Calculating the Rapture? 7 Factors to Consider

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The Light

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Let me do this in full one last time, you do not pay attention in full at times. You guys who allow single verses to sway you an inordinate amount never ever use the full bible like you should.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (This is the Anti-Christ who SACKS Israel/Jerusalem at the 1260)

{{{ We then see a 3.5 year JUMP with one word........THEN........THEN.........THEN the Lord (Jesus) shall go forth and fight those nations who defeated Israel. He lands on he Mt. of Olives. }}}

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

BUT.........you can't grasp the very same thing in Matt. 24:29-30 ABOVE, verse 2 happens in the exact Middle of the week THEN Jesus returns, BELOW:

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Satan is cast down to Earth at the 1260 middle of the week, read Rev. 12 and Dan. 12:1-2)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(AND THEN Jesus returns, just like in Zechariah 14:3): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So, in Zechariah 14:2 we see Israel sacked at the 1260 and THEN the Lord (Jesus) returns. In Matt. 24:29 we are told the exact same thing, IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Tribulation of those days start we see the Sun and Moon go Dark, we KNOW this event happens in the exact middle of the week by reading the bible !! And THEN..........THEN.............THEN Jesus returns. You take the Sun and Moon reference about IMMEDIATLY AFTER and Jump to the telling of Jesus Second Coming to mean IMMEDIATLY AFTER the troubles start, which is the middle of the week AS PROVED by the Sun and Moon going dark, which we know happens in the middle of the week go read Rev. 8 !! Good grief man. In both Zechariah 14:3 and in Matt. 24:30 we get a 3.5 year JUMP AHEAD. That is why not being called unto Prophesy places one at a disadvantage, you have to understand how it works brother. It boggles my mind that men actually think the reference to Jesus Return is IMMEDIATELY AFTER when that is only referring to the Sun and Moon going dark. Astonishing lack of comprehension on that which is very evident. We all know when the Sun and Moon goes dark. We also know when Satan is cast to earth. At the 1260.
Here is the error which is common for those that believe in a pretrib rapture. You think the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 which I'll post is the coming of Jesus in Zechariah 14.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus does NOT set His feet on the mount of Olives during this coming. He sends angels to gather the elect from the earth. He has come for the seed of the woman. When Satan goes after the woman, she flees to a place of protection. Then the dragon goes after the seed of the woman who now believe in the Messiah as he cannot get to the woman.

Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I know that you think you got this, but you don't. Jesus and John are telling you the exact same thing. And you use that to understand the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. Until you forget all this "the seals are nothing" nonsense, there is not a chance you will understand.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation the cosmic signs happen and the wrath of God begins after the second harvest. Who do you think those 144,000 are? 5,000,000 Jew because that's what you think or are they 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest as the Word says.
 

The Light

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Let me do this in full one last time, you do not pay attention in full at times. You guys who allow single verses to sway you an inordinate amount never ever use the full bible like you should.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (This is the Anti-Christ who SACKS Israel/Jerusalem at the 1260)

{{{ We then see a 3.5 year JUMP with one word........THEN........THEN.........THEN the Lord (Jesus) shall go forth and fight those nations who defeated Israel. He lands on he Mt. of Olives. }}}

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

BUT.........you can't grasp the very same thing in Matt. 24:29-30 ABOVE, verse 2 happens in the exact Middle of the week THEN Jesus returns, BELOW:

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Satan is cast down to Earth at the 1260 middle of the week, read Rev. 12 and Dan. 12:1-2)

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(AND THEN Jesus returns, just like in Zechariah 14:3): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So, in Zechariah 14:2 we see Israel sacked at the 1260 and THEN the Lord (Jesus) returns. In Matt. 24:29 we are told the exact same thing, IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Tribulation of those days start we see the Sun and Moon go Dark, we KNOW this event happens in the exact middle of the week by reading the bible !! And THEN..........THEN.............THEN Jesus returns. You take the Sun and Moon reference about IMMEDIATLY AFTER and Jump to the telling of Jesus Second Coming to mean IMMEDIATLY AFTER the troubles start, which is the middle of the week AS PROVED by the Sun and Moon going dark, which we know happens in the middle of the week go read Rev. 8 !! Good grief man. In both Zechariah 14:3 and in Matt. 24:30 we get a 3.5 year JUMP AHEAD. That is why not being called unto Prophesy places one at a disadvantage, you have to understand how it works brother. It boggles my mind that men actually think the reference to Jesus Return is IMMEDIATELY AFTER when that is only referring to the Sun and Moon going dark. Astonishing lack of comprehension on that which is very evident. We all know when the Sun and Moon goes dark. We also know when Satan is cast to earth. At the 1260.
Here is the error which is common for those that believe in a pretrib rapture. You think the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 which I'll post is the coming of Jesus in Zechariah 14.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus does NOT set His feet on the mount of Olives during this coming. He sends angels to gather the elect from the earth. He has come for the seed of the woman. When Satan goes after the woman, she flees to a place of protection. Then the dragon goes after the seed of the woman who now believe in the Messiah as he cannot get to the woman.

Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I know that you think you got this, but you don't. Jesus and John are telling you the exact same thing. And you use that to understand the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. Until you forget all this "the seals are nothing" nonsense, there is not a chance you will understand.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation the cosmic signs happen and the wrath of God begins after the second harvest. Who do you think those 144,000 are? 5,000,000 Jew because that's what you think or are they 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest as the Word says.
 

The Light

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The Seals DO NOTHING, why does this not penetrate you mind sir? A SEALED SCROLL can not be read until ALL 7 Seals are taken off. You can understand a closet door can not be looked into until 7 locks are taken off, (I assume) and even when 6 locks are off the closet still can not be opened, yet you refuse to admit this is what Jesus is doing via the 7 Seals, even though we all know a kings message with 2 seals kept the message safe, with one seal off the message was still safe, with 2 off it was still safe !! The number 7 being used tells us the Scroll is DIVINLY SEALED until all 7 Seals are taken off. It is a no brainer to be honest.
How can you not see that what you are saying does not agree with scripture? This is just common sense. All you have to do is read it.

The Word does not say anything about all seals need to be opened. It says the 1st seal is opened and then come and see what happens. Same thing for the second seal. The seal is opened and we can see what happens. The Word does not say all seals need to be opened for you to see what is happening. When the second seal is opened we can see what happens.

So it is you that are placing restrictions on the Word, NOT THE WORD. It is you that is concluding that the seals are nothing. Again, not the Word, it is you that are bringing in the confusion.

Revelation 6
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The scripture below is a recap of events that have been fulfilled, the man Child was Jesus Christ, the woman was Israel, Satan used King Herod trying to kill Jesus when he was born, Jesus ascended to the right hand of the throne of God, where he now sits
Everything after Rev. 4:1 is the HEREAFTER or 70th week which was of course after the Church Age which was the THINGS THAT ARE. In Rev. 12 we get the CODE to who the players are in verses 1-5. then we get the actual end time events (70th week events). Israel is the Woman with 12 stars (Gen. 37:9) Jesus was the Male Child, its not man child its actually male child. And yes King Herod tried to kill baby Jesus vis the Red Dragon. Now we understand the players. Now we get the End Time 70th week Red Dragon (Satan) being cast out of Heaven at the 1260, that is why it says he is cast to earth and has a short time and is very angry. That is why he chases the Woman (Jews who repent) for exactly 1260 days. Thus just like he tried to kill baby Jesus he tries to destroy Israel. The story is nit about 2000 years ago, that is just God giving us the CODES for who the players are during the end time 70th week events.

Satan was on earth for Jobs temptation, also Jesus Christ's temptation in the wilderness of 40 days and nights, your suggestions that Satan is cast out of heaven in the future is Big Smiles
I can easily prove it.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

SHORT TIME as in 1260 days. Now lets see when Michael stands up in Dan. 12.

Dan. 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,(This happens in during END TIMES) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

If you would just allow the scriptures to guide you brother you wouldn't get off-tracked so much.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The seven thunders are to mark completeness at the voice of the "seventh angel" sounding.
The Seven Thunders are the 7 Judgment Trumps being spoken of in a concise Parenthetical Citation type chapter, just like Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses Ministry chapter. Rev. 12 is the Red Dragon chasing the Woman (Israel) after he is cast out of heaven chapter. Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ Beast chapter. Rev. 14 is the Harvest chapter. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (All False Religion of all time) chapter. Rev. 18 is Babylon (whole world) being judged chapter. Rev. 19 is the Marriage of the Lamb to the Church and the Marriage Supper chapter. It is that simple, only Rev. 8, 9 and 15&16 are Judgment chapters. The Seals are prophetic and point to te coming 7 Trumps of Judgments.

When do we hear thunder in nature? AFTER... the lightning. And the "day of the Lord" is when final judgment upon this present world earth age will occur, and that is the day of Christ's future coming when the 7th Vial, 6th Seal, and 7th Trumpet will happen, and not before. Many see all the vials of Rev.16 as God's wrath upon the beast, which they partially are, but the final 7th Vial is the actual cup of wrath on the last day that Jesus and the disciples pointed to that ends today's world.
No mention of lightening in Rev. 10, not that it matters, the passage is self explanatory.

Rev. 10:4 And when the seven thunders(7 Trumps) had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

{{{ So, John was given another vision, telling him what everything he has saw actually meant, then he was told not to write those things. In other words John at 90 years old was not just left in the blind like Daniel was, he was told what all the imagery he had saw and written actually meant, but was told nit to write the plain understandings down. But he was told that when the 7th Thunder (Trump) sounds time will be no longer (as we know it) because Jesus of course will take over at the 7th Trump right? He was also told to eat the book, and he stated it was bitter and sweet. Well, billions of fellow human being being killed is sad (bitter) and Jesus taking over is sweet. }}}

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

All 7 Trumps are God's Wrath.

No, the last 3rd Woe signals the "day of the Lord" timing when Jesus returns and the resurrection happens, and the saints still alive on earth are "caught up" to them in the air.
No, the Wrath of God begins with Trump #1. The Rapture happens Pre Trib, that is not even debatable tbh. We see the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are ever opened in Rev. 4 and 5. We see them again in Rev. 7:9-17 and we see them FIRST in Rev. 19 before they (we) get our white robes. You do not understand these timing issues brother. Lock everything else out and fit the timings together first, center them all around the 1260. It takes hard work and prayer to get to the proper place.

This is why God's two witnesses suddenly rise in that same hour. The previous vials happen during the 2nd Woe timing. The 2nd Woe timing is the time of "great tribulation" when the false-Messiah will be here. An asteroid is man's speculation. The star falling upon the waters making them bitter is symbolic for Satan's influence upon the peoples (waters of Rev.15) on the earth, their spiritual dispositions being made bitter. It is all in prep for the final Act, the "strong deception" when Satan arrives playing Jesus Christ and seeks to destroy all those who refuse to bow to him as God.
The 7 Vials all happen during the 3rd Woe, brought forth by the 7th Trump. The Greatest Ever Troubles start in Rev. 8 with Trump #1, they last until the 7th Vial. The false messiah is a misnomer. Matt. 24:4-6 is about 70 AD false christs put forth by the Pharisees to save them from the Fourth Beast Rome. In John 5:43 who is Jesus talking to when he said YOU will not receive me who has come in the Fathers name, but YOU will receive another who comes in his own name. Now, in Matt. 24:24-26 they do try to trick the 5 million Jews who are in the Petra/Bozrah area out of their safe zone, no doubt, but Jesus has forewarned them where they can not be tricked. He says I will not be in the Desert, nor in the secret Storeroom, but I will come in the Eastern Skies !! So, yet the Anti-Christ and False Prophet will try to preform miracles to trick ONLY THOSE Jews who are in hiding after repenting, but he s nit going to pretend to be the Jewish Messiah, he wants to be worshiped as a god himself. He will not deceive the Jews who repent, he needs not deceive those Jews who refused to repent, he will just kill them all. Zech. 13:8-9 says the 2/3 who do not repent will DIE.

You are terribly wrong, and are just showing your Biblical ignorance.
LOL...........I will be correct once you get to Heaven you will understand that. I have more End Time Prophetic Understanding than anyone you know or will ever know.

he mention on the 6th Seal of heaven departing as a scroll, and every mountain and island moved out of their places, is a DEFINITE MARKER of the "day of the Lord" timing, which is the day of Christ's future return. This marker about the mountains and the islands is ALSO given on the 7th VIAL timing per Revelation 16.

And the 70th week of Daniel 9, that is the final "one week" that has still yet to be accounted for. All the previous weeks can be accounted for.
The Seals are all PROPHETIC not actual events. The 70th week starts sometime after the Pre Trib Rapture. Israel joins the E.U. that is the Agreement (Covenant) in Dan. 9:27. You seem to try and put all of the Seals, Trumps and Vials together, well, the Seals ARE the Trumps, but they are Prophesies of what the 7 Trumps will soon bring upon the earth, but the 7 Vials are the 3rd Woe which comes when the 7th Trump sounds. All you have to so is read Rev. 8:13 it states EMPHATICALLY, that the Last Three Trumps are the THREE WOES. How can you miss that?
 

Truth7t7

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Everything after Rev. 4:1 is the HEREAFTER or 70th week which was of course after the Church Age which was the THINGS THAT ARE. In Rev. 12 we get the CODE to who the players are in verses 1-5. then we get the actual end time events (70th week events). Israel is the Woman with 12 stars (Gen. 37:9) Jesus was the Male Child, its not man child its actually male child. And yes King Herod tried to kill baby Jesus vis the Red Dragon. Now we understand the players. Now we get the End Time 70th week Red Dragon (Satan) being cast out of Heaven at the 1260, that is why it says he is cast to earth and has a short time and is very angry. That is why he chases the Woman (Jews who repent) for exactly 1260 days. Thus just like he tried to kill baby Jesus he tries to destroy Israel. The story is nit about 2000 years ago, that is just God giving us the CODES for who the players are during the end time 70th week events.


I can easily prove it.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

SHORT TIME as in 1260 days. Now lets see when Michael stands up in Dan. 12.

Dan. 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,(This happens in during END TIMES) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

If you would just allow the scriptures to guide you brother you wouldn't get off-tracked so much.
You forgot where the "Man Child" was caught up to God's throne, where is that in your future end time scenario, big smiles!

Revelation 12:3-5KJV
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 

Ronald D Milam

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I am not misunderstanding the Scriptures. You are engulfed in men's doctrines instead of staying with The Bible as written. The word "elements" in the Greek is about a world-time. It is a Greek word that points to the ways and things of this present world, and not to the earth's atomic weights of earthly matter. God is going to cleanse the earth's surface once again in final, but using fire this next time instead of waters of a flood. He is not going to literally destroy this earth. He is going to cleanse it of man's works. With the time of Noah's flood, what did it destroy off the surface of this earth? Man and his works.

Other examples of that Greek word translated as "elements" in the KJV -- Galatians 4:3, Galatians 4:9.
We know what Elements mean sir, what you do not get is when this all happens. What Peter is speaking about is the "Order of the Universe" is done away with via heat, then he says and the Earth too. So, the base where we live, in an orderly universe will be done away with via heat, so in essence the orderly Universe we live in is done away with by fire. Since the Greek word meant the orderly baseline of things and Peter was referring to the Universe, our English word came to to mean the make up of the Universal Elements. That is how words evolve, the Greek word Tribulum (a machine to crush wheat where it could then be sifted) gave us the English word tribulation. Because Israel (the Wheat) have to go through the Tribulation in order to be sufted, Barley does not, the Church thus is the Barley. So, in essence, whether you get this or not, the order of things means our universe, that is what Peter means, we can see this by his very next words, and the Earth also, which is a part of the Universes order right?

(KJV) Peter 2:310 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat(the base/Universe/Order of the Universe), the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

You get a little over enthused about the meaning of a word here for some reason, when in fact it does indeed mean this Universe, the earth, and all the order therein shall be wiped away via fervent heat. I mean, there is not even a scintilla of a doubt what this means. Now read Rev. 20, there will be a new earth and new heaven, one with no Sea in it.

I agree Lord Jesus takes His starting 1,000 years reign with His elect on the day of His future return.
No, this wrath happens 3.5 years before his actually return.

But the "day of the Lord" happens only on the LAST DAY of this present world as written, and that is when Jesus returns on that day, which also is written. And Peter was pointing specifically to that same... day at the very end of this present world also for when God's consuming fire will happen. You are confusing the future "lake of fire" that happens after Christ's future 1,000 years reign with God's consuming fire that happens on the day of Jesus' return. Those are two separate events.
It is not possible, the Day of the Lord starts God's Wrath, all you have to do is read the bible, we see the Wrath and what all it entails. it will not happen in one day, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the bible my friend.

There's that asteroid speculation by men's doctrines again. I'll let you in on a little mystery. The 6th Seal events are actually in 2 Parts. The first Part is about Satan's coming to earth for the last days.
No, this is me understanding the prophecy and what all it entails. The Seals are not actual events but Prophetic Utterings by Jesus as he unlocks the Sealed Scroll of Judgments.
Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
This comes to pass via Trumps 1-4. Fire off of an Asteroid ALWAYS hits first (Trump #1) The Impact comes next (Trump #2). Then the Poisonous Fallout always comes next, that is somewhat what killed the dinos off, Sulfur Fallout, but this may be some other poison (Trump #3/Wormwood). Then the Sun and Moon will darken because of all the trees, grasses and hoses burning. Sodom was destroyed by Sulfur balls, they have found those balls in the Dead Sea still intact where the water cooled them off. The earthquake will be the IMPACT !! The blood moon will be all of the fires on earth, that will give the moon a Red Hue, the California Wildfires do thus now, the moon sometimes looks blood red in those areas. Of course the smoke filters the light.

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV
I see this as Satan and his demons (stars) being cast down like untimely figs. There TIME in Heaven is up, are in the 2nd Heaven (Universe) thus they are all cast to earth. Rev. 18:2 says so, Babylon is become a habitation of Devils (Babylon = the world).

Those stars of heaven falling to earth "as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs" is about the Revelation 12:7-9 future event when Satan and his angels are booted out of the heavenly dimension down to earth, in OUR earthly dimension.
Ahhh, so we agree here !!

And that is what causes the great tribulation time at the end of this world.
Which proves my point that this all happens at the 1260 middle of the week, you have to agree now because of this point. Satan chases the Woman (Israel) how many days? 1260.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So, you agree that Satan is cast to earth at the Middle of the Week 1260 event, thus he chases the Woman for 1260 days, thus the Troubles of Jacob begin at the 1260 middle of the Week, thus the Day of the Lord begins at the 1260. Not as Jesus returns.
 

No Pre-TB

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Here is the second trumpet and you are correct, there is no star mentioned.
Revelation 8
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

However, if we go to the third trumpet, we do see a star from heaven, so the asteroid could be correct.

Revelation 8
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
There is scripture to explain that as well. But I don’t want to get into that. Not to have meaningful dialogue with you, but I’m more focused on other subjects that I’m currently responding to.
 

Ronald D Milam

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ALL of the Signs Jesus gave in that Matthew 24 Chapter are for THE END OF THIS WORLD, including the sign that not one stone would be atop another on the temple mount on the last day He was pointing to, the "end of the world" His disciples asked Him about there.

Today, the Western Wall of HUGE STONES ARE STILL STANDING AT THE TEMPLE MOUNT IN JERUSALEM. Also, the DOME OF THE ROCK Muslim shrine has great stones and is standing upon the temple mount yet today. So Lord Jesus' prophecy of not one stone atop another there WAS NEVER FULFILLED. So how much common sense does it take to recognize that huge stones are STILL there at that area of the temple mount in Jerusalem?

How do you not understand the difference between the Temple and the Gentile Court? (the Wailing Wall is a part of the Gentile Court).

templebuildinguse.jpg0cb4ca76c5c01a5b43938663503a222e.jpg




There was the Temple above as shown, the Court of Women, then there was the Court of the Gentiles, the Wailing wall was NOT part of the Temple. Thus the Temple was torn down in 70 AD. You should know the Temple is not a part of the Outer Court. Totally different.
 

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ewq1938

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There was the Temple above as shown, the Court of Women, then there was the Court of the Gentiles, the Wailing wall was NOT part of the Temple. Thus the Temple was torn down in 70 AD. You should know the Temple is not a part of the Outer Court. Totally different.


The prophecy is about all buildings being torn down, not only the temple. Because not all buildings were torn down, the prophecy was not fulfilled. Today, some stones are still upon the same stones that existed when Christ walked there.

Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Nah, that idea NEVER came from any of Christ's Apostles. And you are making it up a lie by saying the idea is written in those above Scriptures.
You just do not know know how to pull out the original facts, you keep bringing forth things men changed. My blog of 7 years ago shows the facts. The fact that nowhere in this passage is the Departure of Faith even hinted at, yet we had people who wrote the KJV taking a shot at the RCC and thus altering the real meaning by putting this forth as the Church going into apostasy, (falling away from true doctrine) when doctrine is never mentioned one time, nor is faith, but we can see a DEPARTURE of the Churches standing on this earth spoken about in verse 1 via a Gathering unto Jesus Christ. So, you guys who followed the Church of England down a cul-de-sac.

Is the Falling Away is a False Teaching?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the true church can "Fall Away" from sound doctrine, either you are of Jesus Christ and God the Father or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the bible used by the western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which also means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the church. I think when the church departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a falling away from the faith. It is the church departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1200 some odd years prior to 1611.
 

Ronald D Milam

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It isn't. And I never said it was. You must have a reading comprehension problem.

The middle of the "one week" (7 years) is about simple math. You can do simple math can't you? What is half of a 7 year period?
Which means the Dan. 9:27 Prophecy CAN NOT be in the Middle of the week, did it just go over your head here or did you not get the thrust of my point. In Dan. 9:27 it says the AoD is brought to pass in the "Midst" of the week, but you just admitted the 1290 can not be the exact middle of the week. Now read Dan. 12:11-12, it says the AoD happens at the 1290.

You just admitted your original argument has to be wrong. But alas, you never understood the point I made it seems, the 1290 (AoD) can not be the middle of the week, and thus it is not the Anti-Christ, it is the False Prophet, a Jewish High priest in league with the Anti-Christ who will be the E.U. President. Thus HE (Beast from the Sea/Little Horn/Anti-Christ) CAUSES the AoD to be placed and CAUSES the Jesus Worship to cease also. In the Midst or at the 1290. which is 30 days before he goes forth conquering.
 

Ronald D Milam

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The prophecy is about all buildings being torn down, not only the temple. Because not all buildings were torn down, the prophecy was not fulfilled. Today, some stones are still upon the same stones that existed when Christ walked there.

Mar 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
Mar 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The Buildings of the Temple is THE TEMPLE, not the Outer Court of the Gentiles.
 

ewq1938

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Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The Buildings of the Temple is THE TEMPLE, not the Outer Court of the Gentiles.


Wrong. The buildings are ALL things built with stones there which included all the walls. It was the entire place that impressed the disciples not just one building.
 

Davy

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The Seven Thunders are the 7 Judgment Trumps being spoken of in a concise Parenthetical Citation type chapter, just like Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses Ministry chapter.
No, the seven thunders are NOT the Vials of Revelation 16, nor are they the 7 Trumpets. The Rev.10 chapter is about completeness, which is why it reveals prophecy for this present world will be all over when the 7th angel sounds (7th Trumpet). It's because the 7th trumpet is the FINAL DAY of this world when Jesus returns, likewise with the 7th Vial. So the 7 thunders, which because thunders happens AFTER lightning, that shows a completion of events, and not a play by play following of the trumpet or vials.

No mention of lightening in Rev. 10, not that it matters, the passage is self explanatory.

Rev. 10:4 And when the seven thunders(7 Trumps) had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

{{{ So, John was given another vision, telling him what everything he has saw actually meant, then he was told not to write those things. In other words John at 90 years old was not just left in the blind like Daniel was, he was told what all the imagery he had saw and written actually meant, but was told nit to write the plain understandings down. But he was told that when the 7th Thunder (Trump) sounds time will be no longer (as we know it) because Jesus of course will take over at the 7th Trump right? He was also told to eat the book, and he stated it was bitter and sweet. Well, billions of fellow human being being killed is sad (bitter) and Jesus taking over is sweet. }}}
Wrong, the 7th Trumpet is not... a 7th thunder; there is NO mention of individual thunders tied to the trumpets. So that idea is just your supposition adding to that Scripture.


5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

All 7 Trumps are God's Wrath.

No, the Wrath of God begins with Trump #1. The Rapture happens Pre Trib, that is not even debatable tbh. We see the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are ever opened in Rev. 4 and 5. We see them again in Rev. 7:9-17 and we see them FIRST in Rev. 19 before they (we) get our white robes. You do not understand these timing issues brother. Lock everything else out and fit the timings together first, center them all around the 1260. It takes hard work and prayer to get to the proper place.
The specific 'cup' of God's wrath happens ONLY on the LAST DAY of this world with Jesus' future coming. That is the same 'wrath' mentioned in the 6th Seal and 7th Trumpet. The previous vials are not the same wrath events as the final one.

The 7 Vials all happen during the 3rd Woe, brought forth by the 7th Trump.
No, they don't. Only the FINAL 7th vial happens with the final 7th Trumpet. The other previous vials each happen according to the SEVEN SIGNS of the end Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, which are the SIGNS in His Revelation, the final SIGN being that of His future return and gathering of His saints.

The 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe is linked with the 5th Seal.
The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe is linked with the first part of the 6th Seal when Satan and his are cast down to this earth to cause the 'great tribulation'.
The 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is linked with the latter part of the 6th Seal, and the 7th Vial cup of God's wrath poured out into the "air".

I'll bet you never considered why that final 7th Vial is poured out in the "air", and not upon the wicked on earth.
 

Davy

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We know what Elements mean sir, what you do not get is when this all happens. What Peter is speaking about is the "Order of the Universe" is done away with via heat, then he says and the Earth too. So, the base where we live, in an orderly universe will be done away with via heat, so in essence the orderly Universe we live in is done away with by fire. Since the Greek word meant the orderly baseline of things and Peter was referring to the Universe, our English word came to to mean the make up of the Universal Elements. That is how words evolve, the Greek word Tribulum (a machine to crush wheat where it could then be sifted) gave us the English word tribulation. Because Israel (the Wheat) have to go through the Tribulation in order to be sufted, Barley does not, the Church thus is the Barley. So, in essence, whether you get this or not, the order of things means our universe, that is what Peter means, we can see this by his very next words, and the Earth also, which is a part of the Universes order right?
That is fleshy thinking.

Acts 1 is where it is written how Lord Jesus ascended into Heaven, with His Apostles as witnesses watching Him go up into the clouds. And angels then asked His Apostles why they wondered at sight of that, because they said Jesus will also come "in like manner" as they saw Him go into Heaven. Then it is written there also the Apostles left that Mount of Olives after that event.

And with the Zechariah 14 prophecy witness, it shows Lord Jesus' future return to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem on that "day of the Lord" that Peter spoke of!

So how much common sense does it take to understand that the event of God's consuming fire Peter said will happen on the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night", does not destroy the whole earth (and universe) since JESUS' FEET TOUCH DOWN UPON THE STILL EXISTING MOUNT OF OLIVES?

So what does God do on the "day of the Lord" when His "consuming fire" destroys this earth (per your view), and then Jesus' feet touch down upon this same earth at the Mount of Olives on that SAME day?

You are not thinking for yourself, but are blindly following the doctrines of men, men who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag if they had to.
 

Davy

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How do you not understand the difference between the Temple and the Gentile Court? (the Wailing Wall is a part of the Gentile Court).


How is it you don't understand there are still HUGE STONES ATOP one another at today's temple mount?? Where do you think the Dome of the Rock sits?
 

Davy

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You just do not know know how to pull out the original facts, you keep bringing forth things men changed.
LOL about your comment about facts. I quote Bible Scripture you neither understand, nor address, and then you constantly 'try' to ADD doctrines of men to the Scriptures and pass them off as truth!

My blog of 7 years ago shows the facts. The fact that nowhere in this passage is the Departure of Faith even hinted at, yet we had people who wrote the KJV taking a shot at the RCC and thus altering the real meaning by putting this forth as the Church going into apostasy, (falling away from true doctrine) when doctrine is never mentioned one time, nor is faith, but we can see a DEPARTURE of the Churches standing on this earth spoken about in verse 1 via a Gathering unto Jesus Christ. So, you guys who followed the Church of England down a cul-de-sac.

Is the Falling Away is a False Teaching?
What is false is YOUR teaching! And your teaching GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST THE SCRIPTURES. What Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 was 'specifically'... about deception, and even how some within the Church were passing off fake letters claimed... to be from the Apostles! And for that reason, Paul was having REPEAT what he has previously taught them about events leading up to Christ's future coming!

I'm gonna' lay that out just so others here can see the heresy you present against Paul's Epistles...

2 Thess 2:1-5
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,


The subject here by Paul? The future coming of Lord Jesus Christ, and the gathering of His Church.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

There is that idea of some of them having been deceived by false ones, like from a "letter as from us". Deceived about what? About this very subject Paul first stated, the coming of Christ and gathering of His Church, the when.

3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The very matter is Paul warning against DECEPTION! And the result is APOSTASY. The Greek word 'apostasia' is that KJV word "away" there. Apostasy means a defection from the truth. It means a person that forsakes something.

The next 4th verse goes with it, and shows HOW that falling away will happen with some...

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


That is about the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse. He said that false one will work great signs and wonders that IF IT WERE possible, it would deceive even His very elect chosen ones (which cannot be deceived).

That is the same false one that Daniel was given to prophecy about for the end of this world, the "vile person" that during the coming trib will end re-established sacrifices in Jerusalem with a new temple, and then setup the "abomination of desolation" idol in that temple which Jesus forewarned of for the end of this world. It will be the "image of the beast" mentioned at the end of Rev.13.

That 2 Thess.2:4 also points to that future final Antichrist false one being over the coming 'one-world religion', with that "above all that is called God, or that is worshipped". So is that going to be about gross deception of some, even some Christian brethren that will 'fall away' to that false-Messiah? Yes, it will involve some brethren, even as some Christian brethren even today are siding with the orthodox Jesus in Jerusalem in preparing to rebuild their temple! even helping provide the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem with red heifers for sacrifice (as a certain 'Christian' run company in the state of Tennessee in the U.S. was doing by sending red heifers to Jerusalem in 1997 for passover sacrifice by the Land of Israel and Temple Mount Faithful in Jerusalem).

Thus Paul makes it plain that great falling away from Christ is about falling away to that "man of sin" that is to come and play Christ in Jerusalem. That false one coming to sit in that "temple of God" is a pointer to a stone temple in Jerusalem, just as the prophecy Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" for the end is also about an idol setup in a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end! That... is what the falling away is about which must happen FIRST, and will involve the revealing of that "son of perdition" also! So both verse 3 & 4 are about the SAME event!

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
KJV


Then Paul says to them, "don't you remember I told you about these things before at my earlier visit?" So Paul was having to UN-DECEIVE them about the endtime events leading up to Christ's future coming. The Antichrist-false-Messiah MUST come first to cause that deception that cause many to FALL AWAY. The Scripture is simple, is a hard-linked to Jesus' warning against deception by the pseudo-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26, which is about a singular false-Messiah the Jews will recognize as their Messiah of The Bible, but will instead be an imposter!

So brethren, IF your Church is teaching something different than that in 2 Thessalonians 2, then they are pushing men's corrupt doctrines and traditions instead, and are not listening to Lord Jesus' warnings for His faithful Church at the end of this world.

The "strong delusion" Paul mentions there in 2 Thess.2 is about falling away to that coming pseudo-Christ, think he is our Lord Jesus having returned. And each religious faith on earth will be told that false one is the saviour they have been waiting for, and thus they will fall for that "strong delusion" also which God is sending upon the world.

Rev 13:4-8
4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, 'Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?'

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
 

Davy

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You just do not know know how to pull out the original facts, you keep bringing forth things men changed. My blog of 7 years ago shows the facts. The fact that nowhere in this passage is the Departure of Faith even hinted at, yet we had people who wrote the KJV taking a shot at the RCC and thus altering the real meaning by putting this forth as the Church going into apostasy, (falling away from true doctrine) when doctrine is never mentioned one time, nor is faith, but we can see a DEPARTURE of the Churches standing on this earth spoken about in verse 1 via a Gathering unto Jesus Christ. So, you guys who followed the Church of England down a cul-de-sac.


LOL about your comment about facts. I quote Bible Scripture you neither understand, nor address, and then you constantly 'try' to ADD doctrines of men to the Scriptures and pass them off as truth!


What is false is YOUR teaching! And your teaching GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST THE SCRIPTURES. What Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 was 'specifically'... about deception, and even how some within the Church were passing off fake letters claimed... to be from the Apostles! And for that reason, Paul was having to REPEAT what he had previously taught them about events leading up to Christ's future coming!

I'm gonna' lay that out just so others here can see the heresy you present against Paul's Epistles...

2 Thess 2:1-5
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,


The subject here by Paul? The future coming of Lord Jesus Christ, and the gathering of His Church.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

There is that idea of some of them having been deceived by false ones, like from a "letter as from us". Deceived about what? About this very subject Paul first stated, the coming of Christ and gathering of His Church, the when.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The very matter is Paul warning against DECEPTION! And the result is APOSTASY. The Greek word 'apostasia' is that KJV word "away" there. Apostasy means a defection from the truth. It means a person that forsakes something.

The next 4th verse goes with it, and shows HOW that falling away will happen with some...

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is about the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse. He said that false one will work great signs and wonders that IF IT WERE possible, it would deceive even His very elect chosen ones (which cannot be deceived).

That is the same false one that Daniel was given to prophecy about for the end of this world, the "vile person" that during the coming trib will end re-established sacrifices in Jerusalem with a new temple, and then setup the "abomination of desolation" idol in that temple which Jesus forewarned of for the end of this world. It will be the "image of the beast" mentioned at the end of Rev.13.

That 2 Thess.2:4 also points to that future final Antichrist false one being over the coming 'one-world religion', with that "above all that is called God, or that is worshipped". So is that going to be about gross deception for some, even some Christian brethren that will 'fall away' to that false-Messiah? Yes, it will involve some brethren, even as some Christian brethren even today are siding with the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem in preparing to rebuild their temple! even helping provide the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem with red heifers for sacrifice (as a certain 'Christian' company in the state of Tennessee in the U.S. was doing by sending red heifers to Jerusalem in 1997 for passover sacrifice by groups like the Land of Israel and Temple Mount Faithful in Jerusalem).

Thus Paul makes it plain that great falling away from Christ is about falling away to that "man of sin" that is to come and play Christ in Jerusalem. That false one coming to sit in that "temple of God" is a pointer to a stone temple in Jerusalem, just as the prophecy Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" for the end is also about an idol setup in a stone temple in Jerusalem for the end! That... is what the falling away is about which must happen FIRST, and will involve the revealing of that "son of perdition" also! So both verse 3 & 4 are about the SAME event!

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
KJV


Then Paul says to them, "don't you remember I told you about these things before at my earlier visit?" So Paul was having to UN-DECEIVE them about the endtime events leading up to Christ's future coming. The Antichrist-false-Messiah MUST come first to cause that deception that will cause many to FALL AWAY. The Scripture is simple, and is a hard-linked to Jesus' warning against deception by the pseudo-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26, which is about a singular false-Messiah the Jews will recognize as their Messiah of The Bible, but will instead be an imposter!

So brethren, IF your Church is teaching something different than that in 2 Thessalonians 2, then they are pushing men's corrupt doctrines and traditions instead, and are not listening to Lord Jesus' warnings for His faithful Church at the end of this world.

The "strong delusion" Paul mentions there in 2 Thess.2 is about falling away to that coming pseudo-Christ, think he is our Lord Jesus having returned. And each religious faith on earth will be told that false one is the saviour they have been waiting for, and thus they will fall for that "strong delusion" also which God is sending upon the world.

Rev 13:4-8
4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, 'Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?'

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
 

The Light

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The 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe is linked with the 5th Seal.
The 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe is linked with the first part of the 6th Seal when Satan and his are cast down to this earth to cause the 'great tribulation'.
The 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe is linked with the latter part of the 6th Seal, and the 7th Vial cup of God's wrath poured out into the "air".
The first six seals are OVER before the trumpet of wrath. That is proven easy enough by the 7th seal being opened BEFORE wrath can begin.