Can a tare become saved?

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Spiritual Israelite

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John 6:28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing is work.
It's work in the sense that it's something we are required to do (Acts 16:30-31), but it is not the kind of work of which someone can boast about or else it would not be true that we are saved by grace through faith but not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Think about it. What is faith? It is the act of acknowledging that we can't save ourselves and we are trusting in Christ for our salvation instead. How could anyone boast about acknowledging that only the blood of Christ can save us rather than us being able to save ourselves? That's the opposite of boasting. Scripture never says that salvation is not by faith, it says that salvation is not by works of righteousness like providing shelter, food and clothing to the homeless and such.
 

Scott Downey

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Jude 1:1

Greeting to the Called​

Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2
Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.


As scripture says

Romans 8

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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How many times does it have to be shown to you that interpreting the parable that way has to be incorrect?
How many times do I have to tell you that I'm talking about what is the case for those who are the children of the kingdom? You and I are children of His kingdom right now, correct? Are we not in the world right now? Of course we are. But, are we of the world? No. We are of His kingdom instead. What is hard for you to understand about this?

If the word “world” means the entire planet then someone like Hitler should’ve been allowed to grow and increase with the rest of the world. Do you think we made a mistake in WWII? That is where your interpretation leads us.
That is only from the real time perspective that we have, but why do you keep forgetting that we agreed that the parable should be looked at from God's eternal perspective instead? Do you no longer believe that? From His eternal perspective, He sees who will end up as His children and who will not at the end of the age at which point they will be separated. From our real time perspective, we don't know which children of the devil will repent and become children of the kingdom and which will not.
 

Behold

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What is faith? It is the act of acknowledging that we can't save ourselves and we are trusting in Christ for our salvation instead.

Faith in Christ is the specific evidence found in our heart that God can SEE........which proves to Him that we have trusted in Christ, becaue Faith is the evidence found in the Heart of a believer regarding eternal things Hoped for, that we can't see for now.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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This is the work of God, that you believe(d), and continue to believe in His Son
I believe that view is based on Calvinist bias. It is not saying that our faith is God's work as Calvinists believe. Take a closer look at the context of that verse.

John 6:26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Notice here that Jesus was asked what work that God required them to do in order to obtain eternal life. Jesus did not say there is nothing that God requires them to do. Just as Paul and Silas did not tell the jailer that there was nothing he had to do after asking them what he had to do to be saved. Jesus gave them the same answer that Paul and Silas gave to the jailer's question in Acts 16:30-31. What they needed to do that God required was "to believe in the one he has sent". That was their responsibility to do that, not God's.

When you actually look at the context of John 6:29 by looking at the preceding verses, you should see that when Jesus said "This is the work of God", He was saying "The work God requires of you is this". That should be clear because He was answering the question about what works God required them to do "that endures to eternal life".

But, again, as I showed before, faith is not the kind of work of which one can boast or else it would not be true that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works that one could boast about (Ephesians 2:8-9). The act of faith is not an act relating to trying to earn one's salvation, but rather is the act of acknowledging that we can't save ourselves and need the blood of Jesus to save us and cover our sins instead. That's the opposite of boasting.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Faith in Christ is the specific evidence found in our heart that God can SEE........which proves to Him that we have trusted in Christ, becaue Faith is the evidence found in the Heart of a believer regarding eternal things Hoped for, that we can't see for now.
Right. That's basically what I was saying, but I just used different words to say it.
 

grafted branch

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It's work in the sense that it's something we are required to do (Acts 16:30-31), but it is not the kind of work of which someone can boast about or else it would not be true that we are saved by grace through faith but not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Think about it. What is faith? It is the act of acknowledging that we can't save ourselves and we are trusting in Christ for our salvation instead. How could anyone boast about acknowledging that only the blood of Christ can save us rather than us being able to save ourselves? That's the opposite of boasting. Scripture never says that salvation is not by faith, it says that salvation is not by works of righteousness like providing shelter, food and clothing to the homeless and such.
Right, a person has to be saved first then they do the work of believing. A verse such as John 3:16 is telling us that if we are doing the work of believing then that is the evidence we are saved, it’s not saying we do the work of believing first then we become saved.
 

grafted branch

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That is only from the real time perspective that we have, but why do you keep forgetting that we agreed that the parable should be looked at from God's eternal perspective instead? Do you no longer believe that? From His eternal perspective, He sees who will end up as His children and who will not at the end of the age at which point they will be separated. From our real time perspective, we don't know which children of the devil will repent and become children of the kingdom and which will not.
I still agree that the parable should be viewed from God’s perspective. However I have a different interpretation than you do, based on my interpretation a person like Hitler should’ve been stopped and we did the right thing in WWII.

A simple question for you, should we let someone like Hitler grow together with the rest of humanity or not? Yes or no?
 

Scott Downey

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The real perspective of our salvation is that it is both of our faith, and God's decree for His elect whom He chose.

That we are God's workmanship, meaning He directed the circumstances in our life to bring us to faith in His Son, and He did not do that for all people. We once were like the others, but we were not them. God had another plan. And that agrees with the scriptures.

Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Salvation is of the Lord, it is not a random event of circumstance in the life of any person.
 

Davidpt

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I still agree that the parable should be viewed from God’s perspective. However I have a different interpretation than you do, based on my interpretation a person like Hitler should’ve been stopped and we did the right thing in WWII.

A simple question for you, should we let someone like Hitler grow together with the rest of humanity or not? Yes or no?

Or we could even use unbelieving Jews to make your point. Especially millions of them in 70 AD who lost their lives as a result of God's wrath upon them at the time.


Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


If unbelieving Jews while in the state of unbelief also equals tares, does it even remotely sound like what happened to them in 70 AD resembles this---Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them---Let both grow together until the harvest

The ones who take unbelieving Jews to also be tares, are they going to argue that the harvest and the end of the world was in 70 AD in order to not contradict their interpretation that even unbelieving Jews are tares?

It seems to me that the ones that are meaning the tares, one is to leave them alone and bring no harm to them whatsoever, not even God should bring any harm upon them in the meantime. And then the time of the harvest will make all things right, thus the separation finally.
 
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Scott Downey

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You are surrounded by the tares, they are everywhere.
The angels know who is who, they can easily see that, both holy and fallen ( etc...demons, even though they are a little different).

God's people are sealed by the Lord for salvation, v22.
I have felt it myself from certain unbelievers, before and after talking with them, they seem to know I am a Christian. There is an enmity in them.
It could be such tares also have spiritual oppression from the devil working inside them.
Like the demon in the man in Acts who lept on the Jewish evangelists tearing them to pieces, knew Paul and Jesus and did not know them.

1 Cor 2
15 And in this confidence I intended to come to you before, that you might have a second benefit— 16 to pass by way of you to Macedonia, to come again from Macedonia to you, and be helped by you on my way to Judea. 17 Therefore, when I was planning this, did I do it lightly? Or the things I plan, do I plan according to the flesh, that with me there should be Yes, Yes, and No, No? 18 But as God is faithful, our [g]word to you was not Yes and No. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me, Silvanus, and Timothy—was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes. 20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.

21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

23 Moreover I call God as witness against my soul, that to spare you I came no more to Corinth. 24 Not that we [h]have dominion over your faith, but are fellow workers for your joy; for by faith you stand.
 

grafted branch

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The ones who take unbelieving Jews to also be tares, are they going to argue that the harvest and the end of the world was in 70 AD in order to not contradict their interpretation that even unbelieving Jews are tares?
Well you just pointed out why some people do see a coming and a harvest in 70AD. There is quite a bit of scripture that points to something happening when the old covenant economy (age) vanished and within that literal generation. It’s not like people are obsessed with 70AD, any more than someone might be obsessed with a future millennium, it’s just that that is where their method of interpretation leads them.
 

grafted branch

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You are surrounded by the tares, they are everywhere.
The angels know who is who, they can easily see that, both holy and fallen ( etc...demons, even though they are a little different).
In the parable the servants don’t even recognize tares were sown until the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit. Who are the servants in the parable? If they are the angels then we would have to conclude the angels aren’t aware of Satan’s activities and the angels don’t know who is or isn’t saved anymore than us humans do.
 

Davidpt

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Well you just pointed out why some people do see a coming and a harvest in 70AD.

But even so, not everyone does. So meaning the ones that don't, not the ones that do. The ones that don't, how do they square their view with the parable since 70 AD would contradict their view if they have unbelieving Jews also meaning the tares?
 
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grafted branch

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But even so, not everyone does. So meaning the ones that don't, not the ones that do. The ones that don't, how do they square their view with the parable since 70 AD would contradict their view if they have unbelieving Jews also meaning the tares?
Ok, that’s a good point. The Jews were dispersed in 70AD and if they were tares, then that Diaspora shouldn’t have happened, they should’ve been allowed to grow together.
 

Scott Downey

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In the parable the servants don’t even recognize tares were sown until the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit. Who are the servants in the parable? If they are the angels then we would have to conclude the angels aren’t aware of Satan’s activities and the angels don’t know who is or isn’t saved anymore than us humans do.
Devil planted them at night when they slept. It seems they sprouted up quickly and appear as tares when the good seed bear a crop.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.

In the parable, the good seed produced a good crop
The tares though are fruitless.
Anything the devil does is fruitless as in not bearing good fruit, and definitely bears bad fruit.

So that is how the workers could tell them apart
Tares simply use up the soil.

Matthew 3
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [a]and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

More examples of tares, John the Baptist and Christ both use fruit trees as an example of tares.
And the tares are bad, spiritually evil.
The words of Christ below is why tares cannot turn into wheat as they can not bear good fruit.

Mathew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.


20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You​

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


How come Christ never knew the tares? Well, He did not plant them as the good seed in God's field the world
And the tares are the bad trees who bear bad fruit.
 
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Davidpt

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Well you just pointed out why some people do see a coming and a harvest in 70AD.

Shouldn't that mean the tares among the wheat issue has been fully resolved? That there are no more tares among the wheat? That there are no more unbelieving Jews in the world if unbelieving Jews and tares are one and the same? As if reality agrees though, that as of 70 AD unbelieving Jews became extinct, they no longer exist in the world, not even in our day and time.

Surely when the harvest happens, the tares meant will no longer exist among the living ever again from that point forward. If nothing else, at least come from the perspective of reality when deciding how to interpret this parable. Reality says that unbelieving Jews still exist, are still among the living, even in our day and time. And that the parable plainly, thus undeniably, teaches that who the tares represent, when the harvest arrives, there will never be these tares among the living ever again for forever.

My view is that the tares are meaning false Christians in the body of Christ, not all of the lost in general. Which then means the millennium after the 2nd coming is still possible since it is only the false Christians that will no longer be among the living, and not all of the lost as well.
 
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grafted branch

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Surely when the harvest happens, the tares meant will no longer exist among the living ever again from that point forward. If nothing else, at least come from the perspective of reality when deciding how to interpret this parable. Reality says that unbelieving Jews still exist, are still among the living, even in our day a time. And that the parable plainly, thus undeniably, teaches that who the tares represent, when the harvest arrives, there will never be these tares among the living ever again for forever.
Sure, so do you place the tares and wheat getting separated after Satan’s little season? Or do you see the tares existing throughout the millennium and Satan’s little season?
 

grafted branch

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And that the parable plainly, thus undeniably, teaches that who the tares represent, when the harvest arrives, there will never be these tares among the living ever again for forever.
I see the tares being sown as a one time event, then Satan went his way. That sowing took place prior to the cross and those literal people were separated, never to exist again among the wheat.