Can a tare become saved?

[PinSeeker]

View attachment 62330

LOL! Right back atcha, NTR. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Dash RipRock]

It can't both be true that once a person is saved they can't lose their salvation and once a person is saved they can lose their salvation.

That's false doctrine. You're welcome.

I'm in the minority of Christ followers that believe that Jesus can and will save ALL in order to reconcile "all things" back to our Father in Heaven.

That's the false doctrine of universalism and not accepting all of God's Word is how one becomes a universalist

“6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. ”
Exodus 34:6-7 KJV
Unfeigned Bible in.6

Deuteronomy 24:16 - The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin

Deuteronomy 1:39 - Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

2 Kings 14:6 - But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin

Ezekiel 18:19 - Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live

Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself

We were NOT born with a sin nature!
when God placed a person in the mother's womb... the Lord did not put sin in to them making them to be born as sinners.

What some are referring to as "sin nature" are the habits we all take on as a result of living in a world full of sin and darkness and habitually they become full of "sin nature" because they live in sin continually walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit.

God did not make anyone to be a sinner when He created them... but satan claims He did

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We all became sinners AFTER we were born so God is holding each person accountable for their own sin, not for Adam's sin

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Here again.... death (separation from God) passed upon all men because all have sinned not because of what Adam did

And He never said tares can become wheat

That came out of false reformed theology that claims God decided who would be saved before the foundation of the world and it was his will for all others to go to hell longer before they were ever even born

It's possible according to God's Word for all to get saved because all things are possible with God

Just because God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is preventing most people from getting saved as the devil's false teachers claim

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree, and since in reality a tare weed never becomes wheat in a farmers field, it would seem best to say the parable should be understood from God’s perspective.

Here’s another problem to consider though, in Matthew 13:39-42 at the harvest the angels gather the tares out of His kingdom and they are burned with fire. In John 3:5 no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and Spirit. The tares are sown by Satan and removed from the kingdom at the harvest yet a tare can’t enter the kingdom to begin with unless they are born of water and Spirit.

What do you make of this apparent contradiction?

That is easily resolved by looking at Matthew 13:38 to see that the tares are not children of His kingdom and only the wheat are children of His kingdom and by looking at this similar parable:

Matthew 13:47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Since Matthew 13:38 specifically says that the tares are not in His kingdom, then there is no reason to interpret Matthew 13:39-42 as if it's talking about taking the tares out of His kingdom. That causes Matthew 13:39-42 to contradict Matthew 13:38.

These verses are saying the same thing:

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 13:49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous...

Verse 41 is not saying that the tares ("them which do iniquity") are in His kingdom and taken out of it. No, that contradicts Matthew 13:38. What verse 41 is saying is that at the end of the age the tares (the wicked) will be separated from the wheat (the righteous). They represent the children of the wicked one (Matt 13:38) and will be gathered or separated out from the children of His kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's false doctrine. You're welcome.

Right. That's what I was saying. LOL.

 

[PinSeeker]

...some are more spiritually minded, which leads them to seek God…

Disagree. Here is what Paul says, quoting from Isaiah 45 and Ezekiel 18 in doing so:

"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.... There is no fear of God before their eyes... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." (Romans 3:10-18, 23)​

This is the natural human condition. It's... pretty awful. But thanks be to God, this is what we've been saved from. And... if we have been saved ~ born again of the Spirit ~ then we will seek God. And God says, through Jeremiah, to the Israelite exiles in Babylon ~ and this has direct implications for us, too:

"You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile." (Jeremiah 29:13-14).​

And Jesus says:

"...seek and you will find..." (Matthew 7:7; Luke 11:9).​

​

However... <smile> Those who have the Spirit will be spiritually minded. As Paul says:

"...no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we (Christians, of course) have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God" (1 Corinthians 2:11-12).​

Sin has very far-reaching effects and none of them have good outcomes.

Absolutely. Even what you say here is a vast understatement.

God never wanted us to suffer, but in Satan’s world, pain and suffering are the ‘norm’.

This is why Christ came, to undo all the damage, and to restore life for those who lost it under so many different circumstances. God never intended this life for us, but it was the only way he could show us where disobedience leads us. He tried to tell us, but we had to have a first hand demonstration of where disobedience takes those who think they can do things better their way.

Yeah, you're preaching to the choir, here, AJ. <smile> But yes, absolutely.

Who can look at the state of the world today and not dread the future?... Things have to get worse before they get better….so we must be patient. God has it all in hand….we can trust that when the time is right, he will act to bring satan and all who follow him to justice.

Absolutely. But there is no need for pessimism, even in the face of all this, right? As Paul says:

"...we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose... If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him graciously give us all things? ... we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us...t neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:29-39).​

And as the writer of Hebrews says:

"...since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the Founder and Perfecter of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:1-2).​

​

Grace and peace to you!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That came out of false reformed theology that claims God decided who would be saved before the foundation of the world and it was his will for all others to go to hell longer before they were ever even born

It's possible according to God's Word for all to get saved because all things are possible with God

Just because God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is preventing most people from getting saved as the devil's false teachers claim

Your whole thinking on this doctrine is very skewed and based on false premises.

YOu hold to the extreme Arminiast view of free will.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We know weeds can’t literally turn into wheat plants, which would seem to be a major point of the parable, but that would require a Premil view of Satan not being bound and the tares continuing to be deceived and in darkness until the harvest.

That is a very astute observation.
> It seems that tares are reprobate, irredeemable hosts that God has already "given them over to a debased mind", let them go.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Romans 1:18-25

To be reprobate means God has already judged you in this life ... He gave you over to your debased mind! "Become futile in their thoughts", means you are doomed - doesn't it? These folks are without excuse, having been given ample opportunities to repent _ to be fair _ but in reality have been born of a different seed, like weeds.
>> The question is: Were we ever tares? I don't think so. I have to say that even before we were born, we were chosen.
I can say about myself, no I was never a tare. I was not someone inside the Church pretending to be or disguised as a Christian, but working for Satan in a destructive way. No, I just said no to Jesus for 25 years and at 35 years old, said yes.
> I could be wrong about this, maybe tares can be miraculous changed into wheat? I just don't think so. Why? Because God is sovereign, has a perfect plan, is the AUTHOR of our faith and the Body is therefore finite, saved nit subject to futulity.
> Scriptures say "narrow is the way to salvation ... wide is the way to destruction". We must conclude that narrow is less than 50% ( likely 1/3 scriptures implies). The rest ... reprobate.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Your whole thinking on this doctrine is very skewed and based on false premises.

That's what the devils keep claiming as they cannot stand the Truth of Gold's Word.

Right. That's what I was saying. LOL.

Glad to be able to help out.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Glad to be able to help out.

LOL. No offense, but you were no help at all. You first misrepresented my view. I then corrected you with what I actually said. You then said what I actually said was false doctrine and that is what I was saying. I was saying that the view I was describing was false. And you agree.

 

[Dash RipRock]

LOL. No offense, but you were no help at all. You first misrepresented my view. I then corrected you with what I actually said. You then said what I actually said was false doctrine and that is what I was saying. I was saying that the view I was describing was false. And you agree.

That's what happens when you blow things all out of proportion.

It's kinda like people saying you didn't quote all the Lord said about something

So, sometimes the thing to do is to post a link to the entire Word of God as to cover everything