By grace through faith

[Prentis]

Hi all!

I was discussing what grace is on another forum and thought it would be interesting to bring the topic here.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

This verse is often used to say that grace is 'unmerited favor.' I would like to challenge that, and give a biblical definition. Grace is indeed unmerited favor in the sense that it is given as a free gift. But the grace itself is not unmerited favor. Let me explain.

If a man give a man money for NOTHING, that's an 'unmerited favor' to him, in a carnal sense, but money in itself is not unmerited favor. Rather, the unmerited favor is the fact he received it for nothing. Money is still money. And so it is with grace, the power of God.

So grace, then, is the power of God given us that, by faith (having faith and being faithfull) we can be conformed to Christ.

 

[Prentis]

Firstly, to the general argument that grace is meant as simply and only un merited favor, here is why it cannot be so. Grace cannot be merely unmerited favor, otherwise, unmerited favor labors, does that make any sense?

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

The unmerited favor labored????? Grace is what empowers man to respond to the call of God.

2 Corinthians 8:7
But as you abound in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us—see that you abound in this grace also.

Abound in unmerited favor????? And yet the Lord says favor is deceitfull, and he is no respecter of persons.

If we are to abound in this grace, and this grace labors in us, it is then the power of God in us, both to will and to do. (Phil. 2:13)

 

[Prentis]

So when it says 'by grace you have been saved through faith', it means that we receive grace, each the measure that God decides, and are judged according to our faith and faithfulness WITH the grace we have received.

We are then justified by being faithfull with the grace we have received! Thus, salvation is not according to how much grace you receive, but according to whether you are faithful with whatever you have received, making the saying true:

"To whom much is given, much is expected"

 

[veteran]

Looks like you're kind of debating youself over that one.

The unmerited favor expression simply means the reception of something you did not earn. The favor part is about it including the status of being IN God's Grace, and thus being given eternal life.

The principle of 'money' most definitely IS involved in the idea per God's Word. The idea of a 'spiritual' price is involved, for that's what Christ Jesus did upon His cross, paid the price, bought those who would believe on The Father through His Blood. This is why Apostle Paul used the bought and price idea in 1 Cor.6 & 7; and Peter in 2 Pet.2. The origin of the idea is from the Old Testament idea of the 'redeemer', and the prophecy of the thirty pieces of silver per Zech.11.

 

[Prentis]

Yes. Only grace might first be received as an umerited favor, one has to become worthy of it.

The servant must either be or become worthy of the talent by the time of the judgment, or it will be taken away from him.

 

[aspen]

Grace is not a substance - it cannot be quantified. Instead, it is a favor from God given to everyone. The very air I breath everyday is a grace from God - we forget how vulnerable we are to death / annihilation because we experience the grace of God in predictable ways, everyday.

It is always God's grace that calls out to the very faith instilled within us, by His grace! He calls us - we lost His phone number somewhere in the Garden.

 

[jiggyfly]

So when it says 'by grace you have been saved through faith', it means that we receive grace, each the measure that God decides, and are judged according to our faith and faithfulness WITH the grace we have received.

We are then justified by being faithfull with the grace we have received! Thus, salvation is not according to how much grace you receive, but according to whether you are faithful with whatever you have received, making the saying true:

"To whom much is given, much is expected"

But where does faith come from?

 

[Prentis]

Hey jiggyfly! Not sure what you're trying to get to?

By hearing, I would say, though I also think after that there are many ways our faith may be built and increased.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hey jiggyfly! Not sure what you're trying to get to?

By hearing, I would say, though I also think after that there are many ways our faith may be built and increased.

Any and everything good and of spiritual value that we have comes from God and is grown and matured by Him. Faith is one of the spiritual gifts and is also the fruit of the Spirit.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 12:3

 

[Prentis]

I agree, God gives us a measure of faith.

But what we do with it matters. Do we exercise that faith? As Paul said to Timothy, 'Stir up the gift that is within us'.

Galatians 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

In other words, we have the Spirit, and we are made alive in the Spirit, we must now also walk in the Spirit. God has given us a free tool; the power to overcome. How are we going to use that tool? We have been given much, and much will be expected of us. If we sit on our shovel, so to speak, the Lord will say 'Where are my dues? Tie him hand a foot and throw him into outer darkness.'

 

[Jake]

There are so many instances in the Bible that tell us we are responsible for the faith God has given us, He grows it, yet we exercise it. Jesus told some people, "you of little faith, why do you doubt", yet others He told, "you are healed because of your faith".

So it is what we do with our faith and with the grace He has given us, we are responsible to utilize both through obedience and love for Him. We are accountable to Him for what He has given to us.

 

[Prentis]

There are so many instances in the Bible that tell us we are responsible for the faith God has given us, He grows it, yet we exercise it. Jesus told some people, "you of little faith, why do you doubt", yet others He told, "you are healed because of your faith".

So it is what we do with our faith and with the grace He has given us, we are responsible to utilize both through obedience and love for Him. We are accountable to Him for what He has given to us.

Amen!

I was doing a study this morning with my (biological) sister, and we stumbled on the subject of the woman being saved in child-bearing. Here's what we got.

The woman represents the church, as the church is the Lord's bride. And the church is to bear Christ. Now when we come to Christ in true repentance and are born again, we receive the seed of Christ. We must then labor and travail, that Christ might be born in us, and brought forth.

Thus the church's salvation is not in receiving the seed, but in bringing it forth and giving birth to Christ. That means it becomes like him, and reflects his glory, having him in her.

Christendom has confused this issue today thinking we are saved by receiving the seed, when the reality is that, as it is with the woman, we are saved when we bring the seed to fruitition, to form Christ in us!

 

[jiggyfly]

Amen!

I was doing a study this morning with my (biological) sister, and we stumbled on the subject of the woman being saved in child-bearing. Here's what we got.

The woman represents the church, as the church is the Lord's bride. And the church is to bear Christ. Now when we come to Christ in true repentance and are born again, we receive the seed of Christ. We must then labor and travail, that Christ might be born in us, and brought forth.

Thus the church's salvation is not in receiving the seed, but in bringing it forth and giving birth to Christ. That means it becomes like him, and reflects his glory, having him in her.

Christendom has confused this issue today thinking we are saved by receiving the seed, when the reality is that, as it is with the woman, we are saved when we bring the seed to fruitition, to form Christ in us!

Got any scripture to support your thinking here?

Is the body of Christ also the bride of Christ?

The church gives birth to Christ?

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Well prentis my prentis

the merriam webster dictionary defines grace as "unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification"

the oxford defines grace as "the free and unmerited favour of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings".

so as you can see the two vary.

Now my NIV bible defines grace as "Unmerited favour, unearned benefit, undeserved kindness. God's amazing gift of forgiveness of sins and power to live with dignity in the present and with hope for the future"

Unmerited means one was not specifically rewarded for anything in particular, thus the wide range of people whom grace is available. Unearned is pretty self explanatory that is was not worked for, and we do not deserve it for the way we have behaved.

Now by grace "is unmerited favor" you mean that we are not anymore special to God than anyone else because of this free gift ?

 

[Insight]

Amen!

I was doing a study this morning with my (biological) sister, and we stumbled on the subject of the woman being saved in child-bearing. Here's what we got.

The woman represents the church, as the church is the Lord's bride. And the church is to bear Christ. Now when we come to Christ in true repentance and are born again, we receive the seed of Christ. We must then labor and travail, that Christ might be born in us, and brought forth.

Thus the church's salvation is not in receiving the seed, but in bringing it forth and giving birth to Christ. That means it becomes like him, and reflects his glory, having him in her.

Christendom has confused this issue today thinking we are saved by receiving the seed, when the reality is that, as it is with the woman, we are saved when we bring the seed to fruitition, to form Christ in us!

Here Prentis

1 Tim 2:15 (Its a labour thing, you know pain, suffering, agony without which no one will enter)

1Co 3:15 & 1Pe 1:7; Acts 14:22: Gen 3:15,16 Isa 7:14 Jer 31:22 Mat 1:21-25; Rom 7:4; 6:17 Gal 5:22,23 ; John 3:5; 1 Pet 1:23; Rom 6:4; 1 Ti 5:10,14

To help with your studies.

 

[Episkopos]

Very good thoughts! I like the analogy of the church having to "embody" Christ. If we are the body of Christ then we must be able to truly embody Him. We have received of His Spirit and been BORN from above. But we will not truly embody Christ until we can reflect who is really IS. So we must move into maturity in order to reflect Jesus as an adult; Jesus only began His ministry as an adult after all.

I like what Jake said about us being responsible for what we have received. Grace is means to accomplishing the will of God. Too often we see grace as an end in itself. Like Prentis has pointed out, seed is not the end of the crop but the means to producing a crop. We are responsible for being the right kind of soil that brings forth fruit in it's season.

 

[Prentis]

Got any scripture to support your thinking here?

Is the body of Christ also the bride of Christ?

The church gives birth to Christ?

My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

The church is to embody Christ, and to shine forth his light. Simple; Christ says 'I am the light of the world', then he tells his disciples 'You are the light of the world'. Is it that he isnt the light anymore? Of course not. It is that now he shines through his disciples, that is what is supposed to happen. We are to be transformed into the same image, so that when the world looks at us, it sees Christ. That is what we are called to.

 

[Jake]

My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

The church is to embody Christ, and to shine forth his light. Simple; Christ says 'I am the light of the world', then he tells his disciples 'You are the light of the world'. Is it that he isnt the light anymore? Of course not. It is that now he shines through his disciples, that is what is supposed to happen. We are to be transformed into the same image, so that when the world looks at us, it sees Christ. That is what we are called to.

This is spot on, brother!

 

[Prentis]

Thanks Jake

Very good thoughts! I like the analogy of the church having to "embody" Christ. If we are the body of Christ then we must be able to truly embody Him. We have received of His Spirit and been BORN from above. But we will not truly embody Christ until we can reflect who is really IS. So we must move into maturity in order to reflect Jesus as an adult; Jesus only began His ministry as an adult after all.

I like what Jake said about us being responsible for what we have received. Grace is means to accomplishing the will of God. Too often we see grace as an end in itself. Like Prentis has pointed out, seed is not the end of the crop but the means to producing a crop. We are responsible for being the right kind of soil that brings forth fruit in it's season.

I like that; 'Jesus only began His ministry as an adult after all.'

We can only minister Christ to the world when we are mature. Otherwise we are still babes in Christ, being tossed to and fro.

 

[aspen]

There are so many instances in the Bible that tell us we are responsible for the faith God has given us, He grows it, yet we exercise it. Jesus told some people, "you of little faith, why do you doubt", yet others He told, "you are healed because of your faith".

So it is what we do with our faith and with the grace He has given us, we are responsible to utilize both through obedience and love for Him. We are accountable to Him for what He has given to us.

'We exercise our faith' - well stated! I like to think of it as practicing our faith - we have to practice it because we lost our ability to put faith into practice after the Fall.