Can a tare become saved?

[Davidpt]

I agree not everyone is in the kingdom of God. Here’s how I see it …

If there was a harvest in 70AD then you can have chief priest and Pharisees being removed at that time. Interestingly enough they are also said to be of their father the devil in John 8:44 and the tares are called children of the wicked one in Matthew 13:38.

We know from Matthew 13:37 that word “soweth” is present tense so the Son of man sowed prior to the cross and it would be plausible to say Satan also sowed prior to the cross then went his way.

That would allow for the tares to enter the kingdom, prior to the cross, and have John 3:5 be true after the cross. Everything can fit together and make sense but I know not everyone will agree with me.

Now if only you could leave 70 AD out of some of these things. 70 AD can't explain everything.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Do you think it’s possible for God to lie?

Do you think Jesus lied when He said all things are possible with God in Matthew 19:26

That tis the question

The devil thinks all that Jesus said was lies because he is corrupt.
The devil continually seeks to deceive people in to discounting what Jesus said as being lies.

Now if only you could leave 70 AD out of some of these things. 70 AD can't explain everything.

That's preterism for ya

 

[grafted branch]

That's preterism for ya

All things are possible with God, including preterism.

 

[Dash RipRock]

All things are possible with God, including preterism.

God's Word does not teach preterism so that would not be possible.

Unless one wants to claim God lies in His Word

 

[grafted branch]

God's Word does not teach preterism so that would not be possible.

Unless one wants to claim God lies in His Word

God’s word doesn’t teach the tares are saved so that would be impossible unless you want to claim God lies.

Do you see where this is going?

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

You have things backwards. Judas is the son of perdition and that he is lost. In 2 Thessalonians 2 the 'Wicked' is meaning the man of sin, it is meaning the son of perdition. Look up the Greek word used for 'Wicked' in that chapter. In not one verse where that same Greek word is used elsewhere, is it ever being used in regards to satan.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Wicked
anomoV
anomos
an'-om-os
from a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and nomoV - nomos 3551; lawless, i.e. (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication, a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:--without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.

The following verses are where that same Greek word can be found.

1 Cor 9:21, 1 Ti 1:9, 2 Pe 2:8. 2 Th 2:8

Also compare 2 Thessalonians 2:8 with the following.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


This----whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth--with this---And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Besides Satan being the son of perdition,the antichrist is referred to as that also.

Judas,as we read,was Satan possessed. Judas was not therefore responsible for those actions by the Devil within.

Jesus implored the Father to forgive them,all responsible,for his crucifixion. That would include possessed Judas and after Satan left him.

Judas repented. And then cursed himself out of guilt by hanging himself. This does not mean God abandoned him to damnation. Judas took what we call communion.

And moments later when Jesus handed Judas the piece of bread to show the Disciples whom among them would betray him, that is when Satan entered.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You prove without a doubt that it matters zero whether or not one can keep their emotions contained. Clearly, you can. No one denies that. But even so, still there are many of us that don't agree with you about everything you conclude. There are some in here that don't agree with anything you conclude. I'm not one of them since there are some things I agree with you about, just not everything.

If, in your mind, one that can keep their emotions contained, that this is because the truth is on their side, does that then mean anyone that can't keep their emotions contained, that even though they are arguing some of the same things you are arguing, thus agree with you, truth is not on their side because they are at times unable to keep their emotions contained when arguing with others?

The point is, insults, and other appeals to emotion are not rational, objective arguments.

 

[lforrest]

In Matthew 13:24-30 we have the parable of the weeds, then in verses 36-43 we have the explanation of the parable.

The Amil view has Satan bound from deceiving and keeping people in darkness during a current millennium. If Satan is bound and unable to deceive then it would seem to be possible for an undeceived tare to recognize they are a tare and accept Jesus as their savior. However in Matthew 13:40 the tares are gathered and burned in the fire.

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

So I’m asking a simple question, can a tare become saved? And a follow up question, how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?

We do not know if someone is a wheat plant or a tare. That is one of the points of the parable, they look identical when immature. So they can not be separated prematurely.

But when mature the weight of the grains of the wheat stalk cause it to dip low, while the tare stands proud. The fruit of the tare is a poison that causes drunkenness. But the fruit of the wheat is good to eat.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Is that your impression of what "a great chain" represents"?

My point is about what a bottomless pit represents. And anyone who knows that a person thrown into a pit is unable to interact with anyone else.

I see Satan's little season as a time where Satan leads a global spiritual attack that unites unbelievers against the church. This results in the mass persecution and apostasy as well as the increase in deception and wickedness that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24:9-13 and that Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2:3-12.

John is talking about a local event, which takes place "at the camp of the saints and the beloved city." In other words, Satan is bringing armies to attack Jerusalem, where the saints and Jesus are located.

What I said was in regards to Premills in general, and this is what I said: "So, they think him being bound means he is unable to deceive at all and is completely incapacitated." and you just confirmed that same understanding here, so how was I not listening?

The structure of our conversation is a dialog between individuals. When you constantly tell us what "Premills" think, you dishonor us.

 

[grafted branch]

And moments later when Jesus handed Judas the piece of bread to show the Disciples whom among them would betray him, that is when Satan entered.

This doesn’t prove whether Judas was saved or not but I have come across the idea that Satan entered Judas twice. You might find it interesting.

In Luke 22:3 Satan enters Judas prior to the Last Supper. In John 13:27, at the Last Supper Satan entered Judas after the sop. In John 13:5, prior to the Last Supper, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples (including Judas) and in vs 11 Jesus said ye are not all clean because He knew who should betray Him.

Putting these verses together we could say Satan entered Judas, Jesus washed Judas’ feet which removed Satan, and then Satan entered Judas a second time when the sop was dipped.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It referred to John 17:12

Judas was not lost.

The son of perdition is Satan.

Did you read John 17:12?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So, you are saying you think that Satan was given to Jesus and was lost?

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

This doesn’t prove whether Judas was saved or not but I have come across the idea that Satan entered Judas twice. You might find it interesting.

In Luke 22:3 Satan enters Judas prior to the Last Supper. In John 13:27, at the Last Supper Satan entered Judas after the sop. In John 13:5, prior to the Last Supper, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples (including Judas) and in vs 11 Jesus said ye are not all clean because He knew who should betray Him.

Putting these verses together we could say Satan entered Judas, Jesus washed Judas’ feet which removed Satan, and then Satan entered Judas a second time when the sop was dipped.

Sounds plausible,yes. Great post.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Did you read John 17:12?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So, you are saying you think that Satan was given to Jesus and was lost?

I go by the text. None of them.
That refers to all his Disciples.
But the son of perdition. Which is separate from the Disciples given Satan,the son of perdition,was lost already.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's false doctrine.
Guess you never heard of the Galatians who the Lord said thru the Apostle Paul that they had fallen from grace.

Why did you just post some of what I said while misrepresenting what I said? This is what I said:

It can't both be true that once a person is saved they can't lose their salvation and once a person is saved they can lose their salvation.

You only quoted the part that says "once a person is saved they can't lose their salvation" as if that is what I was saying I believe. Why did you do that? That isn't what I believe. I was just saying that no one can both believe that and also believe that once a person is saved they can lose their salvation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I go by the text. None of them.
That refers to all his Disciples.
But the son of perdition. Which is separate from the Disciples given Satan,the son of perdition,was lost already.

It says none of them, but one, not none of them at all. That means all of them were not lost except one. Only the disciples are being referred to there, not Satan.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

It says none of them, but one, not none of them at all. That means all of them were not lost except one. Only the disciples are being referred to there, not Satan.

None of them. Because all that God gave him he kept. Which is like when his Gospel tells us,of all the Father gives him he shall lose none.

Jesus knew the son of perdition was there. Which is why after the soo Jesus said,go and do what you must do.

How otherwise would we be saved through the sacrificial death of Jesus?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

None of them. Because all that God gave him he kept. Which is like when his Gospel tells us,of all the Father gives him he shall lose none.

Jesus knew the son of perdition was there. Which is why after the soo Jesus said,go and do what you must do.

How otherwise would we be saved through the sacrificial death of Jesus?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It clearly says none of them who were given to Jesus were lost except for one. The rest were not lost.

Can you paraphrase the verse for me so I can see exactly how you read it? I don't know how "none of them is lost, but the son of perdition" can possibly apply to Satan. Jesus surely was not saying "none of them is lost, but Satan".

 

[PinSeeker]

All Christians should remain in the faith and """ present your body as a living sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service""", but if this is taught as....>"How to keep from losing your salvation" or "How to stay saved"...... then the person teaching this, is a Legalistic heretic, who does not understand God's Grace as a "GIFT".

"The GIFT of Salvation".

Hm. Not even sure what would compel you to make such a comment. I would just say that it is certainly possible to misunderstand these things with and not be a "legalistic heretic," Grace and peace to you, Behold.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

It clearly says none of them who were given to Jesus were lost except for one. The rest were not lost.

Can you paraphrase the verse for me so I can see exactly how you read it? I don't know how "none of them is lost, but the son of perdition" can possibly apply to Satan. Jesus surely was not saying "none of them is lost, but Satan".

Why couldn't Jesus say that?

Satan is eternally damned.
Would Jesus share communion with Satan?

He told Satan,in Judas,to go and do what he must do. Must do.

If Judas was dead set on betraying Jesus to death,would he repent?
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

Judas didn't know Satan was within him. But Jesus did.

 

[Behold]

it is certainly possible to misunderstand these things with and not be a "legalistic heretic,"

Actually if a person is actually a Christian.... its not possible to misunderstand The Cross of Christ and God's Grace and not be a Legalistic Heretic, = as that is what causes it.

"my people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE".

And that does not mean....."the defininiton of NT words". or "i can read the verses".........it means the Spiritual REVELATION is missing.

Let me show you how this works.

Lets get a room, and bring these ChristianityBoard Forum members into it...........maybe 20 of them.....and 3 Mods.

I'll pick one Mod, and 4 members.

i'll ask them.

How are you saved,??? and hand them the Microphone.

2 will say...>>>"i was water baptized"

1 will say...."i keep the commandments and confess my sin"

1 will say......."I hold unto my faith"

1 will say.. " 40-yrs ago I trusted in Jesus to get me to heaven, and i only still do".


See that?

One person understands : Their SALVATION

Welcome to a "Christian" online forum. (All of them)........where you can't even find 11 people on it, who literally understand The Blood of Jesus as the New Covenant, or The Cross of Christ as God's Grace... or "justificaton by faith".....or "The GIFT of Salvation".

The good news is........ those on this forum who do understand their salvation...... keep this forum from turning into a Hyper Calvinism or "cult of Mary" orgy, most of the time.