Calvinism

[Waiting on him]

I meant exactly what I said - no more and no less.

I made a very simple statement and wanted to see if who would make assumptions. The reason is that if one makes assumptions on my simple comment then how on earth can they be trusted not to make assumptions with God's Word?

If their one a second can’t exist.

 

[Willie T]

It has been a strangely prevalent occurrence that I have come to notice on just about all "religious" forums...…. that most people seem to feel they might be failing as "Christians" if they cannot state a definite stance in an unrelentingly positive manner to any and all questions ever posed.

 

[John Caldwell]

John I'm done playing games. Answer the following questions yes or no.

1. Is there a Trinity?
2. If so, is the Trinity three distinct persons yet one God?
3. If so, is it God the Father, the first person, God the Son, the second person, and God the Spirit, the third person?

Yes or no. No spin. No twists, just yes or no.

I do believe that God is One. And I believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit comprise the Godhead.

I hold a Classic (early) definition of the Trinity and try to avoid the accompanying philosophy as much as I can. It is enough for me to know that I can only know the Father through Christ by the power of the Spirit and that they are one. It keeps my eye on Christ rather than on various philosophies.

 

[John Caldwell]

If their one a second can’t exist.

Quite often Scripture states as fact truths it does not seem necessary to explain. Have you ever considered how much the early church accepted without a need to "figure it out"? That's the difference between spiritual truth and human wisdom. Calvinism is Christian themed, but in the end it is merely human wisdom. And this from a former Calvinistic preacher.

 

[reformed1689]

I do believe that God is One. And I believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit comprise the Godhead.

I hold a Classic (early) definition of the Trinity and try to avoid the accompanying philosophy as much as I can. It is enough for me to know that I can only know the Father through Christ by the power of the Spirit and that they are one. It keeps my eye on Christ rather than on various philosophies.

Yes or no on the questions John.

 

[reformed1689]

I meant exactly what I said - no more and no less.

I made a very simple statement and wanted to see if who would make assumptions. The reason is that if one makes assumptions on my simple comment then how on earth can they be trusted not to make assumptions with God's Word?

An assumption would be me saying you said something. I didn't assume, I asked for clarification. Once again you twist words to deceive.

 

[Mjh29]

Yes or no on the questions John.

Straight answers?

 

[reformed1689]

Actually, Biblically, we don't truly know the answers to any of those questions.

So do you deny the Trinity?

 

[Mjh29]

The Westminster confession of Faith

Chapter 2 - Of God, and of the Holy Trinity.
Section 1.) There is but one only(1) living and true God,(2) who is infinite in being and perfection,(3) a most pure spirit,(4) invisible,(5) without body, parts,(6) or passions;(7) immutable,(8) immense,(9) eternal,(10) incomprehensible,(11) almighty,(12) most wise,(13) most holy,(14) most free,(15) most absolute,(16) working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will,(17) for His own glory;(18) most loving,(19) gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin,(20) the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him;(21) and withal, most just, and terrible in His judgments;(22) hating all sin,(23) and who will by no means clear the guilty.(24)
(1) Dt 6:4; 1Co 8:4,6 (2) 1Th 1:9; Jer 10:10 (3) Job 11:7,8,9; Job 26:14 (4) Jn 4:24 (5) 1Ti 1:17 (6) Dt 4:15,16; Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39 (7) Ac 14:11,15 (8) Jas 1:17; Mal 3:6 (9) 1Ki 8:27; Jer 23:23,24 (10) Ps 90:2;1Ti 1:17 (11) Ps 145:3 (12) Ge 17:1; Rev 4:8 (13) Ro 16:27 (14) Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8 (15) Ps 15:3 (16) Ex 3:14 (17) Eph 1:11 (18) Pr 16:4; Ro 11:36 (19) 1Jn 4:8,16 (20) Ex 34:6,7 (21) Heb 11:6 (22) Ne 9:32,33 (23) Ps 5:5,6 (24) Nah. 1:2,3; Ex 34:7
------------------------------------
Section 2.) God hath all life,(1) glory,(2) goodness,(3) blessedness,(4) in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made,(5) not deriving any glory from them,(6) but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them: He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things,(7) and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleaseth.(8) In His sight all things are open and manifest;(9) His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,(10) so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain.(11) He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands.(12) To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them.(13)
(1) Jn 5:26 (2) Ac 7:2 (3) Ps 119:68 (4) 1Ti 6:15; Ro 9:5 (5) Ac 17:24,25 (6) Job 22:2,3 (7) Ro 11:36 (8) Rev 4:11; 1Ti 6:15; Da 4:25,35 (9) Heb 4:13 (10) Ro 11:33,34; Ps 147:5 (11) Ac 15:18; Eze 11:5 (12) Ps 145:17 ; Ro 7:12 (13) Rev 5:12,13,14
------------------------------------
Section 3.) In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.(1) The Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;(2) the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.(3)
(1) 1Jn 5:7; Mt 3:16,17; Mt 28:19; 2Co 13:14 (2) Jn 1:14,18 (3) Jn 15:26; Gal 4:6
------------------------------------


I believe he means THIS Trinity

 

[John Caldwell]

Yes or no on the questions John.

Is there a Trinity? No, of course not. That's a rather stupid and offensive question. The word "Trinity" is a philosophical expression to refer to a specific understanding of God. God is not a thing. There is the Godhead which refers to the Father, Son, and Spirit as One God.

If so, is the Trinity three distinct persons yet one God? N/A - God is not a thing. How are you defining "person"

If so, is it God the Father, the first person, God the Son, the second person, and God the Spirit, the third person? In the Godhead there is the Father, Son, and Spirit. Scripture does not provide orders, but states that Christ became obedient to the Father and that the Father and Son sent the Spirit. In Genesis the Word is seen as proceeding from God and the Spirit moving among the face of the waters. But no, there is not a numeric order assigned to Father, Son, and Spirit.

 

[reformed1689]

Is there a Trinity? No, of course not. That's a rather stupid and offensive question. The word "Trinity" is a philosophical expression to refer to a specific understanding of God. God is not a thing. There is the Godhead which refers to the Father, Son, and Spirit as One God.

This is contradictory. You have no idea what you believe or don't believe. I suggest you figure it out.

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 9:6 KJV
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Tecarta Bible

 

[John Caldwell]

This is contradictory. You have no idea what you believe or don't believe. I suggest you figure it out.

Like I said....if my words prove beyond your grasp how can you be trusted with God's?

 

[reformed1689]

Like I said....if my words prove beyond your grasp how can you be trusted with God's?

Nothing was beyond my grasp. Your statements indeed contradicted each other.

 

[Willie T]

Is there a Trinity? No, of course not. That's a rather stupid and offensive question. The word "Trinity" is a philosophical expression to refer to a specific understanding of God. God is not a thing. There is the Godhead which refers to the Father, Son, and Spirit as One God.

If so, is the Trinity three distinct persons yet one God? N/A - God is not a thing. How are you defining "person"

If so, is it God the Father, the first person, God the Son, the second person, and God the Spirit, the third person? In the Godhead there is the Father, Son, and Spirit. Scripture does not provide orders, but states that Christ became obedient to the Father and that the Father and Son sent the Spirit. In Genesis the Word is seen as proceeding from God and the Spirit moving among the face of the waters. But no, there is not a numeric order assigned to Father, Son, and Spirit.

I think a lot of this speculation comes from a need we keep trying to satisfy to be able to (by our own limited logic) quantify and qualify things... including the very power that created us. We think we HAVE to put things into the neat little boxes we have fashioned.

 

[John Caldwell]

I think a lot of this speculation comes from a need we keep trying to satisfy to be able to (by our own limited logic) quantify and qualify things... including the power that created us. We think we HAVE to put things into the neat little boxes we have fashioned.

I agree. I think the problem comes in when we become unable to distinguish the boxes we build from the Word they are built around.

 

[John Caldwell]

Nothing was beyond my grasp. Your statements indeed contradicted each other.

I know you think they do. But you also think "wage" and "penalty" are interchangeable words so I can take that misunderstanding with a grain of salt .

 

[reformed1689]

I know you think they do. But you also think "wage" and "penalty" are interchangeable words so I can take that misunderstanding with a grain of salt .

No I do not think they are interchangeable words. But in the context of that one verse they are.

 

[John Caldwell]

No I do not think they are interchangeable words. But in the context of that one verse they are.

Only because you have predetermined what you want the verse to say. There is no reason to take the wages of sin to be the punishment for sin (I believe there is a punishment for sin, but it is not physical death). Judgment has always been beyond death.

 

[reformed1689]

Only because you have predetermined what you want the verse to say.

Strawman

There is no reason to take the wages of sin to be the punishment for sin (I believe there is a punishment for sin, but it is not physical death).

You get it from the context John. There is no other way to read it.