Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

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David in NJ

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All truth is important.
The ones that offend you , your remedy is omission.

I made it my business to know the bible and your pathetic doctrine of no verses.

That's the difference and why you can not debate me honestly.
Calling JESUS words "pathetic" is a great sin

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I Strongly Disagree With Your Preterist Claim Of The "Great Tribulation" Taking Place In The 1st Century

You will closely note that the "Great Tribulation" takes place in verse 21 seen below, you will closely note that "Immediately" after this "Great Tribulation" the literal, visible, second coming takes place, any reasonable person knows that this second coming is "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Conclusion: Reformed eschatology many claims are wrong, as it bends and twists the very clear scripture trying to establish 1st century fulfillment "Wrong"

Reformed Preterist False Claims:
1.) Jesus isn't returning literally and visibly as shown in verse 30 below, it all equates to a judgement of the Jews/Israel by Jesus from his throne in heaven

2.) The "Great Tribulation" has been taking place for 2,000 years and it will end at a future second coming

Matthew 24:21 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
He is not a preterist. Preterists don't claim that the great tribulation has been taking place for the past 2,000 years as he is claiming. They claim that it took place in 70 AD and it was just before Jesus came and the elect were gathered. Unlike preterists, he believes that Matthew 24:30 is talking about a literal and visible return of Jesus. Why are you so ignorant about what preterists believe? It seems like you think anyone who is not a hyper-futurist like you is a preterist.
 

rwb

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I Strongly Disagree With Your Preterist Claim Of The "Great Tribulation" Taking Place In The 1st Century

Sorry Truth7t7 I stopped reading your reply after reading the above. Since I am not Preterist (partial or full) and in fact fight against this unbiblical doctrine. If you desire a discussion from what I posted, "I would argue that "great tribulation" began when the Lord came to earth a man, for that is when He ushered in the Kingdom of God that can only be known and entered when one has been born again of the Spirit." The Lord came to earth a man with the Kingdom of God long before physical wrath of God was poured out on apostate Israel in 70 AD.
 

Truth7t7

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He is not a preterist. Preterists don't claim that the great tribulation has been taking place for the past 2,000 years as he is claiming. They claim that it took place in 70 AD and it was just before Jesus came and the elect were gathered. Unlike preterists, he believes that Matthew 24:30 is talking about a literal and visible return of Jesus. Why are you so ignorant about what preterists believe? It seems like you think anyone who is not a hyper-futurist like you is a preterist.
Yes believing and teaching that the "Great Tribulation" began in the 1st century is 100% a false preterist teaching, Daniel's AOD as seen in Matthew 24:15 (When Ye Therefore Shall See The Abomination Of Desolation) this "Starts" the Great Tribulation", and it didn't take place during the Lord's time on the earth or anytime after

You can't have a "Great Tribulation" taking place in the 1st century during the Lord's time on earth, with the elect running away from Judea to the mountains as seen in Matthew 24:16 for 2,000 years and waiting, a time so bad it won't be seen again on earth (No Nor Ever Shall Be) for 2,000 years and waiting, (LAUGHABLE)

The words as seen in Matthew 24:22 below (Except Those Day's Should Be Shortned, There Should Be No Flesh Saved: ) this doesn't represent a 2,000 year ongoing tribulation and waiting for a future second coming, who you trying to bamboozle, "Not Me"!

You will closely note that the "Great Tribulation" takes place in verse 21 seen below, you will closely note that "Immediately" after this "Great Tribulation" the "Future", literal, visible, second coming takes place, any reasonable person knows that this second coming is "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Conclusion: Reformed preterist eschatology's many claims are wrong, as it bends and twists the very clear scripture trying to establish 1st century fulfillment "Wrong"!

A Few Examples Of Reformed Preterist Eschatology's False Claims:

1.) Jesus isn't returning literally and visibly as shown in verse 30 below, it all equates to a judgement of the Jews/Israel by Jesus from his throne in heaven, using Roman Armies in 70AD Jerusalem's destruction as his agents for judgement

2.) The "Great Tribulation" has been taking place for 2,000 years and it will end at a future second coming of Jesus

Matthew 24:15-22KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
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Truth7t7

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Sorry Truth7t7 I stopped reading your reply after reading the above. Since I am not Preterist (partial or full) and in fact fight against this unbiblical doctrine. If you desire a discussion from what I posted, "I would argue that "great tribulation" began when the Lord came to earth a man, for that is when He ushered in the Kingdom of God that can only be known and entered when one has been born again of the Spirit." The Lord came to earth a man with the Kingdom of God long before physical wrath of God was poured out on apostate Israel in 70 AD.
Please Respond To Posr #564 Above
 

rwb

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Yes believing and teaching that the "Great Tribulation" began in the 1st century is 100% a false preterist teaching, Daniel's AOD as seen in Matthew 24:15 (When Ye Therefore Shall See The Abomination Of Desolation) "Starts" the Great Tribulation", and it didn't take place during the Lord's time on the earth or anytime after

Here you simply prove that you don't know what abomination of desolation means. Since that is the starting point for great tribulation you cannot understand great tribulation without knowing what Christ is referring to when He speaks of things His disciples shall have to endure as they/we proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world.

When you can give a biblical defense to prove, and not simply your unbiblical opinions as you have above, then perhaps we can discuss what the Bible tells us abomination of desolation that was the beginning of great tribulation for the disciples actually is???
 

Truth7t7

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He is not a preterist. Preterists don't claim that the great tribulation has been taking place for the past 2,000 years as he is claiming. They claim that it took place in 70 AD and it was just before Jesus came and the elect were gathered. Unlike preterists, he believes that Matthew 24:30 is talking about a literal and visible return of Jesus. Why are you so ignorant about what preterists believe? It seems like you think anyone who is not a hyper-futurist like you is a preterist.
Yes claiming that the "Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 began during the Lord's time on earth is 100% preterist, as it claims the "Beginning" has been fulfilled when it hasn't
 

Truth7t7

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Here you simply prove that you don't know what abomination of desolation means. Since that is the starting point for great tribulation you cannot understand great tribulation without knowing what Christ is referring to when He speaks of things His disciples shall have to endure as they/we proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world.

When you can give a biblical defense to prove, and not simply your unbiblical opinions as you have above, then perhaps we can discuss what the Bible tells us abomination of desolation that was the beginning of great tribulation for the disciples actually is???
Sorry but the world hasn't been experiencing the elect fleeing Judea/Jerusalem to the mountains for 2,000 years and waiting

The world nor Judea/Jerusalem has seen or experienced a time of trouble that will never be seen again in earth's history, "No Nor Ever Shall Be" a time to be shortened or "No Flesh Should Be Saved"

Yes believing and teaching that the "Great Tribulation" began in the 1st century when the Lord was upon this earth is 100% a false preterist teaching, Daniel's AOD as seen in Matthew 24:15 (When Ye Therefore Shall See The Abomination Of Desolation) this "Starts" the Great Tribulation", and it didn't take place during the Lord's time on the earth or anytime after

You can't have a "Great Tribulation" taking place in the 1st century during the Lord's time on earth, with the elect running away from Judea to the mountains as seen in Matthew 24:16 for 2,000 years and waiting, a time so bad it won't be seen again on earth (No Nor Ever Shall Be) for 2,000 years and waiting, (LAUGHABLE)

The words as seen in Matthew 24:22 below (Except Those Day's Should Be Shortned, There Should Be No Flesh Saved: ) this doesn't represent a 2,000 year ongoing tribulation and waiting for a future second coming, who you trying to bamboozle, "Not Me"!

You will closely note that the "Great Tribulation" takes place in verse 21 seen below, you will closely note that "Immediately" after this "Great Tribulation" the "Future", literal, visible, second coming takes place, any reasonable person knows that this second coming is "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Conclusion: Reformed preterist eschatology's many claims are wrong, as it bends and twists the very clear scripture trying to establish 1st century fulfillment "Wrong"!

A Few Examples Of Reformed Preterist Eschatology's False Claims:

1.) Jesus isn't returning literally and visibly as shown in verse 30 below, it all equates to a judgement of the Jews/Israel by Jesus from his throne in heaven, using Roman Armies in 70AD Jerusalem's destruction as his agents for judgement

2.) The "Great Tribulation" has been taking place for 2,000 years and it will end at a future second coming of Jesus

Matthew 24:15-22KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

Truth7t7

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Here you simply prove that you don't know what abomination of desolation means. Since that is the starting point for great tribulation you cannot understand great tribulation without knowing what Christ is referring to when He speaks of things His disciples shall have to endure as they/we proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world.

When you can give a biblical defense to prove, and not simply your unbiblical opinions as you have above, then perhaps we can discuss what the Bible tells us abomination of desolation that was the beginning of great tribulation for the disciples actually is???
Daniel is "Very Specific" on the abomination of desolation, overspending of abominations he shall make it desolate

Overspending abominations has absolutely nothing to do with preaching the gospel to the nations or persecutions as you suggest

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Yes believing and teaching that the "Great Tribulation" began in the 1st century is 100% a false preterist teaching,
You are not very bright. That's as nice as I can say it. I can tell you something 1,000 times and you still don't get it. You even posted a graphic in response to me once showing what preterists believe and none of it said anything about them believing that the great tribulation began in the 1st century and has lasted for 2,000 years so far. No, preterists believe that the great tribulation began and ended in 70 AD and that Jesus came after it ended in 70 AD and that the elect were gathered at that time in 70 AD and that "this generation" passed away in 70 AD. Neither he nor I believe all those things. Preterists are those who believe all of those things.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Yes claiming that the "Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 began during the Lord's time on earth is 100% preterist, as it claims the "Beginning" has been fulfilled when it hasn't
You believe that the prophecies regarding the first coming of Jesus were interpreted in the past and that is 100% preterist. So, we're all preterists according to the way you define preterism, which is not the way anyone else defines preterism.