CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I disagree, as a Born Again I would say....without reading God’s word we could never mature or grow in his word, we would remain only in the knowledge that has been taught to us via the Holy Spirit?
No Bible / Gods word no growth..?

As for the Holy Spirit...he would still live in our hearts/ spirit because we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.which liveth and abideth forever.

That means his Living word would never die in our hearts/spirit....because we have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.....what does that mean?

See how we view Gods word so very differently?

As @Gabriel_Arch so eloquently phrased this truth...

"Reading scripture differently from one another I think is also of God." ~ Gabriel_Arch

 

[Ritajanice]

You said
Listen,,,how do you think I know I’m Born Again, having never read a Bible?

My response was how did Jeremiah know he was formed by GOd.... ?

You said
And what would happen to my spirit if i couldn’t read the word of God again?

When did you start to read the bible? If you were born again without ever having done so?
It is conceivable that you were chosen for a specific purpose. Have you ever considered that/

I know exactly why God chose me out of the world...to be used for his purpose and plan...he has also showed me his will for an area of my life, as I have a Living intimate relationship with him, via his Spirit

I started reading God’s word as soon as I became Born Again, and there I was in his word, Born Again of imperishable seed, which is the Living word of God.

And? Did anyone say anything different?

Rita,

You never read a bible but God called you. WONDERFUL.

Did you ever attend church? What kind?

I attended church as a youngster, my friends parents took me.

I was born and attended and was baptised into the 2nd Presbyterian Church who later changed its name to Church of the covenant.
Since living here I now am with the Peter's Creek Evangelical Presbyterian Church.

No mater where you look to find an address you will find them listed inder Christian Churches... Same for phone numbers.

Before becoming Evangelical they used to have alter calls.... by one of the ministers. When he was gone that stopped. (No I never did as I felt I already was.) Not by that church but elsewhere and NOT from reading the bible either.

But if I was moving and looking for a new church home. (Which I would not ) I would be looking for what Christian Churches there were... Not Synagogues nor RCC.

But I am born again... except in the church of Christ, or those who hang their salvation on Mark 16:16. And with my full faith and trust in Christ Jesus' shed blood my spirit is surly born again...

A Born Again is Born of the Spirit it’s not a belief system, you can’t believe or have faith in God without the gift of Faith that can only come from God..a manifestation of the Spirit....human belief/faith I’m afraid is dead.

.. and that makes me a born again christian.

No, I can’t agree with a Born Again Christian.you added Christian at the end of Born Again, Gods word does not say that...a Born Again is different from a Christian.

There are also many denominations....I am a Born Again therefore don’t belong to any denomination.

The term born again has its origin in the New Testament. In the First Epistle of Peter, the author describes the new birth as taking place from the seed which is the Word of God. In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus himself refers to the Word of God as the seed.

 

[Ritajanice]

As @Gabriel_Arch so eloquently phrased this truth...

"Reading scripture differently from one another I think is also of God." ~ Gabriel_Arch

That’s what you believe....as I’ve already stated , A Christian is in Gods word, but there are also Born Agains in Gods word...the two are different, my belief and opinion.

And it’s also Gods word....he doesn’t say a Christian will see the Kingdom of God...he says only a Born Agains will see the Kingdom of God.

When you say Born Again Christian you have added your word to the word of God..therefore void of any truth.

If Born Again Christian was the word of God...then of course I would embrace it...unfortunately it’s not his word.

The term born again has its origin in the New Testament. In the First Epistle of Peter, the author describes the new birth as taking place from the seed which is the Word of God. In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus himself refers to the Word of God as the seed.

Born Again from the seed of Gods word which is his Spirit.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I, as well as Rita, started a thread on this.

Mine is at Bible Study Forum

 

[Robert Pate]

I, as well as Rita, started a thread on this.

Mine is at Bible Study Forum

I see that someone has derailed my thread. The Gospel causes contention. I didn't invent the Gospel. Paul said, "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Paul did not say that Calvinism is the power of God unto salvation. As a matter of fact, Paul never said that anyone would be predestinated to heaven or to hell. There is no scripture that says that. The word "Predestinated" only appears in the Bible four times, not once in the four times does the Bible say that God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. If this causes a problem for some, I say, "Let God be true and everyone a liar".

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I am a woman. I can prove if need be.

How do you propose to do that... one a talkboard?

 

[Jay Ross]

How do you propose to do that... one a talkboard? View attachment 40903

Show a mug shot like yours. LOL

 

[Ritajanice]

I see that someone has derailed my thread. The Gospel causes contention. I didn't invent the Gospel. Paul said, "The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Paul did not say that Calvinism is the power of God unto salvation. As a matter of fact, Paul never said that anyone would be predestinated to heaven or to hell. There is no scripture that says that.

◄ Ephesians 1:11 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, New Living Translation Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan. English Standard Version In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Berean Standard Bible In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,

The word "Predestinated" only appears in the Bible four times, not once in the four times does the Bible say that God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. If this causes a problem for some, I say, "Let God be true and everyone a liar".

John 15​

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King James Version​

​

​

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

 

[Lambano]

How do you propose to do that.

Hopefully just with a birth certificate. I know what you're thinking...

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Hopefully just with a birth certificate. I know what you're thinking...

How do you know what I'm thinking? Astro projection?

This is an internet talkboard... just tell them you are of the female
persuasion and it's not your concern if some decide to not take your word for it.

You don't have to prove anything to anybody.

 

[Robert Pate]

​

◄ Ephesians 1:11 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, New Living Translation Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan. English Standard Version In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, Berean Standard Bible In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,

John 15​

​

King James Version​

​

​

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

I, who am not a Calvinist believe that all of that scripture pertains to me and is for me.

 

[Ritajanice]

I, who am not a Calvinist believe that all of that scripture pertains to me and is for me.

At least we agree on that.

 

[Red Baker]

I, who am not a Calvinist believe that all of that scripture pertains to me and is for me.

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

 

[Robert Pate]

What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ will determine where you will spend eternity.

Calvinist believe that God is a heartless tyrant that predestinates people to hell before they are born.

 

[Red Baker]

What you believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ will determine where you will spend eternity.

Calvinist believe that God is a heartless tyrant that predestinates people to hell before they are born.

Robert, do you sing songs like:

• "Rock of Ages" by Augustus Toplady (a well-known Calvinist preacher)
• "Amazing Grace" by John Newton

• A Mighty Fortress Is Our God (Luther)​

• Come Thou Fount (Robinson)​

• There Is a Fountain (Cowper)​

• It Is Well (Spafford)​

• The Solid Rock (Mote)​

• This Is My Father’s World (Babcock/Sheppard)​

• When I Survey the Wondrous Cross (Watts)​

• Be Thou My Vision (Forgaill)​

Just to named a few of hundreds more that could be mention.

You should never sing these songs, believing the way you profess to believe, or, repent of saying such untrue words about children of God in the past whom neither you or myself are likely not worthy to wash their feet.

​

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Calvinist believe that God is a heartless tyrant that predestinates people to hell before they are born.

This is true... and you never hear a guy claiming to be calvinist come up and say... "I'm one of the ones the Lord decided to not be elect, so I won't be joining you fellas in Heaven... I'm doomed"

No no, the calvinists always claim they are righteous and nobody else is.

 

[Red Baker]

This is true... and you never hear a guy claiming to be calvinist come up and say... "I'm one of the ones the Lord decided to not be elect, so I won't be joining you fellas in Heaven... I'm doomed"

No no, the calvinists always claim they are righteous and nobody else is.

So, I ask you the same question I asked in post #675: Do you sing those songs written by men who were Calvinist? If, so, then you are guilty of being a hypocrite, singing one thing, yet hating the very doctrines you sing about!

 

[Logikos]

To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is the height of spiritual depravity. You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is to believe that God is an unjust, unrighteous, unmerciful, tyrant. The Bible plainly teaches that God's people are justified by faith. They are justified by faith in God and his righteousness.

Paul wrote, "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus., Romans 3:26. It is not possible to believe that God is righteous when he condemns people to hell before they are born. We believe that God and his Son Jesus Christ are righteous and can be trusted. This results in our justification. If you don't believe that God and Jesus Christ are righteous, then you are not a Christian. The God of Calvinism is unrighteous and is depraved. It is not spiritually possible to have faith in the God of Calvinism.

What you believe God is like will be reflected in the way that you live. If you believe that God is merciful, you will be merciful also. John Calvin was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Christians. He was known as the tyrant of Genevia. If you want to know more about John Calvin, google, "The Recorded Atrocities of John Calvin". To say that John Calvin was depraved might be an understatement. Because he was depraved, he invented a depraved religion and named it after himself.

There are dozens and dozens of scriptures that refute Calvinism. The most hated scripture of Calvinism is John 3:16. "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever that believes in him should not perish". They also hate the words "Whosoever" "All" "Everyone" "World". We have a responsibility to preach the Gospel to everyone regardless of what they believe. If you decide to take on these poor lost souls stick with the scriptures and keep your cool.

I agree with virtually every syllable of this except that John Calvin didn't invent his doctrine, he simply wrote it down. Calvinism is little more that a reformation version of Augustinianism which has been around since the 5th century. Luther was an Augustinian monk and so Augustine's doctrine survived the Reformation very much intact. Calvin gets credit for it because he's the one who wrote "Institutes" and thereby canonized the doctrine, for want of a better term.

Otherwise, your post is dead on accurate. The righteous character of God is the single point of fact that anyone need know in order to falsify the entire system that we call Calvinism today. It isn't just false, its blasphemy.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, do you sing songs like:

• "Rock of Ages" by Augustus Toplady (a well-known Calvinist preacher)
• "Amazing Grace" by John Newton

• A Mighty Fortress Is Our God (Luther)​

• Come Thou Fount (Robinson)​

• There Is a Fountain (Cowper)​

• It Is Well (Spafford)​

• The Solid Rock (Mote)​

• This Is My Father’s World (Babcock/Sheppard)​

• When I Survey the Wondrous Cross (Watts)​

• Be Thou My Vision (Forgaill)​

Just to named a few of hundreds more that could be mention.

You should never sing these songs, believing the way you profess to believe, or, repent of saying such untrue words about children of God in the past whom neither you or myself are likely not worthy to wash their feet.

​

All of those songs are the words of men, and some are in conflict with the Bible. We are saved by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8. Plus nothing.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I agree with virtually every syllable of this except that John Calvin didn't invent his doctrine, he simply wrote it down. Calvinism is little more that a reformation version of Augustinianism which has been around since the 5th century. Luther was an Augustinian monk and so Augustine's doctrine survived the Reformation very much intact. Calvin gets credit for it because he's the one who wrote "Institutes" and thereby canonized the doctrine, for want of a better term.

Otherwise, your post is dead on accurate. The righteous character of God is the single point of fact that anyone need know in order to falsify the entire system that we call Calvinism today. It isn't just false, its blasphemy.

My personal opinion is that both Robert and you are spot on.

It has always bothered me the predestined to hell idea.

He did not need to be the founder of this idea but he is the one who brought it to the forefront and exploding in such a way that I have never met a Calvinist or predestined person willing or wanting to change their minds for somehow they all are comforted with their beliefs.

Carry on