You did. But is there a difference between being “good” and being a “Christian”? Shouldn’t all Christians by nature do the right thing when under temptation? Is fighting our sinful tendencies a waste of effort IYO?
If God knows full well that we sin every day without even knowing it…..is he going to condemn us for that? Is that the sin that is our fault? Jesus’ sacrifice covers those sins, but not the ones that under God’s law incurred the death penalty? The serious ones he will not forgive unless there is genuine repentance. Repentance means not repeating the same sin.
Who were “the lost” EG? They were the ones that the religious leaders considered unworthy of their time and consideration. They were sons of Abraham who were burdened down by the interpretation of the Law that was taught by the Pharisees. They were not “lost” because they wanted to be, but could not function in all good conscience when the leadership were blatant hypocrites, who put heavy loads on the people that they themselves would not carry. (Matt 23:4) This is why they found Jesus to be refreshing because he did not judge them as unworthy of his time, but taught them what was required to be in God’s good graces.….some made the decision to become his disciples and were baptized.
So we have the same situation again at this juncture when Christ is due to make his appearance as judge of all the earth….he will separate the “sheep from the goats”, like the “wheat from the weeds”.
He knows the difference between the two….but we can’t count on salvation until it is a reality……it’s something we have to wait for, but we have the assurance that if we keep God’s word and avoid sin, we can attain everlasting life.
Calling sinners to repentance is what made them “Christians”…..their repentance is what merited their forgiveness and their acceptance into the Christian congregation. You cannot throw that forgiveness back in Jesus’ face because of some notion that you can’t lose your salvation once you feel you have attained it. We are not “saved” until it happens. It’s not over till the fat lady sings and she hasn’t sung yet.
Never have, never would…..I see the OSAS believers doing that. Saying that you can sin and still retain a good standing with God because you can’t lose your salvation…that is not what the Bible says as you have all been shown.
I thought that was your belief…it isn’t mine. If you can’t lose your salvation because you think that eternal life means that you can’t, then you misunderstand what “eternal life” really is. The word translated as “eternal“ is “aiōnios”….which means….
- “without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
- without beginning
- without end, never to cease, everlasting”
What you call “eternal life” was never really “eternal” at all. There is a difference between “everlasting life” or “life without end” and “eternal life”. Only one Being in existence is eternal…and that is the Father, who has always existed and always will.
What humans can attain is “everlasting life” in immortality, granted to the elect upon their resurrection to heaven.…and also to those who pass the final test at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and his chosen ones, everlasting life is promised.
I never did…you are putting words in my mouth again.
Anyone who claims to be “born again”, and lives a sinful life is kidding themselves IMO.
I teach no such thing…..I simply disagree strongly with the OSAS belief…..you are welcome to it, but the one thing you will never be able to do is claim ignorance because someone didn’t call you out for claiming something to be the truth, when scripturally, it plainly isn’t.
But enough now….we can agree to disagree because there is no point in going round in circles.
The Holy Spirit teaches and reveals the meaning of Scripture to Christians the way Jesus would. John 14:26 reminds us: “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”
Online commentary.
ANSWER
First let’s define “Christian.” According to the Bible, a Christian is a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:26), one who has made Jesus Christ the Lord of his or her life and has been “born again” into the family of God (John 3:3). The very act of receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord is the ultimate spiritual enlightenment, because Jesus said, “I am the Light of the world” (John 8:12; 9:5). When we invite Him into our lives, He sends the Holy Spirit to dwell within our spirits (1 Corinthians 6:19). What was dead inside comes to life; what was dark becomes light. So a born-again Christian has already attained true spiritual enlightenment.
The term spiritual enlightenment usually has overtones of New Age and Eastern mysticism, tracing its roots to man-made religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, and Gnosticism. Teaching the goodness of the inner self, transcendentalism, or the worship of angels is contrary to Scripture (Romans 3:23; Colossians 2:18). God is the ultimate Spirit, and any search for “enlightenment” must lead to Him through His Son, or it is a false religion (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 45:5; John 14:6).
First let’s define “Christian.” According to the Bible, a Christian is a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:26), one who has made Jesus Christ the Lord of his or her life and has been “born again” into the family of God (John 3:3). The very act of receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord is the ultimate spiritual enlightenment, because Jesus said, “I am the Light of the world” (John 8:12; 9:5). When we invite Him into our lives, He sends the Holy Spirit to dwell within our spirits (1 Corinthians 6:19). What was dead inside comes to life; what was dark becomes light. So a born-again Christian has already attained true spiritual enlightenment.
The term spiritual enlightenment usually has overtones of New Age and Eastern mysticism, tracing its roots to man-made religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, and Gnosticism. Teaching the goodness of the inner self, transcendentalism, or the worship of angels is contrary to Scripture (Romans 3:23; Colossians 2:18). God is the ultimate Spirit, and any search for “enlightenment” must lead to Him through His Son, or it is a false religion (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 45:5; John 14:6).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
How much do you listen to yourself?
did you not say this?
Is not "our conduct in harmony with Christ’s teaching not the definition of being “Good”?
So please. stop with the false accusation I did something wrong..
lol. The wage of sin is death.. There are no good sins that we are ok and bad sins which again condemn us. And if there was, Is Jesus going to come back down and die for those sins, because if he did not. Those sins there will be no forgiveness. You are lost without hope if you commit even one of this sins.
The fact is, Moses said cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word of this law (see Deut 27: 26 and gal 3)
Even paul said whoever is under the law is under a curse. because of what Moses said. And James, the apostle said if we spend our whole lived keeping the whole law, yet STUMBLE in one point. we are guilty of all.
You should not try to teach the law if you do not understand it. And if you bring the law into the gospel like you are. You should not do that either..
once again, Stop watering down the law. and pumping your chest like the pharisee because you do not commit certain sins. Your guilty, I am guilty and apart from grace we would both be headed to outer darkness..
Have you studied in John 3 and 4?
I find it amazing, Jesus told Nicodemus, a pharisee, he was not good enough. He needed to be born again.
He also told the Samaritan woman, the sinner, You are not bad enough, Ask me and I will give you living water, flowing to eternal life.
Who are the lost? Jesus told this too.
Whoever believes is not condemned (Found, Sheep, Children of God)
Whoever does not believe is condemned already (Lost, Goats, Children of Satan)
thats it.. no need to add anything else. Jesus is clear.
I know you like to make long posts. No one really reads them, and if they do, they usually do not read it all.. so I will not make a long post. , so i will cut your post in parts.. I will respond to the rest later. I will have a busy morning.
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