BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

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brakelite

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The differences in Protestantism go FAR BEYOND just the "non-essentials" .
Who said anything about non essential???

And, as usual - your abject ignorance of ALL things Catholic causes you to write an idiotic response such as this . . .
I understand Catholicism far better than you want to let on which is why you haven't actually addressed the issue but skirted around it by throwing a wild disconnected Roundhouse swing that contacted thin air.
 

GodsGrace

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I think this is a very interesting point to consider....

If I am spreading a falsehood that I know is false, am I a liar?
YES.

If I am spreading a falsehood that I believe to be true, am I a liar?
NO.

What is the difference? In my opinion both are lying.. One knowingly and one unknowingly...
You're color blind.
You're wearing an orange shirt.
Your wife tells you it's red.

You write a letter to a friend and tell him the shirt you're wearing is red.
Are you lying?

Is the one who does so unknowingly culpable?
You are not held responsible for unknowingly sinning.
You cannot even CONFESS a sin you didn't know you commited !
 

GodsGrace

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No - the FIRST rule is to state the facts.
The opinion of the audience is irrelevant.
The OPINION OF THE AUDIENCE IS IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What are debates for anyway if not to convince the audience???????
 

GodsGrace

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On some matters yes. But I think we, or at least protestants, agree on more points that what we disagree on.


No. Superficially yes. But a deeper understanding of what Catholic thinking attributes to certain scriptures reveals how their doctrines are deceptive. I suggest you read some of the more in depth observations of the written documents that resulted from the agreement between Lutherans and Catholics from about ten years ago. Some of the more incisive criticisms of those documents reveal how truly distant Catholic thinking is from true biblical Christianity, and how far away from Luther today's Lutherans have taken with regards understanding the real foundations of the Catholic mindset... Especially with regards the gospel and the meaning of faith and works... Grace... And how salvation is acquired.


Only in as much as what the magisterium teaches.
A Catholic does not read scripture to learn what is truth. A Catholic does not read scripture to learn doctrine. Truth and doctrine comes from only approved church sources... And the Bible isn't one of them.

I'm not here to protect the CC.
I agree that most catholics do not read the bible.
Those that do agree with the magesterum anyway.
They can prove purgatory from the bible...
They can prove praying to saints from the bible in a book we don't use.
They can prove we should confess our sins to a priest.
What else?

I really can't have this discussion.

I've had to read many a catholic doctrine by popes and don't care to do so anymore.

You're talking about the agreement between Lutherans and Catholics on Justification.

Catholics agreed to the meaning...then they posted a P.S. down at the bottom.

What I CAN tell you is that catholics DO believe that we are saved by FAITH ONLY...but right on the heels of that comes progressive justification, what we call sanctification...and then works are necessary because we're called to do good deeds.

I happen to agree with this.

Then we have the problem of what the CCC states and what is ACTUALLY TAUGHT.
The two do not go together anymore. Priests are more at liberty to declare what they really believe..they don't all believe the CCC. Of course, this depends on the bishop.
 

BreadOfLife

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Who said anything about non essential???

I understand Catholicism far better than you want to let on which is why you haven't actually addressed the issue but skirted around it by throwing a wild disconnected Roundhouse swing that contacted thin air.
WRONG.
Your last post simply solidifies how little you know about the Catholic faith.

You claim that we don't read Scripture to learn about doctrine - which is flat-out horse manure.
ALL Catholic doctrine is supported with Scriptural references.

It's blindingly clear that you've never cracked open a Catechism.
 

Philip James

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You are not held responsible for unknowingly sinning.
You cannot even CONFESS a sin you didn't know you commited

GG,

Not held responsible?

Only by the mercy of God.. ' Father forgive them they dont know what they do'

"If I am spreading a falsehood that I believe to be true, am I a liar?
NO."

I agee , they are not 'liars' but are spreading lies just the same...

Truth is objective. Whether we believe something to be true is immaterial as to whether something is true or not...

Consider, did man walk on the moon?
This is either true or not true regardless of what I belive.. If he did, and i (not believing it) attest that he did not, then I am promulgating an untruth (a lie)...

Peace be with you!
 

BreadOfLife

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The OPINION OF THE AUDIENCE IS IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What are debates for anyway if not to convince the audience???????
The opinion of the audience is irrelevant if the truth is not being presented.

If alkl you have are lies being exchanged - then the opinion of the audience is based on nothing.
FACTS the the most important element in a debate.
 
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GodsGrace

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GG,

Not held responsible?

Only by the mercy of God.. ' Father forgive them they dont know what they do'

"If I am spreading a falsehood that I b0elieve to be true, am I a liar?
NO."

I agee , they are not 'liars' but are spreading lies just the same...

Truth is objective. Whether we believe something to be true is immaterial as to whether something is true or not...

Consider, did man walk on the moon?
This is either true or not true regardless of what I belive.. If he did, and i (not believing it) attest that he did not, then I am promulgating an untruth (a lie)...

Peace be with you!
Well then BreadofLife is correct in calling us liars.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well then BreadofLife is correct in calling us liars.
No YOU are incorrect in falsely accusing me of "calling" you a liar.

If you can't be honest - then you really shouldn't post . . .
 

Helen

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GOOD ADVICE:
Matt. 18:15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Furthermore, we CAN and SHOULD hold our "bretheren" accountable BOTH ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN:

Matt. 18:18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Some say we're to "turn the other cheek", but that's when we're assailed by unbelievers. When we're assailed by "believers" we're to confront them and hold them accountable exactly as @Taken is attempting to do with @BreadOfLife!

Bobby Jo


So, when you are in "the thick of it" on some thread...can I quote this post to you? ;):p:D
 
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JohnPaul

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If he does, it will just turn into a nasty, unproductive thread. As far as BOL is concerned ALL CRITICS OF THE RCC are liars. More precisely clueless liars. But that also applies to Pope Francis.
I’ve never liked to call anyone’s doctrine a lie, it’s up to each individual and their choice and feeling in belief in God.
 
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GodsGrace

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BAD ADVICE!

GOOD ADVICE:
Matt. 18:15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Furthermore, we CAN and SHOULD hold our "bretheren" accountable BOTH ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN:

Matt. 18:18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Some say we're to "turn the other cheek", but that's when we're assailed by unbelievers. When we're assailed by "believers" we're to confront them and hold them accountable exactly as @Taken is attempting to do with @BreadOfLife!

Bobby Jo
Turn the other cheek doesn't mean what 95% of Christians think it does.
Look it up.
 
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John Caldwell

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BreadOfLife...has CLAIMED, to have personally witnessed Taken LYING on this forum...

BOL...PROVE YOUR CLAIM...

QUOTE ANY of Taken's "SUPPOSED" LIES that you have CLAIMED BOL...

Glory to God,
Taken
Taken,

I’m going to offer some unsolicited advice (take what is good, if anything, and ignore the rest).

I have a group of bullies who have followed me for some time now being abusive and lying about me. These people present themselves as Christians and while they may be saved I am not sure that “Christian” is a word I’d be comfortable using to describe these people.

Christ died for them and while I was yet a sinner He died for me. I have no grounds to attack them in return. So I don’t. They continue their agenda while I refuse to engage their sinfulness.

I do not know you or the other member, so I cannot comment on that situation. But sometimes it is better just to let people be who they are. Christians who read remarks can tell who is one of them and who is not. We do not have to even address their activities.

1 John 4:19-21
19 We love, because He first loved us.
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.


“The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.

― G.K. Chesterton
 
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GodsGrace

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I’ve never liked to call anyone’s doctrine a lie, it’s up to each individual and their choice and feeling in belief in God.
The best post on here so far.
smile.gif
 

Enoch111

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I’ve never liked to call anyone’s doctrine a lie, it’s up to each individual and their choice and feeling in belief in God.
I believe you have misunderstood what I said. As far as BOL is concerned, any criticism of the RCC is a lie (no matter how true and factual).

As to calling other's doctrines lies, whether you wish to call them that or not, the fact remains that ALL FALSE DOCTRINES ARE LIES. Now please note what the apostle John says: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)
 

GodsGrace

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I believe you have misunderstood what I said. As far as BOL is concerned, any criticism of the RCC is a lie (no matter how true and factual).

As to calling other's doctrines lies, whether you wish to call them that or not, the fact remains that ALL FALSE DOCTRINES ARE LIES. Now please note what the apostle John says: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)
Who said Jesus is the Anti-Christ?
HOW do YOU know which doctrines are false?
 

Miss Hepburn

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Thank you for your kind words.
I am not going to BOL privately to ACCUSE him.
I am not publically speaking for BOL.
I am not publically calling BOL a LIAR for his beliefs.
I am publically giving him opportunity to publically verify his public claims AGAINST me.
God Bless,
Taken
Well, I am going to say publicly I am sorry you were called a liar in public...doesn't feel good.
Who comes here for that kind of nonsense.
I was called out for trolling by shnarkle. *eyeroll*
 
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