Can a tare become saved?

[grafted branch]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium. If Satan is bound and unable to deceive then it would seem to be possible for an undeceived tare to recognize they are a tare and accept Jesus as their savior. However in Matthew 13:40 the tares are gathered and burned in the fire.

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved? And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

 

[Aunty Jane]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

It also helps to understand what plant or weed Jesus was referring to…..as you said, a plant cannot change from one species to another and these are two very different species…..one is a useful, harmless plant…the other a noxious weed.
The weed in question is believed to be “bearded darnel” and it is a common weed in the Middle East.
It resembles wheat in the early growing phase, so much so that it is almost impossible to tell the difference until it reaches a certain stage, but by then the root systems are so entangled that you cannot uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them.

It is called “wheat’s evil twin” by some, and in Bible times was used to decimate a neighbors crop to reduce his yield….enemies often did this as sabotage.

It was an excellent illustration because of the characteristics of this weed. It mimicked the wheat until it was well established, and then at the harvest it will decimate the final crop as the weeds are harvested along with the wheat and destroyed. These weeds are counterfeit Christians planted by the devil, so his aim is to decimate the yield at the harvest time, but God already knows which are which….but he has to show us in real life what these counterfeit Christians look like.

At first it was hard to tell the difference but as the faith grew, so did the weeds….until they were firmly entrenched. They were to grow along with the wheat “in the world” until the harvest, and as we have seen there are so many weed-like churches teaching things that Jesus never did, but who have the world confused as to what he taught and why.
This in turn leads the majority to either pick one, sit on the fence (but there isn’t one) or ditch religion altogether.

For those who have a strong relationship with God and his Christ through a thorough study of his word, they stick to what they know to be the truth, but others struggle with how many unanswered questions there are.

For genuine Christians, they know what Christ taught as per Scripture, and not from what masquerades as a Christian education facility…..a “theological seminary” or college, which only teaches doctrines of the church with a few verses in support, rather than the whole truth as taught in the Bible.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium. If Satan is bound and unable to deceive then it would seem to be possible for an undeceived tare to recognize they are a tare and accept Jesus as their savior. However in Matthew 13:40 the tares are gathered and burned in the fire.

Satan and his minions have been confined to the vicinity of the earth for a long time now as indicated by the decline in standards of morality and an increase in violence.….both in reality and in Cyberspace.
Jesus used the days of Noah to indicate how bad it was going to get by the time of his return as judge. (Matt 24:37-39) So here we are, witnessing the end of morality as taught in the Bible, and substituted by the loose standards of wicked humanity.

It is almost time for the “harvest”…and the “weeds” are the first to go, along with the world that satan has under his complete control. (1 John 5:19)

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

And that is exactly what we are seeing…..who else but the devil could be responsible for the evil trends we see taking over the world at present, and especially in countries who are living under democratic rule, having had the illusion of freedom for a long time, but being controlled in a more subtle way. What is shaping up is very confronting, but not unexpected.

The total control that is being planned is prophesied in Revelation. It is the rule of the “eighth king” and according to prophesy, it will be very short.
At Rev 17:9-11, the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees “an eighth king” that “springs from the seven.” This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king “goes off into destruction,” after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.
We are living in the time of the seventh king…..the rule of the eighth is pending…..

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved? And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

I do not believe so…a tare can imitate wheat for a while but cannot keep up the masquerade….it will fall into outright disobedience and end up being the opposite of what Jesus described as the traits of his sheep. “By their fruits” Jesus said we would identify his true disciples, so the will be ”no part of this world“, not supporting its corrupt rulership in any way. They will be at peace with one another, without division or dissention. (1 Cor 1:10) And they will stand up for what is right when Bible principles are misrepresented or ignored by those who claim to be followers of Christ. But like their master, they will not be well received because people don’t like the truth when it argues with what they want to believe. (John 15:18-21)

How can satan be bound if he is allowed to wreak such havoc in the world? He is angry, knowing that he has only a short time left. (Rev 12:7-12)

When satan is bound, the world will return to the peaceful place it was meant to be, while God undoes all the damage he has inflicted on us and our planet.

 

[Brakelite]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium. If Satan is bound and unable to deceive then it would seem to be possible for an undeceived tare to recognize they are a tare and accept Jesus as their savior. However in Matthew 13:40 the tares are gathered and burned in the fire.

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved? And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

Why focus so much on Satan, and not the power of God to save even the worst of sinners?

 

[grafted branch]

I do not believe so…a tare can imitate wheat for a while but cannot keep up the masquerade….it will fall into outright disobedience and end up being the opposite of what Jesus described as the traits of his sheep. “By their fruits” Jesus said we would identify his true disciples, so the will be ”no part of this world“, not supporting its corrupt rulership in any way.

Thanks for your explanation.

I agree, I don’t think it’s possible for a tare to become saved. We can’t know for certain who is or isn’t a tare and we are not to judge someone else in this manner. We witness to everyone and pray for all to be saved but I think one point of the parable is that a tare will never become saved.

 

[grafted branch]

Why focus so much on Satan, and not the power of God to save even the worst of sinners?

Because all scriptures should be considered for doctrine. The parable of the tares is teaching us something, and it appears to show some conflicts that we should try to resolve.

There is definitely an element of the free will vs election debate in the parable along with whether Satan is bound or not. If one believes in free will they may be hesitant to claim a tare can’t be saved but then I would think they would also be hesitant to say Satan can fully deceive.

Personally I think the parable of the weeds is referring to the time when the old covenant was in force through to the time the old covenant finally vanished. But I would like to see how others view this parable and its apparent conflicts.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium. If Satan is bound and unable to deceive then it would seem to be possible for an undeceived tare to recognize they are a tare and accept Jesus as their savior. However in Matthew 13:40 the tares are gathered and burned in the fire.

Can you please stop misrepresenting Amil? I've told you that you don't understand Amil and that is a fact. So, please don't try to speak for Amils. I showed you the Amil understanding of his binding. Did I ever say that his binding means he can't deceive anyone? No. Go back and read what I said about that again a few times or as many times as it takes to understasnd what Amils actually believe about his binding. We don't see it as him being completely incapacitated and unable to deceive anyone.

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved? And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

Yes, a tare can become saved. Jesus said the tares are children of the wicked one (Satan). Are you somehow not aware that you were a child of the wicked one before you repented and became saved? Doesn't your own life prove that a tare can be saved?

But, part of what Jesus was talking about was the end of the age. So, whoever is part of the wheat (children of the kingdom) at that point will inherit "the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:43) while anyone who is a tare at that point will be cast into the fire.

The fact that many tares have been saved supports the belief that Satan was bound since the death of Christ on the cross. Think of how many Gentiles were saved in OT times. Not many. Compare that to how many Gentiles have been saved in NT times. A great multitude from every nation (Revelation 7:9). That was not possible without Jesus taking the power of death away from Satan and delivering many tares (children of the wicked one) from being in bondage to the fear of death and giving them the hope of eternal life (Hebrews 2:14-15).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thanks for your explanation.

I agree, I don’t think it’s possible for a tare to become saved. We can’t know for certain who is or isn’t a tare and we are not to judge someone else in this manner. We witness to everyone and pray for all to be saved but I think one point of the parable is that a tare will never become saved.

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

So, the tares represent those who are currently children of the wicked one (Satan). Are you not aware that many wicked people have repented of their sins and become saved? How can you think that a tare, which is a person who is not currently saved, can't become saved when that has happened millions of times?

Look at this...

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and scribes there, but anyone who does not have God as their Father, which is the case for all unbelievers, are children of the devil because they act like the devil by lying and sinning with no repentance. Haven't we all been there at least to some extent before we were saved? Of course.

Yet, some of those people who Jesus said had the devil as their father later repented and became saved. In Romans 11, Paul said the unbelieving Israelites, including the Pharisees and scribes, were blinded and cut off from the kingdom of God. But, that was only temporary while the gospel went to the Gentiles. Once it went to the Gentiles, the intention was for the salvation of the Gentiles to make the blinded Israelites who were children of the devil to be provoked to jealousy so that they too would want to be saved. That's what Paul talked about here:

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Can you see here how Paul hoped to lead some of those who would be considered tares (children of the wicked one) to salvation? And, I'm sure he succeeded.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

If I am right, the Wheat/Tares parable depicts the teachers and preachers of Jesus and Satan. Jesus sows the wheat and Satan sows the tares. Jesus' teachers lead the followers of Jesus, and Satan's teachers lead people to destruction.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium.

Throughout history, Satan has persistently shrouded humanity in darkness, perpetuating ignorance and despair. This malevolent force will continue its efforts to ensnare souls in confusion and deceit. In contrast, Jesus, in His infinite wisdom, has sent the Spirit of Truth to reveal the reality of sin and impending judgment. This divine presence works tirelessly to illuminate minds, soften hardened hearts, and awaken the consciousness of individuals, guiding them toward understanding and redemption. The Spirit's mission will persist, casting light in the shadows, until the moment arrives when He is withdrawn from the world. At that time, the figure of lawlessness will emerge, bringing with him a new era of darkness.

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved?

On the one hand, if we discuss what Jesus's parable meant, then the tares aren't saved by definition. On the other hand, if we discuss the power of God, then we know that anyone who is in darkness can see the light and be saved.

And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

If Satan is "bound," yet evil and deception clearly persist, it can feel like a theological workaround rather than a clear, straightforward truth. If Satan is truly "bound" in the way Revelation describes (cast into a pit and sealed), then any ongoing activity on his part seems logically inconsistent. A chained beast, a restrained prisoner—these analogies allow for some level of influence, but the image in Revelation 20 is much more absolute.

If John had simply wanted to convey restriction, a prison metaphor would have worked just fine. But he deliberately chose a pit, which carries a sense of complete isolation, not just limitation. The imagery suggests something cut off from influence, not merely restrained in function. Why would John use such an extreme image for something that's only partially effective?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Can you please stop misrepresenting Amil? I've told you that you don't understand Amil and that is a fact. So, please don't try to speak for Amils. I showed you the Amil understanding of his binding. Did I ever say that his binding means he can't deceive anyone? No. Go back and read what I said about that again a few times or as many times as it takes to understasnd what Amils actually believe about his binding. We don't see it as him being completely incapacitated and unable to deceive anyone.

Try to curb your emotions. The Amillennial position concerning Satan is nonsensical, which is why you are embarrassed to hold it.

The claim that Satan is "bound," yet evil and deception clearly persist, is an obvious "kluge," like a theological workaround rather than a clear, straightforward truth. Amillennialists would argue that his binding is specific and limited—restricting him from preventing the spread of the gospel to the nations rather than eliminating his influence entirely.

If Satan is truly "bound" in the way Revelation describes (cast into a pit and sealed), then any ongoing activity on his part seems logically inconsistent. A chained beast, a restrained prisoner—these analogies allow for some level of influence, but the image in Revelation 20 is much more absolute.

If John had simply wanted to convey restriction, a prison metaphor would have worked just fine. But he deliberately chose a pit, which carries a sense of complete isolation, not just limitation. The imagery suggests something cut off from influence, not merely restrained in function.

If Satan is still active—albeit in a diminished role—it makes the absolute nature of the pit metaphor feel mismatched with what amillennialists claim. It raises an important question: Why would John use such an extreme image for something that’s only partial in effect?

He wouldn't. Therefore Amillennialism is wrong.

 

[grafted branch]

So, the tares represent those who are currently children of the wicked one (Satan). Are you not aware that many wicked people have repented of their sins and become saved? How can you think that a tare, which is a person who is not currently saved, can't become saved when that has happened millions of times?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It was impossible for those in Hebrews 6 to become saved, they are the tares. The scribes and Pharisees did understand that Messiah was coming, they were enlightened. Once they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and became the children of the wicked one, there was no hope for them.

 

[grafted branch]

On the one hand, if we discuss what Jesus's parable meant, then the tares aren't saved by definition. On the other hand, if we discuss the power of God, then we know that anyone who is in darkness can see the light and be saved.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

I agree with you, I don’t think the parable is meant to convey that there is no free will, only that there are some people who are “sown” by Satan and they never become saved while at the same time there are those who are “sown” by the Son of man and they are never lost.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Try to curb your emotions.

Okay, Mr. Internet Policeman. You don't know how frustrating it is to explain something to someone as many times as I have explained Amil to him and he still misrepresents it. So, I can react to that however I want.

The Amillennial position concerning Satan is nonsensical, which is why you are embarrassed to hold it.

LOL. I am not embarrassed by it whatsoever. Why do you think it's okay to lie? You have lied many times on this forum. Don't you know that the devil is the father of lies? Do you want the devil to be your father?

The claim that Satan is "bound," yet evil and deception clearly persist, is an obvious "kluge," like a theological workaround rather than a clear, straightforward truth. Amillennialists would argue that his binding is specific and limited—restricting him from preventing the spread of the gospel to the nations rather than eliminating his influence entirely.

If Satan is truly "bound" in the way Revelation describes (cast into a pit and sealed), then any ongoing activity on his part seems logically inconsistent. A chained beast, a restrained prisoner—these analogies allow for some level of influence, but the image in Revelation 20 is much more absolute.

If John had simply wanted to convey restriction, a prison metaphor would have worked just fine. But he deliberately chose a pit, which carries a sense of complete isolation, not just limitation. The imagery suggests something cut off from influence, not merely restrained in function.

If Satan is still active—albeit in a diminished role—it makes the absolute nature of the pit metaphor feel mismatched with what amillennialists claim. It raises an important question: Why would John use such an extreme image for something that’s only partial in effect?

He wouldn't. Therefore Amillennialism is wrong.

Your argument is weak and comes from a carnal perspective.

Tell me, does the following passage describe the complete incapacitation of the strong man?

Matthew 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Tell me, does the following talk about "the working of Satan" being completely incapacitated before the coming of "that wicked" (the man of sin) or does it talk about it being restrained, but not fully restrained before being loosed in conjunction with iniquity no longer being restrained and the coming of "that wicked"?

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Throughout history, Satan has persistently shrouded humanity in darkness, perpetuating ignorance and despair. This malevolent force will continue its efforts to ensnare souls in confusion and deceit. In contrast, Jesus, in His infinite wisdom, has sent the Spirit of Truth to reveal the reality of sin and impending judgment. This divine presence works tirelessly to illuminate minds, soften hardened hearts, and awaken the consciousness of individuals, guiding them toward understanding and redemption. The Spirit's mission will persist, casting light in the shadows, until the moment arrives when He is withdrawn from the world. At that time, the figure of lawlessness will emerge, bringing with him a new era of darkness.

Would you agree that Jesus had to take the power of death away from Satan (Hebrews 2:14-15) and destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) in order for what you're talking about to happen up until that "new era of darkness" comes, which Amills call "Satan's little season"?

If John had simply wanted to convey restriction, a prison metaphor would have worked just fine. But he deliberately chose a pit, which carries a sense of complete isolation, not just limitation.

It is a prison metaphor.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The imagery suggests something cut off from influence, not merely restrained in function. Why would John use such an extreme image for something that's only partially effective?

It describes a dragon being chained up with "a great chain". So, it's not just a short chain that completely removes mobility. That does suggest restraint instead of being completely incapacitated.

What is your understanding of the locusts in the bottomless pit in Revelation 9? Many ,including me, believe they symbolically describe fallen angels and it is said they are not loosed from the pit until the fifth trumpet. I don't think it's reasonable to think that the fallen angels are completely inactive for all that time.

What is your understanding of the beast?

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Notice that at the time John was writing this, the beast "is not" because it was in the bottomless pit. And, yet, one of the heads of the beast "is". How can being in the bottomless pit have to do with being completely restrained and incapacitated if one of the heads of the beast "is" at the same time the beast "is not"? It seems that if the beast was completely incapacitated then John would have said that the sixth head of the beast "is not" and is in the bottomless pit as well.

 

[Davidpt]

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium.

Logically, that's what the Amil view should have happening if Amil was actually true. But since Amil isn't true that's why the Amil view doesn't agree with the text. Instead of what the text plainly says--that he should deceive the nations no more while he is bound---Amil can't have it meaning that because they know in the real world he is still deceiving the nations.

If that's not bad enough, Amils are then claiming that tares can become wheat somehow. In the real world since it's using real world imagery of wheat and tares, only someone that has lost touch with reality would ever claim tares can become wheat, thus no longer be tares.

Some interpreters just don't grasp that if Jesus or anyone else uses real world imagery to make a point, the imagery being used can't mean one thing in the real world then mean something entirely different in the Bible. That's not even reasonable, don't know how anyone with any level of intelligence could think it is.

In the real world tares resemble wheat in it's early stages. In the real world tares can never become wheat, ever. But let's just contradict reality and insist tares can become wheat in the Bible. What does the wheat represent in the parable? What it represents, the tares are trying to resemble it. Are atheists, for example, trying to resemble wheat? No. Are wolves in sheep's clothing trying to resemble wheat? Yes. There you go then, tares are not meaning all the lost in general they are meaning the wolves in sheep's clothing in the body of Christ. They are meaning the ones Jesus says to in Matthew 7, that He never knew them.

Speaking of Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Are these same interpreters going to remain consistent and claim these too are meaning the lost in general, which would include atheists, satanists, unbelieving Jews, etc? Or are they going to actually interpret this verse correctly by admitting it can't be including unbelieving Jews, etc? Hmm...if so, what do you know, they can discern the correct context sometimes after all yet can't discern the correct context pertaining to the identity of the tares even though throughout Matthew 7 it clearly identifies them for us. They then have the tares meaning all the lost in general, which includes atheists, satanists, unbelieving Jews, etc even though Matthew 7 already helps identify them.

In their mind though I'm the one that is wrong here not them. Which means if true, I'm wrong because the Bible is wrong, because it's from the Bible where I'm getting this from to begin with.

 

[grafted branch]

If that's not bad enough, Amils are then claiming that tares can become wheat somehow. In the real world since it's using real world imagery of wheat and tares, only someone that has lost touch with reality would ever claim tares can become wheat, thus no longer be tares.

Yea, absolutely, in reality a tare can’t become wheat. A basic definition of parable that many people use is “an earthly story with a heavenly meaning”.

I guess in this case if the earthly story is tares might become wheat then the heavenly meaning of the parable would be the parable itself is never going to happen.

 

[Davidpt]

It also helps to understand what plant or weed Jesus was referring to…..as you said, a plant cannot change from one species to another and these are two very different species…..one is a useful, harmless plant…the other a noxious weed.
The weed in question is believed to be “bearded darnel” and it is a common weed in the Middle East.
It resembles wheat in the early growing phase, so much so that it is almost impossible to tell the difference until it reaches a certain stage, but by then the root systems are so entangled that you cannot uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them.

It is called “wheat’s evil twin” by some, and in Bible times was used to decimate a neighbors crop to reduce his yield….enemies often did this as sabotage.

It was an excellent illustration because of the characteristics of this weed. It mimicked the wheat until it was well established, and then at the harvest it will decimate the final crop as the weeds are harvested along with the wheat and destroyed. These weeds are counterfeit Christians planted by the devil, so his aim is to decimate the yield at the harvest time, but God already know which are which….but he has to show us in real life what these counterfeit Christians look like.

At first it was hard to tell the difference but as the faith grew, so did the weeds….until they were firmly entrenched. They were to grow along with the wheat “in the world” until the harvest, and as we have seen there are so many weed-like churches teaching things that Jesus never did, but who have the world confused as to what he taught and why.
This in turn leads the majority to either pick one, sit on the fence (but there isn’t one) or ditch religion altogether.

For those who have a strong relationship with God and his Christ through a thorough study of his word, they stick to what they know to be the truth, but others struggle with how many unanswered questions there are.

For genuine Christians, they know what Christ taught as per Scripture, and not from what masquerades as a Christian education facility…..a “theological seminary” or college, which only teaches doctrines of the church with a few verses in support, rather than the whole truth as taught in the Bible.

Satan and his minions have been confined to the vicinity of the earth for a long time now as indicated by the decline in standards of morality and an increase in violence.….both in reality and in Cyberspace.
Jesus used the days of Noah to indicate how bad it was going to get by the time of his return as judge. (Matt 24:37-39) So here we are, witnessing the end of morality as taught in the Bible, and substituted by the loose standards of wicked humanity.

It is almost time for the “harvest”…and the “weeds” are the first to go, along with the world that satan has under his complete control. (1 John 5:19)

And that is exactly what we are seeing…..who else but the devil could be responsible for the evil trends we see taking over the world at present, and especially in countries who are living under democratic rule, having had the illusion of freedom for a long time, but being controlled in a more subtle way. What is shaping up is very confronting, but not unexpected.

The total control that is being planned is prophesied in Revelation. It is the rule of the “eighth king” and according to prophesy, it will be very short.
At Rev 17:9-11, the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees “an eighth king” that “springs from the seven.” This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king “goes off into destruction,” after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.
We are living in the time of the seventh king…..the rule of the eighth is pending…..

I do not believe so…a tare can imitate wheat for a while but cannot keep up the masquerade….it will fall into outright disobedience and end up being the opposite of what Jesus described as the traits of his sheep. “By their fruits” Jesus said we would identify his true disciples, so the will be ”no part of this world“, not supporting its corrupt rulership in any way. They will be at peace with one another, without division or dissention. And they will stand up for what is right when Bible principles are misrepresented or ignored by those who claim to be followers of Christ. But like their master, they will not be well received because people don’t like the truth when it argues with what they want to believe. (John 15:18-21)

How can satan be bound if he is allowed to wreak such havoc in the world? He is angry, knowing that he has only a short time left. (Rev 12:7-12)

When satan is bound, the world will return to the peaceful place it was meant to be, while God undoes all the damage he has inflicted on us and our planet.

Yet someone else that understands some of these things in the same manner I do. Great post! Very well reasoned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Logically, that's what the Amil view should have happening if Amil was actually true. But since Amil isn't true that's why the Amil view doesn't agree with the text. Instead of what the text plainly says--that he should deceive the nations no more while he is bound---Amil can't have it meaning that because they know in the real world he is still deceiving the nations.

Premils don't give much thought to what it means for Satan to "deceive the nations". They give it very little thought and assume it has to do with Satan's ability to deceive in general. So, they think him being bound means he is unable to deceive at all and is completely incapacitated. But, is that really what it's saying? You have no idea because you don't even look into that with any depth at all.

What was Satan able to do in OT times? He held the power of death and was able to use that to keep people in bondage to the fear of death.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Because of what Jesus accomplished with His death, He was then raised by God the Father from the dead and the gospel of Christ went out into the world through the power of the Holy Spirit. Satan no longer held the power of death and Jesus then held the keys of hell and of death (Revelation 1:18), and that resulted in Satan no longer being able to deceive the nations in the sense of deceiving them into having no hope of eternal life or anything beyond death.

In OT times, the Gentiles mostly were "without hope and without God in the world".

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Why was this the case? Because Satan held the power of death and was able to keep them in slavery to the fear of death because of having no hope of anything beyond death.

But, then what happened?

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Jesus took the power of death away from Satan and that allowed those who were far away from God and enslaved by the fear of death near to God and His kingdom by the blood of Christ. That has resulted in "a great multitude" from all nations being saved (Revelation 7:9) after there previously were few saved in those nations. That couldn't happen without Satan being bound from deceiving the nations into having no hope because of the fear of death. This does not mean he can't deceive at all, but his binding meant that he couldn't try to deceive anymore without any opposition like he has had to do during NT times while battling against the opposition of the gospel of Christ going out into the world and bringing light into the world that was formerly in nearly complete darkness.

If that's not bad enough, Amils are then claiming that tares can become wheat somehow. In the real world since it's using real world imagery of wheat and tares, only someone that has lost touch with reality would ever claim tares can become wheat, thus no longer be tares.

Parables are not necessarily intended to be exact representations of the real world. Unless you think in the real world virgins roam around with lamps looking for their bridegroom? And if you think virgins in the real world who foolishly didn't take any oil with them for their lamps go and ask wise virgins for some oil?

Some interpreters just don't grasp that if Jesus or anyone else uses real world imagery to make a point, the imagery being used can't mean one thing in the real world then mean something entirely different in the Bible. That's not even reasonable, don't know how anyone with any level of intelligence could think it is.

Is it your goal to be offensive? What is wrong with you? Are these kinds of comments really necessary? Do you really think people like me lack "any level of intelligence"?

In the real world tares resemble wheat in it's early stages. In the real world tares can never become wheat, ever. But let's just contradict reality and insist tares can become wheat in the Bible. What does the wheat represent in the parable? What it represents, the tares are trying to resemble it. Are atheists, for example, trying to resemble wheat? No. Are wolves in sheep's clothing trying to resemble wheat? Yes. There you go then, tares are not meaning all the lost in general they are meaning the wolves in sheep's clothing in the body of Christ. They are meaning the ones Jesus says to in Matthew 7, that He never knew them.

Speaking of Matthew 7.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Are these same interpreters going to remain consistent and claim these too are meaning the lost in general, which would include atheists, satanists, unbelieving Jews, etc? Or are they going to actually interpret this verse correctly by admitting it can't be including unbelieving Jews, etc? Hmm...if so, what do you know, they can discern the correct context sometimes after all yet can't discern the correct context pertaining to the identity of the tares even though throughout Matthew 7 it clearly identifies them for us. They then have the tares meaning all the lost in general, which includes atheists, satanists, unbelieving Jews, etc even though Matthew 7 already helps identify them.

In their mind though I'm the one that is wrong here not them. Which means if true, I'm wrong because the Bible is wrong, because it's from the Bible where I'm getting this from to begin with.

As if those who disagree with you about this don't get our understanding from the Bible? We back up all of our beliefs with scripture and you know that. If we're misinterpreting the Bible, that's one thing, but we're not getting our view from our imaginations. We base it on scripture.

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

You can say all you want that tares in the real world can't become wheat, but Jesus said that "the tares are the children of the wicked one". He didn't say "the tares are the pretend children of the kingdom". All unbelievers are children of the wicked one (Satan). All unbelievers are against Jesus and all believers are with Jesus (Matthew 12:30) and are "children of the kingdom" (wheat). Yet, unbelievers can repent and become believers, so those who are currently children of the wicked one can repent and become children of the kingdom.

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Are those who are in the snare of the wicked one, the devil, not his children? Of course they are. This passage shows that they can escape from the snare of the devil and become children of the kingdom instead.

But, the parable is not about any of that. It is about what happens to the wheat and tares at the harvest, which represents the end of the age. Once the end of the age comes, then no tares (children of the wicked one) can be saved at that point and they will be cast into the fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Rockerduck]

I read the parable as a line in the sand. Everyone exists in the world together. Those are Satan's and Christ says these are my chosen. Straight up, Jesus Christ knows who belong to Him and the tares will be burnt. There is no crossing the line.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yea, absolutely, in reality a tare can’t become wheat. A basic definition of parable that many people use is “an earthly story with a heavenly meaning”.

I guess in this case if the earthly story is tares might become wheat then the heavenly meaning of the parable would be the parable itself is never going to happen.

The parable is primarily about the end of the age, so tares becoming wheat or wheat becoming tares or anything like that is not the point of the parable at all. The parable is about what happens to the wheat (children of the kingdom) and to the tares (children of the wicked one) at the end of the age.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

I agree with you, I don’t think the parable is meant to convey that there is no free will, only that there are some people who are “sown” by Satan and they never become saved while at the same time there are those who are “sown” by the Son of man and they are never lost.

Where is this concept taught in scripture? Who are these people that are sown by Satan and never have any opportunity to be saved?