Born Again = Not a Sinner

[Always Believing]

Good question, thanks. I personally am not sinning with a work of the flesh now, as no Christian ought to be. However, we are warned against being high-minded and forsaking the fear of the Lord by righteous boasting.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

And so, John warns us not to think we are above temptation, as though we no more have any sin on earth that can tempt us, so that the devil doesn't even bother to anymore. Such highmindedness would boast that we will not sin in the future.

Being that perfected in the mind and body will only be in the resurrection from the dead.

We have available to us all the divine power and grace of Christ that we need, to not be sinning and to continue without sinning, but because we are still in this mortal flesh, then we must always stay on guard against temptation from the devil.

I am not sinning now today, and I can continue in Jesus' righteousness tomorrow, but I don't take thought for it, nor boast of it, as though I have already arrived in the first resurrection of the blessed saints:

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.

If I got you right you are not doing the works of the flesh and sinning, and you know you don't have to anymore, but you will not definitively say you won't, because you believe that is pride. You will not say you will commit sinning, like I believe I will, but you won't so you won't sin again on earth in order to stay humble and dependent on God not to do it?

You are a Christian saint not doing the works of the flesh, and you believe in order to stay that way, you should not get proud and start boasting of it, but just take it one day at a time as the song goes.

And you also say that only when resurrected will anyone be able to say for sure they will never sin again? Why is that? Why not now? You don't have Jesus now like you will then?

What do you say of Jesus believers still sinning like me? Are we going to be in the resurrection? Don't worry about the last questions if you don't want to, because in one way it doesn't matter to me. I know what I believe and who I am trusting in, and how I am doing that, and I don't claim to be a Christian saint like you, and that doesn't mean you aren't. But I am interested in your take on it.

 

[robert derrick]

If I got you right you are not doing the works of the flesh and sinning, and you know you don't have to anymore, but you will not definitively say you won't, because you believe that is pride. You will not say you will commit sinning, like I believe I will, but you won't so you won't sin again on earth in order to stay humble and dependent on God not to do it?

Yes.

You are a Christian saint not doing the works of the flesh, and you believe in order to stay that way, you should not get proud and start boasting of it, but just take it one day at a time as the song goes.

Yes.

Don't worry about the last questions if you don't want to, because in one way it doesn't matter to me. I know what I believe and who I am trusting in, and how I am doing that, and I don't claim to be a Christian saint like you, and that doesn't mean you aren't. But I am interested in your take on it.

I have yet to meet someone so honest as you on this sight, and it means great things are in store for you, because in order to be the good ground, we must first be the honest ground:

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

What do you say of Jesus believers still sinning like me? Are we going to be in the resurrection?

I have only one question for you: do you believe while you are sinning with the devil against God, that you are still a saved and justified son of God, who will appear in the presence of the Lord, even if you physically die while committing the sin of fornication, drunkenness, adultery, robbery, or any other work of the flesh?

 

[mailmandan]

All legalists are "twice dead", if they are never born again.
So, your verse is not talking to the born again. Its talking to the damned, and that is all unbelievers, however, those who deny the Grace of God, and change it into "works" as you do, are the deadest of the dead.

Jude is not describing men who were born again/saved and lost their salvation. A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB reads "doubly dead."

Notice in Jude 12 that these trees will be "uprooted."

Notice in Matthew 15:13, Jesus said - Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be "uprooted."

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Behold]

Notice in Jude 12 that these trees will be "uprooted."

Jesus Himself is the "root of Jesse".
He is the True VINE...
If you "have no root", its because you were never born again INTO the Root, who is Jesus.

So, to be uprooted, would not be talking to anyone who is joined to the root, who is Christ.

"for they believed a little while", they "tasted the heavenly Gift'....= is NOT talking about a Born again Christian, who has "believed unto Salvation" and is confirmed as "ONE with God", "in Christ"....'Son/Daughter" of God. BORN AGAIN.

 

[Ezra]

"God made Jesus to become Sin" for them.
So...You have to understand that this has happened regarding all the Born again. = Jesus BECAME all their Sin.

HE KNEW NO SIN HE WAS SINNLESS 2nd Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. made him to be the sin sacrifice aka the payment of our sins... Christ had-has NO SIN

 

[robert derrick]

Jude is not describing men who were born again/saved and lost their salvation. A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB reads "doubly dead."

Notice in Jude 12 that these trees will be "uprooted."

Notice in Matthew 15:13, Jesus said - Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be "uprooted."

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Sorry to butt in here. For some reason I got your post in my email, and saw what was happening.

I just want to say, with all our past differences, I must admit that there are radicals in the OSAS community of Christians, that they would even try to call you a legalist twice dead, because you do exhort contending for the faith against spots appearing in the churches of God.

Scripture says we do despite to the Spirit of grace by not contending for the faith, and some radical is saying denying grace is contending for the faith, by calling that works to be saved by.

I.e. working against lies and heresies is now condemned as legalism.

This is what I have been guarding against with our own faith alone. It is the danger of isolating what we believe, from anything we do or don't do. Our own faith alone, and what we believe for ourselves, becomes a form of idolatry, where what we think that is all that matters to God and us.

Scripture then just becomes some puzzle to shape and reshape in our own image.

Such idolatry of what we think, results in condemning anyone that does not exactly agree with us. The reason that is, I have learned, is because we place our own souls and conscience entirely upon what we think and believe, so that we must attack anyone not agreeing with us in every detail. That is not contending for the faith of God, but is cult-like animosity against all others.

So, I agree with your contending for your faith in Jesus, against anything that you believe can corrupt it. I know that's what I do, and I learned that the hard way.

So keep up the good 'work'.

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.

Some zealots would say that Scripture is twice dead legalism, for even speaking of work in the same sentence as faith.

And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.

This of course would be cried out against as blaspheming the Spirit of grace, with the cursed word work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jude is not describing men who were born again/saved and lost their salvation. A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB reads "doubly dead."

Notice in Jude 12 that these trees will be "uprooted."

Notice in Matthew 15:13, Jesus said - Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be "uprooted."

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19)

In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

I believe Jude is clearly talking about those who were once saved and they lost it. A person is twice dead because…

#1. They were dead spiritually before coming to Christ.​

#2. They died spiritually a second time by falling for false doctrine that justifies the idea that you can sin and still be saved.​

They also were once saved prior because it says that they were plucked up by the roots. In the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13) (Luke 8), we learn that the seed is the Word of God. According to another parable in Matthew 13, we learn that Jesus is the sower of that seed.

In the Parable of the Sower, we see two fall away because they had no root. Root in what? The Scriptures (or the Communicated Word of God). One fell away due to persecution, and the other fell away due to the riches and cares of this life. They were once alive because they were growing plants and one was choked by thorns and the other could not grow further due to the stony ground. This means that their trust in God’s Word (like the Bible) was never solid and secure enough to get them through the hardships of their faith. But those who were plucked up by the roots like in Jude had a foundation and trust in God’s Word but they fell away on a more sick level buying into justifying sin with the thinking they are saved. They used to believe the Bible’s teaching on Conditional Salvation but then they later rejected it and were plucked up by the roots by buying into false doctrine of men to defend sin on some level (Claiming that the believer can never be perfect eventually in this life and he must sin again).

Titus 1:15
”…but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

Jude 1:4 speaks of these false believes who justify sin. It says, “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,…”

Jude 1:4 in the NIV says, “They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality…”

That’s exactly what the vast majority of Christianity today does. They either say Once Saved Always Saved or they say they are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross plus nothing else (Which means one can sin and still be saved on some level).

Many in the wide-gate popular version of Christianity who believe this way will be shocked come Judgment Day.

 

[Ezra]

I believe Jude is clearly talking about those who were once saved and they lost it. A person is twice dead because…

this will; never ever be finalized while on earth. both sides has good points . the op has some good points but his wording is off there is scripture that says we dont sin

 

[Bible Highlighter]

this will; never ever be finalized while on earth. both sides has good points . the op has some good points but his wording is off there is scripture that says we dont sin

I believed it is finalized amongst the true saints who follow Jesus throughout history and today. This is why they are able to warn those who are in error who justify sin. Many in Christianity will be shocked. This is what we read about in Matthew 7:22-23, and in Luke 13:24-28.

Luke 13:24 says strive to enter the straight gate. This is within the sphere of Christianity because….

#1. They said, “Lord, Lord, open unto us;” (Suggesting that they thought Jesus was their Lord).​

#2. They said, “We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.”​

Jesus said to these types of believers, “I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.” (Luke 13:27).

So these are obviously those many believers today who think they are slaves to their sin on some level. They are working iniquity or sin by such a statement. They don’t believe 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. When I mention the words of Jesus to most today from the sermon on the mount (like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etc.) they don’t believe our Lord’s words. They think they can sin and still be saved even though Jesus warned about how sin can cause a loss of our salvation (Unless of course we seek forgiveness with Jesus Christ and we forsake our sins).

When I talk with Christians today, they are not even concerned about striving to enter the straight gate. They would call Luke 13:24 as legalism or something.

 

[Ezra]

I believed it is finalized amongst the true saints who follow Jesus throughout history and today.

if truly saved yes we can be eternally secure . having said that the doctrine of can or ca not will never be settled . if you ever seen a .d.r suess video or read his books . there is one about the sneetches one had stars on their belly. they was accepted as the better of society . then those who had no stars was not accepted.
you have this today in church doctrine your not allowed to participate in service other than just sit in a pew and listen. if your a visiting preacher different than the church doctrine. your not recognized. nor will you be allowed to be in the pulpit.


one group teaches osas one group teaches osNas both can have true blue. but will not adhere to other doctrine

 

[mailmandan]

"for they believed a little while", they "tasted the heavenly Gift'....= is NOT talking about a Born again Christian, who has "believed unto Salvation" and is confirmed as "ONE with God", "in Christ"....'Son/Daughter" of God. BORN AGAIN.

In regards to Luke 8:13 (believe for a while) even though this shallow ground hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? I will explain the reasons.

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Yet his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.

Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? (Luke 8:6, 13) It doesn't. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe (mental assent) that "there is one God," but they do not believe unto salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.

In regards to tasting the heavenly gift and the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age in Hebrews 6:4-6, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Genuine believers do not merely 'taste' into one Spirit, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe Jude is clearly talking about those who were once saved and they lost it. A person is twice dead because…

#1. They were dead spiritually before coming to Christ.​

#2. They died spiritually a second time by falling for false doctrine that justifies the idea that you can sin and still be saved.​

They also were once saved prior because it says that they were plucked up by the roots. In the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13) (Luke 8), we learn that the seed is the Word of God. According to another parable in Matthew 13, we learn that Jesus is the sower of that seed.

In the Parable of the Sower, we see two fall away because they had no root. Root in what? The Scriptures (or the Communicated Word of God). One fell away due to persecution, and the other fell away due to the riches and cares of this life. They were once alive because they were growing plants and one was choked by thorns and the other could not grow further due to the stony ground. This means that their trust in God’s Word (like the Bible) was never solid and secure enough to get them through the hardships of their faith. But those who were plucked up by the roots like in Jude had a foundation and trust in God’s Word but they fell away on a more sick level buying into justifying sin with the thinking they are saved. They used to believe the Bible’s teaching on Conditional Salvation but then they later rejected it and were plucked up by the roots by buying into false doctrine of men to defend sin on some level (Claiming that the believer can never be perfect eventually in this life and he must sin again).

Titus 1:15
”…but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

Jude 1:4 speaks of these false believes who justify sin. It says, “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,…”

Jude 1:4 in the NIV says, “They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality…”

That’s exactly what the vast majority of Christianity today does. They either say Once Saved Always Saved or they say they are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross plus nothing else (Which means one can sin and still be saved on some level).

Many in the wide-gate popular version of Christianity who believe this way will be shocked come Judgment Day.

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord [b]God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How can these people have been saved?

 

[The Learner]

-

Reader..

To understand why a born again person has been made free from sin, is to first understand that "God made Jesus to become Sin" for them.
So...You have to understand that this has happened regarding all the Born again. = Jesus BECAME all their Sin.
This is why Paul teaches you that "the old man of Sin, is CRUCIFIED with CHRIST", and the born again are to "reckon him DEAD".

John does. And that is why he wrote this..

1 John 3:9 says that the born again cannot sin.

Paul does.. and that is why he wrote this..

Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.

================================================

Listen...

1) .Here is a part of the "sin" understanding..

Unbelievers, are "under the Law", and the LAW's Dominion is what defines you as a SINNER, and your DEEDS as "SIN">

The Born again, are "not under the law, but UNDER GRACE"...
This means that they exist in the Kingdom of God, "under GRACE".... and there is no LAW found there, or Commandments.
See, there is no Moses Law or 10 Commandments found in HEAVEN, as ... Does God need them?
Not quite.
So, because of this, there is no defining a deed as "Sin", regarding a born again person who literally exists here : "seated in HEAVENLY Places, IN Christ".
All the born again exist : "IN Christ".
Where is Christ?
= Saint, where He is, is where you are also, if you are born again.
And there is NO SIN FOUND THERE..

2.) Here is another part of the "sin" understanding..

Before Adam FELL, he was sinless, and RIGHTEOUS.
When Jesus came, as the 2nd ADAM.....>He provided righteousness that was His own, to all the born again, and BECAME their SIN...on The Cross.
See that?
That is the "divine Exchange"..
So, when you become "the righteousness of God in Christ"... having received "the GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS"... then you now EXIT as that for eternity.. = Born Again.
THis is why the Born again will meet God as FATHER, and never as eternal Judge.


3.) Here is another part of the "sin" understanding.

Paul, when speaking to the believers....refers to their carnal deeds as "works of the flesh". He does not call them SIN., and that is because they are not under the Law, and so their wrong deeds are not defined as sin...
HE then says.....>"misuse not the Grace of God... (the forgiveness for all your sin)... this LIBERTY...to >choose< to enjoy a work of the flesh".

See that "work of the flesh"? That is how "under GRACE" defines it.

But if you are not born again, then the LAW has dominion over you, and so that deed is defined by the Law as "SIN".

1 John 1:8-10
King James Version
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord [b]God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

How can these people have been saved?

It’s talking about how these ungodly men were ordained (or written before of old - Greek - see here) about how they would fall and turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (by the use of other suggestive words).

Written before (or ordained) of when?

Behold.

Jeremiah 23:1-2 says,
”Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.”

Jeremiah 23:11-14 says,
”For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD. And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.”

Now, were these evil doers locked into doing just evil only?

No. How do we know?

Let’s keep reading:

Jeremiah 23:22 says,
”But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.”

 

[Gospel Believer]

I got into this conversation very late....I thought that the following might be a helpful addition to this thread.....



At the beginning I said the Epistle of Jude could be called the Acts of the Apostates. This is because of the author’s focus on the false teachers. And remember they all claim to be part of the Church, even though their teachings are far from the Gospel.

Some of them say Jesus is not the way at all. They deny His deity, doubt the fact that He died for our sins and rose again, and dismiss His claim that you have to be born again. Instead, they say you have to find the way yourself, by living a good life, or learning secret knowledge, or joining their group.

Others say He’s not the only way. They teach there are many ways to God and as long as you’re sincere in what you believe you’ll find yours.

Still others say He’s not all the way. They say He made it possible for you to begin your journey to God, but you have to complete it by your own efforts, living a righteous life according to their standards.

These are all paths on the broad road with its wide gate. They lead to destruction because in the final analysis they make you the author of your own salvation. These are the acts of the apostates.

The Bible says Jesus is the the way, the only way, and He’s all the way. Only by trusting exclusively in His completed work on the cross can we hope to see the Kingdom. Faith in His substitutionary death is the only thing we can do that isn’t counted as work, and it alone is credited to us as righteousness (Romans 4:5) This is the narrow road with the small gate, because it makes Jesus the sole author of our salvation.

 

[Dustykitten]

-

Reader..

To understand why a born again person has been made free from sin, is to first understand that "God made Jesus to become Sin" for them.
So...You have to understand that this has happened regarding all the Born again. = Jesus BECAME all their Sin.
This is why Paul teaches you that "the old man of Sin, is CRUCIFIED with CHRIST", and the born again are to "reckon him DEAD".

John does. And that is why he wrote this..

1 John 3:9 says that the born again cannot sin.

Paul does.. and that is why he wrote this..

Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.

================================================

Listen...

1) .Here is a part of the "sin" understanding..

Unbelievers, are "under the Law", and the LAW's Dominion is what defines you as a SINNER, and your DEEDS as "SIN">

The Born again, are "not under the law, but UNDER GRACE"...
This means that they exist in the Kingdom of God, "under GRACE".... and there is no LAW found there, or Commandments.
See, there is no Moses Law or 10 Commandments found in HEAVEN, as ... Does God need them?
Not quite.
So, because of this, there is no defining a deed as "Sin", regarding a born again person who literally exists here : "seated in HEAVENLY Places, IN Christ".
All the born again exist : "IN Christ".
Where is Christ?
= Saint, where He is, is where you are also, if you are born again.
And there is NO SIN FOUND THERE..

2.) Here is another part of the "sin" understanding..

Before Adam FELL, he was sinless, and RIGHTEOUS.
When Jesus came, as the 2nd ADAM.....>He provided righteousness that was His own, to all the born again, and BECAME their SIN...on The Cross.
See that?
That is the "divine Exchange"..
So, when you become "the righteousness of God in Christ"... having received "the GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS"... then you now EXIT as that for eternity.. = Born Again.
THis is why the Born again will meet God as FATHER, and never as eternal Judge.


3.) Here is another part of the "sin" understanding.

Paul, when speaking to the believers....refers to their carnal deeds as "works of the flesh". He does not call them SIN., and that is because they are not under the Law, and so their wrong deeds are not defined as sin...
HE then says.....>"misuse not the Grace of God... (the forgiveness for all your sin)... this LIBERTY...to >choose< to enjoy a work of the flesh".

See that "work of the flesh"? That is how "under GRACE" defines it.

But if you are not born again, then the LAW has dominion over you, and so that deed is defined by the Law as "SIN".

But of course. If we are born sinners, of that natural mind that cannot understand the things of God because they are foolishness to us, and then holy spirit leads us to faith and God's grace Salvation, and we are re-born, we cannot be the sinner we were born as in our beginning.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“…If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed…” (John 8:31)

 

[mailmandan]

I got into this conversation very late....I thought that the following might be a helpful addition to this thread.....

At the beginning I said the Epistle of Jude could be called the Acts of the Apostates. This is because of the author’s focus on the false teachers. And remember they all claim to be part of the Church, even though their teachings are far from the Gospel.

Some of them say Jesus is not the way at all. They deny His deity, doubt the fact that He died for our sins and rose again, and dismiss His claim that you have to be born again. Instead, they say you have to find the way yourself, by living a good life, or learning secret knowledge, or joining their group.

Others say He’s not the only way. They teach there are many ways to God and as long as you’re sincere in what you believe you’ll find yours.

Still others say He’s not all the way. They say He made it possible for you to begin your journey to God, but you have to complete it by your own efforts, living a righteous life according to their standards.

These are all paths on the broad road with its wide gate. They lead to destruction because in the final analysis they make you the author of your own salvation. These are the acts of the apostates.

The Bible says Jesus is the the way, the only way, and He’s all the way. Only by trusting exclusively in His completed work on the cross can we hope to see the Kingdom. Faith in His substitutionary death is the only thing we can do that isn’t counted as work, and it alone is credited to us as righteousness (Romans 4:5) This is the narrow road with the small gate, because it makes Jesus the sole author of our salvation.

Amen and well said brother!