Boycott the NFL

[tabletalk]

Its not even supposed to be a democratic process in the church, yet many of them do. Its not supposed to be up to every single church member to decide who becomes pastor. Its supposed to be up to the elders only. We see a similar set up even in heaven with God and his 24 elders. It won't be just the elders either so it seems, as the prophet Daniel in chapter 7 described his 'ministers' by the thousands that will be set up on judgement day. That's as far any democratic process will go under Gods rule, if that's what you even want to call it, because these are elders and ministers that God alone elects. Thankfully, neither your friend or Stranger with his prejudices will have a say in the matter.

Do you know of, or attend, a local church in which only the elders decide who becomes the pastor?

 

[Dcopymope]

Do you know of, or attend, a local church in which only the elders decide who becomes the pastor?

No, not that I recall.

 

[amadeus]

Its not even supposed to be a democratic process in the church, yet many of them do. Its not supposed to be up to every single church member to decide who becomes pastor. Its supposed to be up to the elders only. We see a similar set up even in heaven with God and his 24 elders. It won't be just the elders either so it seems, as the prophet Daniel in chapter 7 described his 'ministers' by the thousands that will be set up on judgement day. That's as far any democratic process will go under Gods rule, if that's what you even want to call it, because these are elders and ministers that God alone elects. Thankfully, neither your friend or Stranger with his prejudices will have a say in the matter.

Where I attend it is supposed to be up to God. My pastor has been the only pastor since it was founded long before I attended. But, some would like to see a program change. Maybe some are just waiting for him to die [now 92] so they can implement such a change. He says the only way he would ever leave is if God takes him out. Probably that is what will happen. I do not look forward to that day for more than one reason.

It might be a little like what the children of Israel were wanting when they were dissatisfied with Moses. But, I have not been in is one of these many places where they vote pastors out and in. That is really setting up your own program.

 

[Dcopymope]

Where I attend it is supposed to be up to God. My pastor has been the only pastor since it was founded long before I attended. But, some would like to see a program change. Maybe some are just waiting for him to die [now 92] so they can implement such a change. He says the only way he would ever leave is if God takes him out. Probably that is what will happen. I do not look forward to that day for more than one reason.

It might be a little like what the children of Israel were wanting when they were dissatisfied with Moses. But, I have not been in is one of these many places where they vote pastors out and in. That is really setting up your own program.

Perhaps when your pastor dies, if you really want it to be up to God, and you all believe yourselves to be truly led by the holy spirit, you should choose your new pastor accordingly as the apostles did when they chose Matthias to replace Judas in Acts 1. Its better to be prepared and have this discussion now among the elders of the church only instead of waiting for it to happen that could result in discord, because I guarantee you everybody will want to have a say in how the church is run as if they have a right, simply because they are members. This is what my sisters church has been kind of going through now ever since their pastor died. Your pastor should set things in order now before its too late. This should not be a decision made "by the people" as if this is some democracy.

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps when your pastor dies, if you really want it to be up to God, and you all believe yourselves to be truly led by the holy spirit, you should choose your new pastor accordingly as the apostles did when they chose Matthias to replace Judas in Acts 1. Its better to have this discussion now and prepared, among the elders of the church only instead of waiting for it to happen that could result in discord, because I guarantee you everybody will want to have a say in how the church is run as if they have a right, simply because they are members. This is what my sisters church has been kind of going through now ever since their pastor died. Your pastor should set things in order now before its too late.

He has set it up through the pastor of another assembly in another city located about 150 miles away. While our pastor lives it presents no problem, but without his input and presence, it is still likely to be problematic for the other pastor because the only person who wants the position is not qualified according to the present pastor. The alternative for the other pastor is to have one of his own ministers move to our city from theirs. That is not an easy to expect from anyone. We're praying about the situation.

 

[Dcopymope]

He has set it up through the pastor of another assembly in another city located about 150 miles away. While our pastor lives it presents no problem, but without his input and presence, it is still likely to be problematic for the other pastor because the only person who wants the position is not qualified according to the present pastor. The alternative for the other pastor is to have one of his own ministers move to our city from theirs. That is not an easy to expect from anyone. We're praying about the situation.

Well, that still sounds like a better arrangement than having the entirety of the church making any decision of the kind that they have no business making. If I was the pastor I would pick someone much closer to make the transition a lot easier, but whatever happens, as long as the flock is kept out of it, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[aspen]

See. Natives are racist too. Don't you agree? Or is that just their 'glorious culture'. Why don't they celebrate 'diversity' like everyone wants white people to do in the rest of the country?

Stranger

So you want life to be fair OR totally in your favor.

Must be rough being you

 

[aspen]

Personally I think white privilege is an excuse that minorities use when they don't want to take responsibility for their situation in life.

People use anything they can to their own advantage. It doesnt make make white privilege any less real

 

[Job]

People use anything they can to their own advantage. It doesnt make make white privilege any less real

What is white privilege? What privileges do whites have that blacks don't?

Saying "You'll know what it is when you lose it" is not an answer.

If you don't know what it is, just say so.

 

[Stranger]

No, they are not the only ones, but where are our efforts to be other than to be on the Lord's side?



I am glad that you fight for God. Any political position could be OK so long as it does not oppose God. Which party is God's? If I knew of one I would join it. My problem with man's politics is the same one I have with church politics. I have voted, but each time I do, it requires more prayer to decide first whether or not I should [vote at all] and then which way God wants me display my support.



It exists and always has existed when there were any differences to be observed with perceptions that men had. But, taking any side but God's is to run to our race, tribe, party, nation, co-operative, union, army, government is wherein one of the primary problems, [as I see it], lies. A Christian's "top motivator" should be God's will. We should never presume that our will always coincides exactly with His. Jesus taught us by example to pray and then ask for God's will rather than whatever our own would be. [Matt 26:36-44]



Because most of the time for most people it is. [I have been there and done that too many times myself to believe otherwise.] They go ahead without first checking with God or they pray that God be with them in their direction as they choose it for themselves without asking for waiting for His answer:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7




Which side was God on during this nation's Civil War? Probably the majority on each side believe that God was with them. Who is to decide what laws are contrary to God? The Republicans? The Democrats? The Blacks? The Whites? The Native Americans? You? Me? What is needed is more prayer and checking in with God for an answer before pushing ahead with we believed was right beforehand.

Remember after God's great victory over Jericho, how the comparitively tiny city of Ai defeated the Israelites who presumed they could go ahead on their own against such a little enemy. Joshua tore his clothes when he saw it and lay down on his face in anguish, but what did God do?

"And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?
Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff." Joshua 7"10-11

There was sin in the camp and they only knew of it after the defeat because they did not check in with God beforehand.



You may be right on Real Repentance, but should we presume that we know the mind of God and go ahead on our own course full steam ahead? Is not this what so many people have done so many times in the past? "God's not going to do it, so I will so ahead and do it myself". Is that what we then should say and do?



And what is it that is impossible for God? To fix this nations woes? He can and will if it needs to be done or if the people humble themselves. Only God can say whether or not it Needs to be done. While the humbling themselves may be unlikely should we forge ahead based on our own understanding alone?

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

And what is this "our own" of which you speak? Who is included in the antecedent for the pronoun, "our"? What gives them the precedence over anyone you would exclude? Why should only the voluntary immigrants be included? What about the those and their descendants brought her forcibly? What of those who were here already and living on the land before the great influx especially of the WASP [white, anglosaxon, protestant] from Europe?

Your position is, it is a choice between God or a political party. I don't choose between God and a political party, I choose the party that best defines the way I think God would have it. Being a conscientious objector serves neither the country or God. Not being able to vote who is in power is why Christians had to flee to this country. And you and others now won't vote to preserve the country as it originally was. When good men do nothing... And you want repentance.

Concerning 'real repentance', I am right. It is not going to happen in this country for the reasons I gave. When this country was Christian and mostly white, you could have times of repentance for the nation. Don't blame me for the country being white in its origin. That was God. Or do you believe it was not from God and not Christian. Europe was made Christian by God.

God won't fix the nations woes when people like you refuse to vote. He handed and established us a God fearing nation and we have turned it over to others. We have turned it over to other peoples, other races, other cultures who do not recognize God as God. The 'voluntary immigrants' as you call them, were the ones that established the country. White and Christian. Thus any others need to fit in or get out if they don't want to fit in. Those brought here forcibly need to abide by the laws and fit in.

Diversity and equality has destroyed the nation. But my how everyone loves to sing about diversity is our strength. It is not our strength. It is our destruction. So do you expect all the muslims, and buddhists, and atheists ,etc. etc., to repent and turn to God? It aint going to happen. If all the Christians repent, they are so outnumbered now that they no longer can control the unbelievers in the country. Thanks to you and yours who don't want to vote. The numbers are so tilted now that the Christian can't have his say even when they win the elections, as they did with Trump. We are now the hate mongers. How backwards it has become.

Before the white people in America it was almost all Indians. So, I don't know what people you are talking about.

I said all that to say this, this black movement in the NFL is nothing but black racism against the white race. They use the NFL as leverage to get their racism heard. They disrespect the flag, country, and anthem as black racist's. And all the while OJ goes free. I haven't heard any one protesting that by disrespecting the flag. Of course not. The NFL is polluted and not worth watching.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

@Stranger

I never said that I did not vote. I have not missed voting in a national election since I was first eligible, which has been quite a few elections ago now. You apparently disagree with much of what I believe... even when I have given biblical support for much of it. Never mind, for God is the one who gives the increase.

 

[Stranger]

So you want life to be fair OR totally in your favor.

Must be rough being you

I don't mind life being unfair. I mind the hypocritical minority races that want to call their racism culture, and mine hate. Call yourself what you are. Quit pretending.

Not at all.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

“I think we should just have separate and distinct conversations. Because when you merge it into the flag and the anthem, it’s lost,” Ryan said.

I agree with Paul Ryan here.

Making this protest about patriotism takes away from the fact that it started as a protest police brutality. Trump benefits from obscuring the issue. He is reframing police brutality into unpatriotic, spolied nfl players.

Heres another example of white privilege - defining the narrative and stacking deck - black people who ignore racial strife in order to keep the peace are blamed for abandoning their people; black people who speak up for equality are labeled as violent, unpatriotic, troublemakers.

 

[aspen]

I don't mind life being unfair. I mind the hypocritical minority races that want to call their racism culture, and mine hate. Call yourself what you are. Quit pretending.

Not at all.

Stranger

I hate ineqaulity. Justice is something Christians should strive for.

 

[Stranger]

“I think we should just have separate and distinct conversations. Because when you merge it into the flag and the anthem, it’s lost,” Ryan said.

I agree with Paul Ryan here.

Making this protest about patriotism takes away from the fact that it started as a protest police brutality. Trump benefits from obscuring the issue. He is reframing police brutality into unpatriotic, spolied nfl players.

Heres another example of white privilege - defining the narrative and stacking deck - black people who ignore racial strife in order to keep the peace are blamed for abandoning their people; black people who speak up for equality are labeled as violent, unpatriotic, troublemakers.

Blacks are the ones who merged the protest with patriotism. No one else. This is so like the the blacks. They start something but then if it isn't going as they hoped they never take responsibility. It is always someone else's fault. The black players could have protested apart from the NFL. And they didn't have to make it a disrespect, as they did, towards the flag. But they did. Why, because they do.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I hate uneqaulity. Justice is something Christians should strive for.

Good then you hate Affirmative Action, correct?

Stranger

 

[aspen]

What is white privilege? What privileges do whites have that blacks don't?

Saying "You'll know what it is when you lose it" is not an answer.

If you don't know what it is, just say so.

Ive already given several examples

1. White people are considered innocent until proven guilty - people of color are not.
2. White people are given the benefit of the doubt - people of color are not.
3. White people do not have to think about their race - people of color have to think about it all the time
4. White people benefit from social norms - people of color have to fit into social norms
5. White people are generally not feared, people of color are feared
6. White people are generally ignored by law enforcement (unless they are homeless or mentally ill) people of color are considered suspects at large.
7. White people are considered to be competent and hard working; people of color are considered to be uneducated, poor communicators, and lazy.
8. White people would be hired and admitted to colleges before people of color if it was not illegal to discriminate because people of color are considered inferior workers and students according to Cultural norms and tests created by white people for white people.

 

[aspen]

Good then you hate Affirmative Action, correct?

Stranger

I wish there was a better system than affirmative action, but without it, white people would hire white people and white people would admit white people into universities.

 

[aspen]

Blacks are the ones who merged the protest with patriotism. No one else. This is so like the the blacks. They start something but then if it isn't going as they hoped they never take responsibility. It is always someone else's fault. The black players could have protested apart from the NFL. And they didn't have to make it a disrespect, as they did, towards the flag. But they did. Why, because they do.

Stranger

Black people are refusing to stand for the anthem to protest police brutality. It is a clear and simple protest.

 

[Stranger]

I wish there was a better system than affirmative action, but without it, white people would hire white people and white people would admit white people into universities.

See. You said you were for equality. But your not. Your for what benefits your race. Affirmative Action is not equality. It is preferential treatment. And that is what you and blacks want. Preferential treatment.

I dont mind your racism. I mind your saying on one hand you are for equality, but then on the other hand you are not. Your a racist as much as I or anyone else.

But at this stage, you and others are also a hypocrite. You see only the white man as a racist.

Stranger